Why is 28 the most dysfunctional road ever designed?

Submitted by sudosudoku t3_ydwvxr in pittsburgh

Who is in charge of road work projects for 28? Why did they think that starting 4 projects at the same time was a good idea? Are they going to pay me back for my hours of missed work and gallons of wasted fuel sitting in 25 minute stops? Are the people who race down the highland park bridge exit lane just to cut back into the southbound lane going to ever learn they are only making the issue we call 28 even worse?

What solutions are there, if any at all even exist?

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itsjscott t1_itupmg7 wrote

28 is SO MUCH BETTER than it was 15 years ago, even with the current construction debacle.

(edited for spelling)

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InfraredDiarrhea t1_itut2pk wrote

You mean you don’t miss that traffic signal at the 31st street bridge?

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itsjscott t1_itutryj wrote

Nope... nor do I miss the one at the 40th St. bridge. I also don't miss having to navigate through the traffic lights on the north side to get from 28 to the Ft. Duq / Ft. Pitt bridges. The Highland Park bridge construction sucks, but that's ALSO going to be 500% better when it's finished. The short-term sunk cost is worth the long-term benefit.

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PigDog4 t1_ituu7qc wrote

And they're making pretty good progress. I live near it and drive it regularly, used to be every day pre-pandemic. It's really moving along, just a huge job to reconfigure multiple on/off ramps and bridges.

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New_Acanthaceae709 t1_itvxxzu wrote

We know it's a huge job; they just seem to do bad project management.

Example: they just redid one side of the Highland Park Bridge. Why not do both sides at once for paving?

Example: they just redid the section north of the bridge, northbound. But they've taken several week-long pauses, while traffic pays the cost every day they're not done.

Do less at one time and do it well, which is a scheduling problem, but they have no accountability for that in their process.

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stoogemcduck t1_itw6gk7 wrote

… don’t you miss when it was a weird city grid with people trying to gun it in and of businesses and cars parked half on the sidewalk?

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mazhas t1_itxi1lf wrote

now I'm curious about this. are you saying there was a traffic signal below 31st directly on 28? I'm aware of the signals on 31st but never knew they had one on 28.

been here since 11 so before my time

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5TAR-LORD t1_itxu4t8 wrote

Yep. Very near the 40th St bridge on the Millvale side there was a bar/pizza joint (can't recall the name), a small DIY concert venue (Millvale Industrial Theater) and other businesses that stretched down at least to the 31st St bridge. Two stoplights to navigate between Millvale to Deutschtown.

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sockar101 t1_ityvcmw wrote

If you're thinking of the yellow brick building, that was at the light at the 31st Street Bridge and it was Lambro's Lounge.

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CL-MotoTech t1_itzmpsz wrote

Lambro's! I could not remember that name but I could picture it.

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BackmarkerLife t1_ity1atw wrote

Here's 28 in 2004 just before they started the massive upgrades.

https://imgur.com/fwPNbng (dotted line is proposal at the time)

40th, 31st, then a light at 16th was 28. You HAD to drive through the North Side to get on to 279, there was no easy way to get on to 579. (For some reason I'm misremembering if there was a random light between 31st and 16th for businesses or just traffic flow - there was a car garage, a historic church to consider in the construction as well.)

There were a fuckton of accidents in that corridor. You hear about accidents now due to speed, etc. There were major multicar accidents and head on collisions. There were no jersey barriers between North and South directions. At some point they added those flex posts that separate the bike lanes these days. Drivers drove just as fast on 28 in 2004 as they drive today: 80mph.

All of these bypasses below East to West did not exist and it made traffic hell in the North Side.

https://imgur.com/TF5kikq

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Excelius t1_ituxkp3 wrote

It's far from the worst major road in the area, but it's users like to complain the loudest.

I used to live in an area where it was a roughly equal distance between heading to 28 or the Parkway to commute into the city, and after experimenting with both I usually ended up with 28 being much faster. And every major construction project has really only made things better.

My theory is that since Route 28 generally leads out to the least developed quarter of the county, the folks that use it just aren't used to experiencing any significant traffic, so they complain more.

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Confident_End_3848 t1_ituztjm wrote

I think when the really get 28 to a four lane highway all the way, the Alle-Kiski corridor could see growth. It is probably one of the few areas left with affordable land.

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JustHereForTheSaul t1_itxd0ya wrote

There is a theory among some urban planners called "induced demand" which states pretty much what you're saying -- if you have a highway that has heavy traffic, and you expand it, it'll be less congested in the short term, but eventually you're going to have just as much traffic as you did before. Because people will see the decrease in congestion and move to that corridor, thus increasing traffic.

I don't know enough to know how true it is, but it makes sense logically.

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BackmarkerLife t1_ity1znp wrote

That's what happened to Robinson / Moon. 20 years ago that area was desolate as hell. Then they build the shopping center where Wal-Mart is. I remember working 1 exit down 22 and several times a day they would blast dynamite and the building would shake.

I lived in Oakland and going to Robinson for work was a breeze. It was my secret place to see a movie because despite the distance it was fast to get to.

