Bryant Street Market in Highland Park is doing it right.

There are a few independent stores that deserve recognition here: Northside: Tom Fridays Market; East Side: Squirrel Hill Market; Bloomfield: Line Verde Green Market; West Hills: Sil’s; South Hills: Ruthfred Market.

Then you have Kuhn’s (not a Bodega, but independent); and then smaller places like Mayfly Market (Arch St), Dylmato’s (Hazelwood), Heisler’s McMurray (though the family owns several Foodlands around town), Community Grocery, IGA including Ferri’s, and then there are numerous ethnic grocers like Pitaland, Labriola’s, Little Tokyo, Panda, Lotus, New Young’s Oriental, Salem’s, Patel Brothers, Kiev Market and Nataliya’s European Grocery.

There are numerous other Middle Eastern and Asian grocers, and other neighborhood stores scattered about underserved neighborhoods like The Hill District, Lincoln Larimer, Wilkinsburg, McKees Rocks and more, but many just have snack type foods which are grab and go for those buying cigarettes and playing the lottery.

GE has sadly done a good job shutting down local grocers from both a geographic and inventory perspective, but they’ve also prevented welcome competition like Wegmans and Kroger from moving in.

Luckily, places like the Squirrel Hill Market (from imported butters, local cheeses, to local and regional PA brands including Middleswarth and PSU ice cream), Tom Fridays (last full service butcher/corner grocery in the city), and Linea Verde (only rue green grocer in town) have sufficiently different products (in addition to staples) than GE, Foodland, Shop n Save, et al, and worthwhile seeking out if you want that Bodega-like experience.

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What do you mean what would it take? It takes buying stuff from the little shops. I primarily shop at places like that. Don't be surprised that the local shop you buy a single san pellegrino from once a week closes, when you throw all of your money at aldi and giant eagle and costco

I think we’re making the same points here. When I say “what will it take” I mean to get these places back in areas where they’re needed. Me personally, shopping at places like these because I want to support local businesses won’t make one magically appear on North Ave unfortunately even though there’s a significant need. I still have to get in my car and drive to them. And if it were as simple as patronizing, then there would be places all over the east end where people actively support small businesses not to mention median income and population are high. Like I said above, you had places like Tom Friday’s everywhere at a point no more than 20 years ago. Not just quirky pop ups, high margin junk stores, or specialty places. So that being the case, how do we get back to that point is my question.

There is no single cause. Some of the reasons:

Owner retires and children don’t want to take over and can’t find a buyer

Rising rents

Rising costs from distributors

Rising wages /“No one wants to work! /s”

Availability of groceries at stores like Family Dollar, RiteAid, Target. Aldi.

Inability of a corner store to compete with the above on price and or selection

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I like the word "bodega".

Reminds me of a situation where I kindly ask a young lady to take off her panties so I could see her bodega.

Groceria Merante in Oakland

One factor I haven't seen mentioned yet is grocery "haul culture".

Making lots of small, quick grocery stops through the week (preferably when you're already in the area) is conducive to shopping at multiple small stores that might not be "one-stop shops", but the United States has normalized massive grocery trips enabled by obscenely large cars and sometimes owning 1-3 extra freezers in the basement.

Small grocers tend to thrive in environments where people are shopping on foot or by bicycle multiple times per week and are not making these massive once-or-twice a month "hauls". Maybe it's just correlation, but maybe there's some causation.

East End Food Co-op. You don’t need to be a member to shop there.

Add that many of these type of markets are not permitted by zoning and if a potential owner needs a variance, NIMBYs will most likely kill it.

I think you’re spot on with what has shaped this phenomenon especially in the price conscientious middle class of Pittsburgh and probably the development of the grocery business in general, specifically as suburbs grew and these little places couldn’t keep pricing with the larger stores. However, I’d challenge the fact that there are at least 10-12 neighborhoods at this point in time with several demographics (college students, young professionals, people who live on their own) that would greatly benefit from a small one stop shop and there’s simply nothing other than a junk store or a dollar general. I’d also venture to bet you’d have people who would support them even if it is a marginal markup for product if it means they don’t have to take the time and resources to drive to the bigger stores.

Ultimately, it’s a head scratcher to see bodegas succeed in places like Buffalo, Cleveland, and other cities with comparable and even less density than Pittsburgh. Is it as simple as we were trained and forced into hop in our cars/hop on the buses to get groceries? To your point, I think we have been unfortunately. But if that were the case, you’d think you would’ve seen the same in those cities as well.

I guess my question is how can we as a city encourage and support these places like East End co-op but also the original main stays in hopes we see more people drop the junk food novelty shops and bring in produce, eggs, and things to help our neighborhoods, specifically the dense ones, become self-sufficient again.

Love the Co-op. Wish we could encourage more of these in other neighborhoods

Wegman’s isn’t cheaper

You make great points. I think the battle of rents, price of food, wages, and aging owners really play a part. Especially the Bloomfield and Shadyside cases like the ones I mentioned above. Sadly I think we’ve all just accepted Dollar General’s invading our communities. Everything has its place, but unfortunately, the most nutritious product you’re able to get from these places may be Kraft Mac n’ Cheese.

That being said, these places are thriving in places less dense and more impoverished than Pittsburgh and that’s what really makes me scratch my head. Especially within the last 20 years with how much support for self sufficient business districts have been regenerated and walking/biking within neighborhoods have come back around.

That’s besides the point, I’d also say Wegmans product selection specifically in fresh foods is significantly better quality. But ultimately, it doesn’t matter because they aren’t even allowed to enter Pittsburgh market to then price compare in the first place

I think Wegman’s knows what they are doing. They faced plenty of hurdles around Buffalo many years ago when they had to deal with Tops who had a long established homefield advantage and plenty of deep connections to local developers who controlled much of the available land.

Over time profits outweighed loyalty and Wegman’s is very established there and I’d say it has supplanted Tops entirely in the WNY market.

I feel like people imagine many of these conspiracies without appreciating how challenging it is for a grocery story to expand its footprint and supply chain.

I also wouldn’t compare a typical Wegmann’s to a regular Giant Eagle, but instead a Market District.

>However, I’d challenge the fact that there are at least 10-12 neighborhoods at this point in time with several demographics (college students, young professionals, people who live on their own) that would greatly benefit from a small one stop shop and there’s simply nothing other than a junk store or a dollar general

Oof reminds me of college.

To that point, I'd like to propose 2 additional factors:

1. Universities being real estate moguls that drive up property prices and crowd out low-margin grocery businesses.

2. Universities monopolizing the food industry with "dining halls"... to the point that many students are required to buy food from the university as a condition of their enrollment.

I'd also say that students are too overworked to cook for themselves, but that's probably highly degree-dependent.

Love BSM. Great sandwich and portion for the price. They have local favorites in the store like Millie’s.

Are some of the items more expensive then the grocery store? Sure but I would rather support an independently owned grocery store in my neighborhood than support big chains.

And just like a real bodega all the snapples are dusty

I don't know why the rumor keeps going around and around, but there is no deal, no contract, no handshake agreement, nothing that keeps Wegmans from coming into Pittsburgh (or for GE to expand elsewhere). There never has been one.

The reason Wegmans doesn't enter the Pittsburgh market is that they want their individual stores to be within 4 hours of their distribution centers OR clustered in a group of about 5 stores. Erie's two stores are a little more than 2 1/2 hours from Rochester's distribution center. North Carolina and Boston's stores are clustered. Yes, Virginia Beach is an outlier.

In order for it to make sense, Wegmans would need to open 3-5 stores in quick succession in this area to make the logistics work and be worthwhile. Wegmans only opens about 5 stores or less a year so Pittsburgh would be a full commitment. In the early 2010's Wegmans did scout out possible community locations that would make sense for their logistics (Cranberry/Robinson/Southpoint served from Rochester along I-79, or Monroeville/Hampton/Cranberry served from Pottsville along the Tpk).

Obviously, nothing came from that and I don't believe it will anytime soon. There's no indication they are expanding in this direction but the reasons for that aren't a handshake deal.

>these places are thriving in places less dense and more impoverished than Pittsburgh

The traditional food stores (supermarkets, chain convenience stores) tend to avoid impoverished areas, so the local bodegas there face less competition. And lower income folks are less likely to be able to travel to a full service grocery store. (no car, poor public transit). The lower density areas also tend to have less public transit options.

Maybe these are some of the reasons they are thriving in the cities you mentioned? In addition to the reasons I mentioned previously?

And the pandemic has increase the "haul culture" tremendously. We've learned over a two year period to buy extra because it may be out of stock next time, and also avoid having to go into a crowded store so often.

But the thing is, the co-op isn't a bodega. Considering the demographics for the area it's located, it's almost exactly the opposite.

Food Shoppe on Northumberland in Squirrel Hill. (It's gone by a few other names over the years.)

I dunno about the opposite, but it's for-sure not a bodega and it would never claim to be one. OP seems to be looking for any and all local, independent grocery stores, though.

Basing the whole point on a rumor that has never been verified by anyone, even as Wegmans expands into places like NYC and NJ that are even more territorial and corrupt with zoning and permits.

They're in like 9 states now. They've taken hold in territory all across the country that used to belong to even bigger chains than Giant Eagle. Sometimes it's not a conspiracy.

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Also it’s worth noting where Wegman’s builds. Even in their home town I think only 1 store is actually inside Rochester city limits with a couple just outside near the border.

In Buffalo they have 1 store in the city and it’s in the fancy part of town.

Wegman’s is a suburban store- not urban.

Now look at the handful of GE’s you can find in neighborhoods throughout Pittsburgh. In the city itself. They are different creatures.

I'm in Rochester now and you're going to have to explain what you mean by "thriving corner stores". I know of maybe one or two in the city, but Pittsburgh has those as well. Especially if the dividing line between "bodega" and corner store/gas station is the produce. You can get eggs and milk just about anywhere in either city.

This is very true....land price is key. Their smallest stores are the size of the Wexford Market District. Their AVERAGE store size is a little bigger than the Settler's Ridge Market District. Their biggest stores are 30% bigger than that. The cost per square foot between suburbs and city, not to mention parking and traffic flow, is very prohibitive.

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Giant Eagle is trash now. I get groceries at Trader Joe's for the same price and at far better quality

+100000000 for Tom Friday's

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I think it’s a bit of the Sheetz vs GetGo thing too. There is a philosophical difference involved when locating stores in urban settings.

Corner stores in PA can't sell booze. That's the bread-and-butter of corner stores in other states that gives them the margin and foot traffic to sell groceries. That climate is changing, with various gas stations selling beer now, but those gas stations are bars, legally. That can't be cheap to get the license for.

Minor point about Kroger, but Giant Eagle didn't keep them from moving in. Kroger used to operate in Pittsburgh but left the area completely in 1984 following a strike.

<jingle>Tops never mops. Look at their floors....</jingle>

My first job was as a Tops stock boy

I love Linea Verde! Tons of fresh produce, local dairy, honey, and eggs, and of course Gina, who will talk your ear off if you let her

And as far as I know every Giant Eagle in the city limits with the possible exception of the Shadyside market district have been supermarkets for 40 years or more. Possibly parkway center as well, which though technically in the city limits is definitely in a suburban-esque area.

You’re not going to see many new construction supermarkets in cities like Pittsburgh.

You’re obviously missing the point of the post and was stated that this isn’t about the handshake deals Giant eagle may or may not be doing to have a monopolistic hold over Pittsburgh but an understanding of why we’re missing the convenience of smaller locations for produce, milk, eggs, in Pittsburgh in our neighborhoods.

Yeah that is to my point. Wegman’s isn’t staying out if the city because of a big conspiracy.

It’s just not their business model.

That would make a lot of sense. Especially seeing Sheetz and GetGos experiment with these “neighborhood market” models. Sort of what Wawa has done in downtown Philly. And tbh if they would do that, I guess it’d help people get what they need. But it just sucks the days of the local corner stores with things you need are gone for most people. Vast majority living in the city have to hop in their car/on a bus to get their simple needs

I had a bodega on the corner when I lived on Miltenberger back in 07. It was perfect for eggs, milk, bread, they even had a small deli

Yes - with newer residential developments like Summerset at Frick Park, I don't get why they don't include a bodega and a coffee shop in the original design. Especially developments like this that advertise walkability but failed to include anything to walk to.

A large percentage of corner stores thrive on alcohol sales, which they can't do in Pennsylvania without the additional overhead of being considered a restaurant.

i love love love going there

Part of it is that our corner stores aren't allowed to sell beer, which is how most (legit) bodegas make a *lot* of their money.

Bodegas in NY do really well off their grills and deli counter, this is supported by high foot traffic

Good point. Several people have mentioned this and it would definitely ignite the interest from an owner perspective. It’d be great if PA could move beyond prohibition laws. Grocery business is time consuming no matter how big or small so it’d be great if high margins could support somehow. I think this is what we’ve seen with some of the GetGo Neighborhood markets. Granted I’m assuming if they made enough money for the company, we’d be seeing these everywhere by now

You can walk around the plan to get your steps in once you've finished driving to all your daily needs.

I think there are more than you think and many in the outlying suburbs where rent may be cheaper than in the city.

Also Covid and Covid restrictions absolutely crushed many small businesses that dealt directly to the public without a strong delivery program in place.

Jungle Jim’s is an amazing store near Cincinnati that I wish I could have closer. Anyone here ever been?

If you haven’t already, check out the Oakland film by Rick Sebak where she and her sisters are in their family store together.

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Interesting. I wonder what the number of households a small shop would need to stay viable? A shop internal to Summerset wouldn't be a destination place unless they are doing something really well, so it would depend on residents keeping it open.

The new cafe at the corner at Maryland and Walnut seems to fit this description? I wonder if they know where the customer base in coming from.

Considering that Summerset fought against having PAT bus service to the neighborhood, I doubt they'd want any retail there either.

There is also the cost of product. Suppliers like UNFI, Sysco, etc charge more per unit if it's not a sure deal like Giant Eagle or RiteAid, etc. And if it's a local product, customers don't want to admit food could cost that much (living wages, no pesticides, etc etc etc). Sorry, lot of etcs. I personally wish there was a Bryant St Market in every neighborhood, and/or dream of running my own- but I'm not made of money.

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Place is great but a lot of the produce is definitely not fresh haha