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_Zirath_ OP t1_j2lztj1 wrote

Why do you think I'm making the post? My aim is to spur a subset of people (naturalists/atheists) to reconsider and take in the big picture. Seems to have had an effect on atheists I know personally.

Frankly, I don't understand your last point. It doesn't look like you're aiming to be helpful or charitable though, so I guess that's disappointing.

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Imminent_Extinction t1_j2m22ag wrote

You seem intent on using a sense of despair to evangelize and based on your choice of words I'd guess you're generally indifferent to (or in denial of) most modern problems, "burying your head in the sand in the face of a massive tsunami" as it were. But that's not the point.

The point is your claim that "people typically want to make positive political changes in the world before they die, leave the world a better place for their children, invent something that will make a mark on history, etc." doesn't account for the willfull ignorance people have for the impersonal and distant. And your claim that "positive utility gained now must be measured against the looming reality of infinite meaninglessness and nothingness that the future promises" isn't an argument to abandon Naturalism, it's just a statement of fact, and one with little weight because that future isn't personal or immediate.

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_Zirath_ OP t1_j2rwfqy wrote

"based on your choice of words I'd guess you're generally indifferent to (or in denial of) most modern problems, "burying your head in the sand in the face of a massive tsunami" as it were."

You assume wrong. I am neither indifferent to nor in denial of such things.

"The point is your claim that "people typically want to make positive political changes in the world before they die, leave the world a better place for their children, invent something that will make a mark on history, etc." doesn't account for the willfull ignorance people have for the impersonal and distant."

I agree that naturalists are often ignorant of the implications of their worldview. Again, that's why I'm making this argument- I think naturalists should follow their worldview to its conclusions and take a long hard look at whether that's something they want to sit on or perhaps instead endeavor to disprove.

"And your claim that "positive utility gained now must be measured against the looming reality of infinite meaninglessness and nothingness that the future promises" isn't an argument to abandon Naturalism, it's just a statement of fact"

I agree it's a statement of fact, on naturalism (i.e. if that worldview is held to be true). And this conclusion should compel people to be dissatisfied with naturalism, not cling to it proudly.

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[deleted] t1_j2uto1i wrote

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BernardJOrtcutt t1_j314z7s wrote

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julebrus- t1_j2p52bc wrote

Your aim is for people to accept a comfortable lie instead of an uncomfortable fact.

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