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sparksofthetempest t1_j8suv09 wrote

Anyone else noticing that the typical middle class eateries are all closing? I know it kinda began with Covid and then the understandable living wage backlash, but now with inflation it’s slowly becoming fast food or high end. Just wondering if anyone else is paying attention. No more nightclubs, no 24 hour diners, everything shut down by 9 or 10. It’s morphed into something unrecognizable for people in their 40’s and older and I just wondered if it even matters to younger people these days.

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Jazzlike_Breadfruit9 t1_j8sxdjf wrote

A lot of middle class eateries, especially chain ones aren’t that great. Covid gave people a chance to stop and ask themselves why they are wasting money at Panera. I personally either eat out either when I find a good deal (normally cheaper than making it myself) or because I want quality, not middle of the road stuff.

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69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_j8szf0x wrote

I haven't eaten in a restaurant since March 7th, 2020 (Wings Suds & Spuds). I have lost over twenty-five pounds and saved enough money to pay our student loans off early.

 
There will always be destination restaurants for special occasions, but it wouldn't be the worst thing for America if all the Max & Ermas, Paneras, and Applebees went away.

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AmishAirline t1_j8t4je3 wrote

Going out with some crispy xtra-hot garlic wings is not a bad way to go. Good choice for last meal!

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69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_j8t87cg wrote

I miss WS&S and I miss Max's Allegheny Tavern, that's about it.

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AmishAirline t1_j8u5qcy wrote

Man. . .as someone who lives in Moon and used to work on the Northside, I'm pretty sure we've crossed paths. Two of my favorite spots!

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69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_j8ugfjb wrote

I've got a lot of love for Max's. If I lived closer I'd be incredibly fat. Cheese / sausage platter would be my undoing.

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StoshBalls_3636 t1_j8t2odv wrote

Congrats on the weight loss and taking the money you saved to pay off your student loans early! I bet the combination of the weight loss and no student loans payments is better than the best burger you ever had out at a restaurant.

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junior_emo_mcgee t1_j8t69dr wrote

What do you do when your friends or family suggest a night out at a restaurant to catch up? That is really the only reason I go out to eat anymore.

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69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_j8t77au wrote

Takeout or they come over for dinner. We cook for nearly every meal.
 
The end goal of capitalism is to take your human experiences and rent them back to you, we're at the point now where people think socialization can only take place on commercial real estate. It's wild.

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LostEnroute t1_j8v3127 wrote

I like privately owned establishments as a semi-regular in my neighborhood. Knowing and liking who provides the service or cooks the food and having that basic relationship is pretty important to a healthy urban lifestyle.

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Dancing_Hitchhiker t1_j8y24l4 wrote

Same, one of the big reasons I live in the city. I like walking to spots and seeing people I know with ease.

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LostEnroute t1_j8v2g5j wrote

>I haven't eaten in a restaurant since March 7th, 2020

Does this count even diners? Sounds sad as fuck, and that's coming from someone who still masks for indoor public settings without food or drink.

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69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_j8v3eu7 wrote

It's sad as fuck if you think life isn't worth living without restaurants, our dining culture in this country is fucking bizarre.
 
My wife and I went from eating out all the time to cycling and hiking. It's fine. We aren't missing anything. The french fries don't need us, and we don't need them.

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ejcpc17888 t1_j8tqgg7 wrote

Yep I'm either getting bar food and just enjoying being out or going all out for a treat. It's pointless to spend $30 on microwaved food and a drink.

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da_london_09 t1_j8wk9bf wrote

People realizing that your standard chain Redapplechilibees are pretty fucking bland or else taste like you're eating a salt-lick.

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doodle_day_lewis t1_j8t3c17 wrote

We are millennials in our early/mid 30s and eat out 1-2 times per week, primarily at mid-price places such as Caliente, Dad’s, Ramen Bar, Kiin, and other local family-owned places. We don’t eat at places like King’s, Max & Erma’s, etc. The food just isn’t good, less beer selection, not an interesting location.

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Dancing_Hitchhiker t1_j8tusti wrote

Same situation here really, I WFH so I just need to get out and get tired of cooking. Dont really wanna waste the times I go out on meh places like that.

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sparksofthetempest t1_j8t4qjs wrote

I’m all for local eateries over chain places…but even local chains like Mad Mex are feeling the pinch.

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lydriseabove t1_j8tbd6i wrote

Mad Max also has many of the same features that the national chains have, low quality, re-heated food that isn’t worth the price.

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betucsonan t1_j8tlp2v wrote

Yeah - this is key and Mad Mex is a perfect example of this - just a clone of a national chain business model which inherently means a steady decline in quality. In the end you have what Mad Mex has been for years now: decidedly sub-par Mexican food (even by Pittsburgh standards) in a sub-par dining environment. Most of the people I know who still go to places like this have young kids, and it makes a bit of sense for them, I guess, but outside of that there really isn't any good reason to give business to these places.

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I_read_that_as_xxxx t1_j8xrdxa wrote

I can get 3 tacos from a vendor on the street in Oakland or in beechview that are 300% better at 1/4 the price. Fuck mad Mex.

0

lydriseabove t1_j8tuyv6 wrote

I couldn’t respect myself if I was served the worst quality, store bought chips at a “Mexican restaurant” and didn’t walk out before ordering. That’s just me though.

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the1999person t1_j8u2ghd wrote

Chipotle frys their own chips in restaurant every day. Why can't a sit down Mexican restaurant do that?

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the1999person t1_j8u2bri wrote

Very few things there are "cooked to order". Basically like Chipotle were they assemble your Burrito and finish it in a steamer.

Haven't been there in a few years and the wife and I had a day off together while the kids were in school. She said let's go there for lunch. Sigh, ok. I think it was a $45 lunch including an acceptable tip. Very disappointing.

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69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_j8t9zhz wrote

Every business has a life cycle, places like Mad Mex or The Sharp Edge were cool in the nineties. It isn't the nineties anymore though. Sharp Edge is already gone and Mad Mex was feeling pretty stale last time I was there.

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CL-MotoTech t1_j8u6zwi wrote

I haven't had a decent meal at Mad Mex in a decade.

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constanto t1_j8tc6um wrote

Restaurants in the lane that we think of as middle class family restaurants were always a bit of a mirage and will be a blip on dining history real soon (and that's setting aside the separate issue of the disappearing middle class). They run incredibly thin margins based on paying their entire staff next to nothing and buying the cheapest bulk agricultural products from Sysco and US Foods that they can source in order to keep their prices low enough to entice people to eat there weekly.

Now with the tightening of the labor market leading to workers commanding a higher wage and better starting positions (has anyone tried to hire a busser recently?) and inflation hitting the largest food producers in particular (notice how fancy eggs are now cheaper than the grossest factory farm eggs sometimes, just for example) places like Max and Erma's and Mad Mex literally cannot operate.

The future is going to be counter service places including food halls and destination restaurants. Now, there's still room for destination restaurants at a lower price point than a steakhouse or Noma, your various cultural restaurants and your fancy brunches and your what have you, but places where families sit down just to go and feed and to be served are already dead and just don't know it yet.

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69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_j8tgmtx wrote

> but places where families sit down just to go and feed and to be served are already dead and just don't know it yet.

 

This sort of restaurant is an invention of the Boomers' lifetimes and were massively overbuilt in the 1980s and 1990s to paper over a fading real economy.
 
We weren't making steel or widgets anymore, so we got a bunch of Chilis and PF Changs to bump the numbers and make it look like the economy was still expanding.
 
It definitely wasn't going to last forever. The average American eats 3600-3800 calories a day now. If we were to snap our fingers somehow and set everyone at a healthy weight, and ensure they only ate a the USDA allotted number of calories per day, it would completely destroy the economy.

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enraged_hbo_max_user t1_j8u2g2u wrote

“The average American eats 3600-3800 calories a day now.”

I used to wonder how this was possible given if I go over 2500 I feel like I’m going to explode.

Then I visited Lawrence, Kansas.

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Willow-girl t1_j8v9wu2 wrote

> The future is going to be counter service places including food halls and destination restaurants.

And food trucks.

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ricksebak t1_j8t0jvz wrote

I would call Max and Erma’s a typical middle class boomer restaurant. And yes, those are closing because there are less and less boomers every day. No restaurant wants to go after a demographic which is shrinking, and at best, will be gone in 15 years or whatever. They want to go after a 30 year old and hook that customer for the next 40 years.

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69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_j8t21je wrote

The whole "let's go out for dinner three times a week" thing is an anomaly in American history, it only really started in the late 1970s and will likely die when the boomers do. And that's fine.

 
Greasy spoons, diners, take-out, roach coaches, etc have always been around for the time poor, but the sit-down casual dinner places like Applebee's, Outback, etc are a pretty recent thing.

 
https://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/pub-details/?pubid=90227

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sparksofthetempest t1_j8t6buw wrote

The movie “Diner” was set in 1959, and nothing like that exists now. The point of the film was that they could all meet up late and greet the dawn together. Perkins, Denny’s, even Eat and Park all had 24 hour places prior to Covid. They’re all gone.

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Theoldquarryfoxhunt t1_j8tfzfk wrote

It's too hard to staff places for regular daylight and evening hours let alone overnights. A LOT of servers found new jobs/careers because of the pandemic. Myself included.
Sure, people came back, but losing a big chunk of the workforce you had before really took a toll. And the ones who came back didn't want to do overnights anymore. And I don't blame them. You couldn't drag me back for anything. I get PTO, sick pay and 10 holidays off a year now all paid. 25 years in restaurants and I'm not sad to see any of them go.

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69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_j8t740i wrote

Yeah, turns out that no one wants to work in a dangerous environment during a pandemic for shit pay and garbage tips. Can't say I blame them.

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SWPenn t1_j8u9hno wrote

The average 30 year old goes through a drive-thru for a bag 'o' food product.

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1ll1l1ll1l1l1l1l1ll1 t1_j8t3fwm wrote

The future is fast casual. Order at a counter, someone will bring your food out. Bus your own dishes. Refill your own drinks. Make sure you tip, though.

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livefast_dieawesome t1_j8t5psw wrote

personally, I see a lot of these places like Max & Erma's, Kings, Chili's and the like and think that I can microwave food at home myself and get the same quality without spending that much money

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drunkenviking t1_j8t0sj4 wrote

Most of these places aren't anything special though. I don't give a shit about Max and Erma's, there's nothing to differentiate them from Applebee's, or Eat n Park, or any other chain restaurant. There's been too many mediocre restaurants for too long. Maybe these closures will be an industry wake up call.

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Hoppiness83 t1_j8t5651 wrote

Except for the people out of work. They went from earning a low wage to nothing at all.

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drunkenviking t1_j8t5or0 wrote

Well sure, it sucks for them. When did I say otherwise? Am I required to prop up every shitty restaurant so that the people there can keep their jobs?

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the1999person t1_j8u3n4u wrote

You didn't fulfill your requirements to go to Ponderosa and now it's gone...

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Hoppiness83 t1_j8tyis1 wrote

Never said you did. Some people prefer chains and support those working there in the process.

You essentially stated that mediocre restaurants shouldn't be around. And when that happens, people lose jobs.

But that's obviously OK as long as it's places that you don't like.

−3

art36 t1_j8u2zhk wrote

I wrote elsewhere, but the sort of apathetic “Good” response to news like this is like being happy to see the rats fleeing off your boat without realizing it’s sinking.

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drunkenviking t1_j8udoi8 wrote

Do I need to support every shitty restaurant so that those workers can keep their jobs?

It's a serious question.

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art36 t1_j8ulyo9 wrote

No, but when the shitty restaurants close it’s still a bad sign and signals to other bad outcomes in the local economy. Reacting “oh well, who cares” shows a lack of concern to a genuinely concerning trend.

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drunkenviking t1_j8umzlw wrote

Not really, shitty restaurants close all the time. If the good ones start closing that's when it's to worry.

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art36 t1_j8uo3wl wrote

Not as rapidly as in the past couple years. That should cause legitimate concern. It points to larger issues. The dismissive nature of this is so off-putting.

Plenty of good restaurants have shuttered their doors, too, but this sub immediately attributes it to management being anti-worker.

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69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_j8wr36g wrote

Restaurants operate on razor-thin margins, and restaurants close all the time. New restaurants open all the time.
 
This is nothing new and people shrieking about it like it's the doomsday clock are overreacting.
 
The entire sector of casual sitdown-dinner-three-days-a-week places is a recent thing and it depended on cheap labor and cheap food they could mark way up. It wasn't going to last forever.

−1

DabsDoctor t1_j8wjo7c wrote

So you're basically saying capitalism's main tenant—the will of the market—is a bad thing?

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69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_j8x1pb2 wrote

The P-G and KDKA are still talking about restaurants having a hard time due to "pandemic restrictions."
 
Every single pandemic restriction on restaurants in this state went away on May 2021. Nearly two years ago.
 
Maybe these restaurant owners are just incompetent.

−1

DabsDoctor t1_j8x1w75 wrote

>Maybe these restaurant owners are just incompetent.

bingo

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Hoppiness83 t1_j8u3gc4 wrote

That's so typical of Redditors. All about themselves.

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art36 t1_j8u42uf wrote

It’s also incredibly inconsistent. The threads about downtown are a great example. Screw companies for trying to force employees to go back to the office, but also oh no Downtown is unsafe and businesses are closing down, but also we need to transform it into more affordable housing with no cars and lots of greenspace. It’s disjointed and not just unhelpful but actively detrimental to the quality of life for residents in the area.

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Hoppiness83 t1_j8u8qjx wrote

You're not permitted to be afraid to be downtown according to Redditors. That makes you a bad person.

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drunkenviking t1_j8ue0zi wrote

Typical redditor. So smug about every stupid opinion they have. Only cares about feeling superior.

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drunkenviking t1_j8udtao wrote

Answer the question. Do I need to keep supporting every single shitty restaurant so that those people can have jobs?

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Hoppiness83 t1_j8ue7k1 wrote

Nope. But advocating for the closure of places you don't like is pretty pathetic.

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JustTryingMyBestWPA t1_j8tun00 wrote

We went out to eat after work a lot when we both had to go into the office every day, and we had long commutes home. Now, I work from home 2 days a week, and my husband works from home 5 days a week. We (well, mostly he) has more time to prepare meals at home. So, we eat more dinners at home now.

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californiadamn t1_j8u99y4 wrote

Everyone I know that is 45 years or younger avoids chain businesses at all costs. They value supporting small local businesses with inventive menus and selections. There are a ton of great options. These aren’t the days of Bob Evans, Bed Bath and Beyond and malls anymore. I think that’s a wonderful thing and the small businesses are sure making their mark. Chains and generic food aren’t of any interest to most young people.

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EB2300 t1_j8wrje8 wrote

Hmm maybe because the middle class is shrinking and our country is made up of working class people barely getting by and rich douchebags who have so much money they take vacations to outer space. Can’t wait for Cons to cut Medicaid and social security, yay capitalism!

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44problems t1_j8wkt8z wrote

I wonder, have microbreweries picked up that category? They even exist in the suburbs. Feels like that's where everyone I know goes that's between fast and nice night out.

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I_read_that_as_xxxx t1_j8xr1rh wrote

I welcome this. That means there will be more indie startups and less corporations. Eventually all night mom and pop diners will arise and fill the gaps and they won't all be garbage-ass eat n parks or Denny's.

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RollTideMeg t1_j8v0okj wrote

You're going too low with the ageism. Try those below 70

−1

snkeolr t1_j8srym8 wrote

I want that tortilla soup recipe!

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pburgh2517 t1_j8sxztz wrote

I have the recipe.

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pburgh2517 t1_j8u9hba wrote

15 servings 1¼ hours 15 min prep

2 (10 1/2 ounce) cans cream of mushroom soup

2(10 1/2 ounce) cans cream of chicken soup

2 (10 1/2 ounce) cans cream of celery soup

2 (10 1/2 ounce) cans cheddar cheese soup

2 (15 ounce) cans chicken broth

1 (15ounce) can diced tomatoes

1 cup salsa (chunky)

1 (41/2 ounce) can diced green chilies

1 onion, chopped

1/4 cup fresh cilantro, chopped

4 garlic cloves, minced

1 teaspoon red chili powder

salt, to taste

pepper, to taste

4 chicken breasts, cooked and chopped

Add all to large pot. Bring to a boil and simmer 1 hour

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pburgh2517 t1_j8ua23m wrote

I should have kept reading the thread it’s the same as the one posted below.

Any slight flavor variation is probably due to brand of ingredients but this is probably as close as one can get with ingredients at home.

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sopabe6197 t1_j8wjawh wrote

Since 90% of this soup comes from a can, why doesn't Campbells just sell it already?

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ventorun t1_j8u6grk wrote

Years ago they had a dessert that was some kind of vanilla custard with strawberries and whipped cream in a tart/mini pie crust. It was like crack and it was only available for a month (probably May - like Eat N Park and their Merry Berry Month if May).

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BorderlinePaisley t1_j8t64fb wrote

I was today years old when I learned Max & Erma’s was still open.

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malepitt t1_j8tc8y2 wrote

Truth. I think the last time I went was to their location in RIDC park? Wow

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_MobyHick t1_j8u7qqv wrote

I didn't realize there were any of them still around locally either. The last one I saw was in the Detroit airport, but that was at least six years ago now. I also ate at the first Max & Erma's in Columbus. But that was last century.

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da_london_09 t1_j8wkiyt wrote

Same. I thought they had all closed down. Even the one that was by the airport was recently torn down. Probably some of the worst food I've ever had.

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maddog5981 t1_j8th7g2 wrote

Ah, that's sad. Went to this place all the time as a kid. I remember when they painted over their awesome Pittsburgh sports mural and when they got rid of their cool multicolored pipes on the ceiling. They definitely became more bland and corporate over the years. Their onion rings were always my favorite (the old thin and crispy ones). Once as a kid I wrote them a nasty letter when they switched from Pepsi to Coke, lol. And RIP to the ice cream sundae bath tub.

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hypotenoos t1_j8t2fy1 wrote

Go a couple doors down to Tepache

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Badboysrisri t1_j8v5e2t wrote

Weren’t they dragged on Reddit recently about their unsanitary kitchen?

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pooserboy t1_j8uhar0 wrote

My late father used to be a regular at the Robinson Max & Erma’s. He was good friends with all the staff. I remember we went there for my 16th or 17th birthday a few years ago and they all came out of the kitchen singing me happy birthday and gave me those fresh baked cookies on the house. Loved them all so much. I miss Max & Erma’s in general.

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James19991 t1_j8st3xg wrote

Geeze what happened to them? They used to have at least six locations in the area I feel like, and now they're down to just one.

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DarkLuc1d1ty OP t1_j8svx9y wrote

The last time I ordered takeout from Cranberry, the restaurant was severely understaffed. I heard an employee talking about how they couldn’t get anyone hired and even when I placed my order, the employee was hesitant to take another takeout that night.

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lostjules t1_j8whh71 wrote

We were there this past weekend, weirdly enough. It’s a place to meet friends who are traveling the turnpike and want to stop for lunch. The staff seemed to have an inkling, because it was pretty clear they were just going through the motions- not that I blame them.

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44problems t1_j8wmd91 wrote

That's been my experience if I try one of these places again. Service is a mess (usually due to staffing issues), wait times are long, the place isn't clean, the food is more expensive, the quality worse.

Edit: talking more in general about chain casual sit down after COVID, haven't been to M&E since pre 2020.

1

Lil_Phantoms_Lawyer t1_j8sxu8m wrote

The Monroeville location is always packed though. Idk why.

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killer_reindeer t1_j8tsaqr wrote

So is the one in Cranberry. I've been doordashing in the North Hills/Cranberry up until very recently and it was always packed on the weekends. I'd get orders from them pretty regularly, so this post is surpising to me.

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[deleted] t1_j8sxn9g wrote

[deleted]

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James19991 t1_j8sy14q wrote

I'm generally not a fan of chains, but I always thought Max and Erma's was a decent option.

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Cryptic_Skies t1_j8sz69a wrote

agreed. i dated a woman 10+ years ago who loved erma burgers. m&e was always a solid choice for us.

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69FunnyNumberGuy420 t1_j8szuav wrote

I don't see the closing of a boring, tired, shitty chain restaurant as another tick on the doomsday clock but your point of view may differ.
 
Restaurants close all the time and always have.

0

44problems t1_j8v8n2c wrote

They've collapsed nationwide. Soon they'll only be in a few airports... And Monroeville.

1

James19991 t1_j8wlr71 wrote

What a shame. I haven't heard people talking about them going downhill like with many other restaurant chains when something like this happens.

1

44problems t1_j8wmuln wrote

They were a favorite chain of mine in the 90s/00s. I live away from Pittsburgh and I kinda wish these places still existed now that I have a kid, sometimes you're running errands in the suburbs and it's nice to sit down and eat and these places were always fun for kids. Bathtub sundae and warm cookies.

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stevefiction t1_j8tljy7 wrote

Gotta grab a garbage burger before it's too late

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Longlang t1_j8tx7bl wrote

I didn’t even know there was a Max & Erma’s in Cranberry. I thought they were all closed years ago.

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suggsincharge t1_j8uoysz wrote

BRGR and. M&E we’re two of my favorite places to get a burger and they keep closing

4

Small-Cherry2468 t1_j8w4vql wrote

I think chain restaurants thrived with the boomer generation. For them growing up dining out was strictly for special occasions, and typically the places were privately owned, the food was inconsistent and who knows how clean the kitchen was. In their eyes, places like Max & Erma's were predictable, affordable, and since they were corporate owned, they figured meals were created by corporate chefs and had quality control with food prep and cleanliness. I know a lot of people who travel a lot for work and seeing your favorite chain restaurant away from home was a sight for sore eyes. Back then there was no Yelp or Google to read reviews so who knows what that other place would be like, it would have been a crap shoot.

But that generation isn't dining out as much as they were. And as a millennial I can't think of the last time I sat down at a chain restaurant. They aren't bad, but there are a lot more unique options out there, just a click away to see other patrons feedback. It's not cheap to dine out anymore, if we're going it's going to be somewhere where I can support a local business.

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maaaaaan412 t1_j8tumv5 wrote

They were doomed the second they changed the cheese skewers recipe

2

SystemOfADowneyJr t1_j8wl1ue wrote

Omg please don’t let them close the Monroeville location next 😭😭

1

MadameTree t1_j8wmqez wrote

I was sad when we lost the one in RIDC. Maybe I'll have to trek out to Cranberry. Haven't been there in years.

1

EB2300 t1_j8ws03u wrote

I’m 36, have lived in Cranberry my entire life (unfortunately) and Max and Ermas has been there for a looong time. Only went there a couple times though, wasn’t a huge fan

1

anatoli_smolin t1_j8x27o2 wrote

I feel like M&E fell victim to becoming too corporate and bland. They used to have so much variety on the menu and the food was decent quality and the restaurant was fun and unique with the colored pipes and ice cream bathtub, and the last few times I had been in there (years ago) it was going downhill really quickly. I think they got rid of Free Cookie Wednesdays some time when I was in high school and I stopped going. It’s a shame.

1

DaRiddler70 t1_j8ti45y wrote

I used to enjoy the one in Dayton Ohio, they had a nice lunch menu and quick service. No idea why, but the location closed shortly after I moved to Vegas in 2013.

0

pittpajamas t1_j8xm666 wrote

I'm on a Keto diet. It is very hard to eat out. I tend to just stick to Longhorn(steak and wings) and Red Robin (lettuce wrapped burger). If I can't look up the carbs on your website, I'm not eating there. Max and Erma's does have a gluten sensitive menu, but if I can't see the carbs, I'm not going to risk throwing myself out of ketosis.

0