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salTUR t1_j677s3z wrote

Reply to comment by VersaceEauFraiche in Cosmic nihilism, existential joy | Human consciousness, and our need for meaning in a meaningless world, is the source of both tragic pessimism and the intense joy we take in life. by IAI_Admin

At the risk of potentially sounding like an early 70's hippy pseudo philosopher . . .

I feel like anyone who thinks that life is inherently meaningless needs to unplug from social media and withdraw as much as they can from the modern machine. Maybe they should even try some psychedlic substances (in a responbile way). The notion of human life being inherently "meaningless" is a thoroughly modern idea, and it's exacerbated by our consumerist tendencies toward excessive (or even exclusive) digital interaction.

Before the advent of existentialism, you would be the odd-one-out if you posited that life had no inherent meaning. The subjective life experience is so full of inherent meaning. The only way it's not is if you believe in a mind-body duality (a la Descarte) that separates the subjective observer from the objective observed. In truth, our subjective minds are a part of objective reality. What you feel matters. All you'll ever have is what you feel. Just because we can't find an objective "proof" that the universe was made specifically for mankind doesn't mean the subjective experience of that universe is automatically devoid of intrinsic meaning. The more we distance ourselves from a natural state of being, the more compromised of meaning our subjective experience becomes.

I believe nihilism is only explicable when viewed as a product of the modern dynamic - Baudrillard's "simulacra and simulation" thesis. We're so thoroughly distracted from a natural state of being that we have spent centuries now bending over backwards looking for a reason for existing when a reason for existing was never required. The universe is not a question that needs to be answered! The universe simply is. And so are we.

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Maximus_En_Minimus t1_j6836do wrote

Persoanlly from several of my psychedelic experiences I came to the conclusion that existence has no intrinsic meaning or purpose. And - while in the West you are correct: you would be the odd one out if you believed as much before the advent of social media - in the East, Hinduism and Buddhism, perhaps Maya, especially the idea of Sūnyata, would indicate meaninglessness.

I hold now more to the notion, less of Intrinsic meaning, but of Intricate meaning: that meanings and purposes are suspended, and substantiated by their relationship to one another. This at least gives me the clarity to investigate the subfocal valences affecting my behaviours.

I think the difference between Modern Nihilism and Spiritual Nihilism can be grounded in the above: the former is a lack of participation with life and relationships to others, which would have interwoven into one another, leading the person to literally feel empty or lacking; the latter is a realisation of relational interwoveness which allows the person to disentangle and detach themselves egoistically from fictional construals - such as ambitions, expectations, reactions, hate - which often lead to suffering.

While I agree that social media has ostensively sucked meaning from people’s lives; I also think it is due to what I coin as vacuity: the distance and separation between things, increasing time to arrive, such as a relationship or even a gym, leading to alienation and eventually emptiness.

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lizzolz t1_j67k46t wrote

Why does mind-body dualism make life meaningless?

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salTUR t1_j68xf6w wrote

I don't think mind-body duality makes life meaningless by itself, I just think it helps create the conditions for nihilism. It causes human beings to think of their subjective experiences as something separate and removed from the rest of reality even though those experiences are as inherent to reality as anything else. It's easy to drop into nihilism when the fundamental framework you use to think about your place in the world is built on the assumption that you're somehow removed from it. Descarte's mind-body duality is just another aspect of modernity that further removed the Western World from the innate, transcendent experience of being. Seeking objectivity in all things inhibits our ability to simply experience reality.

Jose Ortega says it best: "I am I and my circumstance."

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lizzolz t1_j6c96pn wrote

Interesting take. For me, mind-body dualism conjures up anything but nihilism. It suggests to me the excitement of the possibility that not everything can be described in materialist terms, though that may be incorrect. There are tons of arguments both for and against. But it's damn cool to ponder that perhaps consciousness exists outside that pink organ in the vault of our skull.

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