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ExceptEuropa1 t1_j2t2yow wrote

I think some people are talking in the comments about the caricature of pessimism, instead of the "hopeful pessimism" that the article tries to advance.


Wilddog73 t1_j2t7tv0 wrote

Is there really a difference between hopeful pessimism and what I'd call realistic optimism?

If not, then I think we've been going over it already.


-FoeHammer t1_j2vcljo wrote

Well for starters, calling yourself a pessimist makes one feel more edgy and cool.


jason_square t1_j2ux0qs wrote

I guess there is a danger in optimism. You might lose your edge, relax too much if you dont have a fire under you


oramirite t1_j2vhfag wrote

Kinda feels like that pales in comparison the the effect that cynicism has. When you lose your ability to trust others, you isolate, you gain less experiences, and ultimately you aren't a part of society anymore. Those folks shouldnt have the same effect on public policy that people who still have that ability to care have. In a community, the idea of "caring" becoming some sort of distorted lens is a very low risk. Checks and balances are prevalent.


Murky_Caterpillar874 t1_j2yzh57 wrote

Skeptical realism, or even merely not attempting to put a positive spin on almost everything, seems to look like dark pessimism to the frozen smile crowd, and that last is the stance the Big Corporate Media both fronts and encourages. That theirs is a command and control effort primarily is obvious. It is not pessimistic to observe that it is. It's objectively there.


oramirite t1_j2za2kc wrote

It absolutely isn't objective at all. Your post is filled with personal judgements. "Frozen smile crowd"? That implies a lot, and is a sort of "I'm better than you" mentality that overall just seems to lead to narcissism. Overall there should be a balance. I think that trying to apply any of these thoughts patterns wholistically is wrong though. Ultimately, skeptical realism is mostly helpful in situations of repeated issues. One cannot predict the future, and one cannot truly know what's in the heart of anyone else. This is why, as a whole, trust is so important to maintain, because without trust in other people there is no life. We need other humans to survive, and that resource becomes unavailable the more cynical you are.


jason_square t1_j2vk3mb wrote

And you will find it that once you become cynical, and say someone badly betrays you, you will have trouble going back to naive optimism

But you are right, and cynicism shouldnt have the last word


oramirite t1_j2vma7p wrote

This completely depends on the person, their collective situations, and their outlook.

EDIT: Sorry, I didn't mean to come in hot like this was a debate or anything. This can be very hard. But yes, ultimately you can't let cynicism take over, because it's the death knell. Cynicism is to solidify your expectations as nothing. You won't be able to authentically interact with any humans after that.


gtx670 t1_j3kf8tq wrote

How do you know, are you a cynic?


ddrcrono t1_j31cxrg wrote

I would say that in this case "pessimism" is a strange word choice meant more to get the reader's attention than to accurately describe what is just having a reasonable and balanced view based on the information before you. One could similarly argue for "cautious optimism" and come up with something that ends up sounding more or less the same.

When it comes to matters of optimism, pessimism and so on, I lean more on the virtue ethics angle, in that a balanced approach is what's most logical - you have to be able to see both positive and negative possibilities and realities to come to a realistic outlook. (That said, I find that in application, people who label themselves "realists" are usually closet pessimists, so I don't use that term).