DaRiddler70 t1_jef02lq wrote on March 31, 2023 at 3:11 PM

Reply to comment by Zenith2017 in Popular Pittsburgh Pizzeria Could Become Homeless Shelter by threwthelookinggrass

You should probably stick to playing RPGs and smoking pot, something you're good at....let the adults handle things.

Zenith2017 t1_jef1mgi wrote on March 31, 2023 at 3:21 PM

Good conversation mate

DaRiddler70 t1_jef1xe3 wrote on March 31, 2023 at 3:23 PM

Don't give me that shit, you came out swinging with your incorrect assumptions and then doubled down on it.

Zenith2017 t1_jef2lk3 wrote on March 31, 2023 at 3:27 PM

You're getting me real confused. Do you want shelters to accept addicts, or not? Because so far it seems like you do not want shelters to accept addicts, but then you keep saying I'm making incorrect assumptions or that I didn't read what you said. So what is your stance?

DaRiddler70 t1_jef4ex8 wrote on March 31, 2023 at 3:39 PM

Well, where did I say don't accept addicts? You'd agree you can't have addicts actively doing drugs in the shelters....right?

Zenith2017 t1_jef5xb0 wrote on March 31, 2023 at 3:49 PM

Well, I tend to follow the Housing First model, which is not an abstinence-only program. Both that and the linear model have real flaws - for example, someone who wants to move to abstinence only doesn't have the social support in a HF program to do so compared to a linear program.

I took your meaning from your previous statements like "you can't have someone in a shelter doing meth", "you don't get someone off drugs by handing them a house", "you can't [stop drug use with housing], you need to solve the mental health or addiction problem first". All of these would collide with the Housing First model, and so I came to believe that you did not want shelters services to be available to individuals who weren't drug-free. Is that accurate?

DaRiddler70 t1_jef99nr wrote on March 31, 2023 at 4:10 PM

So, you can't have some IN the shelter doing meth. They can go OUTSIDE and do the drugs....but this doesn't solve anything.

The Housing First doesn't work. People seem to think that if you can somehow connect with people on a primal food/shelter basic needs level you'll somehow set them on a path to get off drugs and/or treat their mental health. But it's really just a politician's wet dream type idea. As long as they can let the public think they are trying to do something, people will like them (ie get elected).

This isn't the stone age. You need to fix the issue first, then housing is a step after that to help keep them stay clean or mentally fit to be a functional member of society.

Do you know what the real hurdle is to solving this?

Zenith2017 t1_jefa8cq wrote on March 31, 2023 at 4:17 PM

I mean, Housing First isn't based on hearsay, it's based on evidence. The Linear model is also evidence based and both have drawbacks. I don't think one can accurately state that housing first flat out doesn't work. (INB4 Cicero house study, so poorly conducted I can't handle it)

I reckon the greatest hurdle is funding. These programs cost a shit load of money, and our leaders choose to spend it on other things, same as any funding issue. But I'll hear you out on the greatest hurdle you see in the process