Naturath t1_j2pomn1 wrote
Reply to comment by _Zirath_ in Atheistic Naturalism does not offer any long-term pragmatic outcome of value when compared to Non-Naturalist views, such as Theism by _Zirath_
>A problem for naturalists, some of whom had said as much to me personally.
Ah yes, the famous appeal to vague, uncounted and unspecified, yet unquestionable persons. Famous among populists and grade schoolers. Again, you are the one making the claim that such an idea is both problematic and also single-handedly capable of subjecting an entire belief system to “infinite negative utility,” something you continue to poorly define and justify.
You continue to prescribe some kind of divine purpose as inherent to meaning. Whether you attach objective before that word is redundant; meaning inherently is a subjective conception and not something you can arbitrarily revoke from others.
>If you’ve got a problem with a specific premise…
I have a problem with practically all your premises and their foundation on unwritten yet unavoidable preconceptions. That you somehow have managed to read through multiple paragraphs without acknowledging this is astonishing.
>This is how arguments are tested.
Your replies to others as well as to me have constantly dodged the substance of their criticisms while continuing to assert the same dubious premises. You seem less inclined to test your claims rather than defend them as unquestionably true. I speculate publicly on your motivations because you display them nakedly through your replies.
As one raised in the church myself, your argument makes a mockery of both philosophical theology and general logical debate.
_Zirath_ OP t1_j2puoy3 wrote
"Ah yes, the famous appeal to vague, uncounted and unspecified, yet unquestionable persons."
I'm just relating my experience. Why you feel so sensitive as to interpret what I said here as an argument is beyond me.
"Again, you are the one making the claim that such an idea is both problematic and also single-handedly capable of subjecting an entire belief system to “infinite negative utility,” something you continue to poorly define and justify."
Actually I have a whole post explaining my reasoning. If you're still confused, feel free to ask for clarification like an honest commenter in good faith discussion would.
"You continue to prescribe some kind of divine purpose as inherent to meaning."
I literally said that nowhere. And my argument doesn't rely at all on my theism.
"Whether you attach objective before that word is redundant"
Wrong word and wrong statement. The word is "existentially." Naturalism is an existentially dead-end worldview.
"meaning inherently is a subjective conception and not something you can arbitrarily revoke from others."
I don't believe that's true, but it's not really relevant since I am trying to make the same point: on naturalism, meaning is not objective.
"I have a problem with practically all your premises and their foundation on unwritten yet unavoidable preconceptions."
That's the definition of a vague and unspecified rebuttal if I've ever heard one, folks.
"I speculate publicly on your motivations because you display them nakedly through your replies"
This is almost humorous at this point, since I made my motivations quite clear already: I am a Christian who is here to attack naturalism and see how the philosophy community on reddit responds to an argument I like to use. So far, I have found the experience invigorating and confirming of some thoughts of mine.
"As one raised in the church myself, your argument makes a mockery of both philosophical theology and general logical debate."
Ok, feel free to get specific and discuss something of substance whenever you'd like.
Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments