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AnAnonAnaconda t1_j4lxbbw wrote

Reply to comment by nixsensei in /r/philosophy Open Discussion Thread | January 16, 2023 by BernardJOrtcutt

Our thoughts and actions are either causally determined or the subjects of randomness (or a combination).

If our thoughts and behaviours are entirely causally determined, then calling our will(s) "free" is misleading. We wouldn't be free to deviate from what we were always absolutely bound to do, maybe unbeknownst to us since we're unaware of all the causes involved.

On the other hand, if our thoughts and behaviours are subject to some randomness, well, to that extent they're outside of our control, since randomness is beyond our control by definition. If our thoughts and actions are "free" from the causal chain (since they're simply random) they're outside the influence of a will.

And to the extent that they are within the influence of a will, they're part of the chain of cause and effect, stretching back before any of us were born. Very much not "free" of this long chain.

TL;DR : If it is a will, it isn't "free". And to the extent that it's "free", it's nothing to do with a will.

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Perrr333 t1_j4sgsvr wrote

I take the view that "free will" is poorly defined, roughly echoing Strawson's compatibilist view (if you are interested in this you MUST read Strawson's 'Freedom and Resentment' [1962], one of the greatest philosophy lectures ever which changed the minds of many in the field; it's only 15 pages!). What matters to me is 'choice'. Now, seeing as I also hold a materialist view of the brain-mind issue, and a materialist view of metaphysics, I fully accept that all things we typically call 'choices' are causally (fully deterministically or partially randomly) determined by the material world, included both brain activity and everything else. We slide between different definitions of choice in everyday language, considering choices free-er when for example not taken under duress. But these definitions of choice are slid between precisely because we wish them to align with our understanding of ethics; specifically, what a moral choice is and when a choice should or shouldn't be punished. And this is all above board because even though there isn't some external presence disconnected from the material controlling the mind, nevertheless choices are being made within brains. Choices you make are yours because they stem from your brain's activity, and this activity IS you. Note that if you read Strawson's paper, he makes his arguments without appealing to materialism; it's just easier and quicker for me to use it because I believe it.

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nixsensei t1_j4v05j9 wrote

Thank you for the reference.

I will have look.

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