Now it's a 6-lane death trap with a bunch of drivers who think they're Warboys.

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kyach25 t1_itvd49f wrote

We love it there. 25 minutes from downtown, 2 acres, and a 4 bed house for below $300k. Con is the Trumpsters, but we have privacy from them so it’s great.

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lydriseabove t1_itwnuu0 wrote

I’ve been in Pittsburgh for 10 years, when I first moved here, it was under construction and a nightmare, but then it ran smoothly and beautifully for like 5 years until this current project started, but everyone just forgets those amazing years.

It seems a lot of people also don’t know the end game of the current project, which is to add an exit lane for Highland park bridge. Instead of 1 lane to stay on 28 and 1 lane to exit for Highland park bridge, there will be two lanes for 28 and a proper exit lane for the bridge.

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stoogemcduck t1_itw7url wrote

I’ve been driving it every day and the current construction still doesn’t clog things up as bad as going through any of the tunnels on a good day. 28 drivers are just sociopaths.

I will say it’s super annoying that they close off lanes seemingly at random, so every day you’re caught off guard by when you’re supposed to merge.

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st1ggyt0p t1_itycxlm wrote

>I will say it’s super annoying that they close off lanes seemingly at random, so every day you’re caught off guard by when you’re supposed to merge.

This is my biggest gripe. I commute daily from Morningside to Harmar and it is wild trying to figure out which lanes are closed on a daily basis.

The sections they have the semi-permanent barriers leading onto 28N from the bridge, and after the Delafield Ave on/off ramps are so tight, and the pavement is super uneven causing me to panic thinking I am going to crash into the sides.

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kyach25 t1_itvcvx0 wrote

I live in an similar area and can choose between 28, Parkway, Freeport Road, or Allegheny River Blvd. Each has their pro and con. 28 is always faster in a perfect scenario, but that’s sometimes now the case. When that occurs, the other roads all offer a great alternative, but 28 ain’t that bad. Plus if you don’t want to sit in traffic at HPB, just drive through OHara or Fox Chapel and enjoy the leaves.

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sothatsathingnow t1_itvibx9 wrote

I drive it multiple times a week for work and as much of a pain in the ass as it was getting to this point it was absolutely worth it. Those fucking traffic lights were killer.

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vVSidewinderVv t1_itwh9wi wrote

On occasion 3 hour waits for what should have been a 40 minute trip. Usually cause some asshole tried to cut in at the Etna split and caused an accident.

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stoogemcduck t1_itw775v wrote

For the hell of it, I went on google street view back to 2007 and clicked down route 28, and it’s wild how there where literally sidewalks and houses inbound from 40th street down. Could you imagine living there???

Also, the current construction is kid stuff compared to when they were redo-ing 31st street and it took half and hour minimum just to get past the heinz lofts

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makearunforitx t1_itxkcen wrote

Lived in one of those houses for a few years, it wasn’t ideal for parking/yard but it was convenient to the city.

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1pghdude t1_itwsn1q wrote

I love telling this to new people. Even pointing out the little booth the cop would sit in to control rush hour lights.

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PirinTablets13 t1_iu373mi wrote

A former co-worker of mine was killed in a head-on collision on 28, before the intersections at the bridges were re-done. It really used to be so much worse. I’ll take construction that leads to improvement over going to a viewing for a kid in their mid-20s any day.

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itsjscott t1_iu4dgoe wrote

Sorry to hear that ... couldn't agree more

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Yinzerman1992 t1_itukgsh wrote

I highly encourage people to read about the history and historical context regarding Route 28

History of Route 28

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djb25 t1_itum2dm wrote

wow. 100 years of half-assedness.

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LegendOfVinnyT t1_itut3z6 wrote

Multiple projects, some simultaneous, some unconnected, all concentrating on local requirements alone without considering that they're all part of one contiguous limited access highway. Brilliant!

Learning that Blawnox was once the northern terminus explains a lot about that horrible old traffic pattern between southbound RIDC and Fox Chapel. Glad it only took [does math] 50 years to reconfigure it.

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Icy_Photograph412 t1_itvtgmq wrote

This is Awesome! When I was a child this is what we thought the internet would be, someone has a question and the internet provides a detailed answer that would have been nearly impossible to find before.

Instead now people believe that the earth is flat.

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Oneirox t1_ituudoe wrote

iirc, someone representing Penndot said the reason they have 3 construction projects going is because the money was available and if they didn’t use it, it would have been reallocated. So while the HP bridge project was already underway the lane widening and overpass repairs projects were started now, for that reason.

It is quite frustrating for the daily commuters though, agreed.

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vivamario t1_itv0tdo wrote

Yeah, PennDOT just completely shut down during Covid. Restarting that animal took time so a lot of the lettings got bunched up.

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scorched_mirth t1_ity28zk wrote

COVID is when highway reconstruction should have shifted into overdrive to get work done while traffic was minimal. Why didn’t they do that?

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vivamario t1_itzu7hu wrote

I'm not in PennDOT, so I can't say for sure, but I think it's that no one thought about engineering. Those guys have the fancy offices downtown and in the surrounding towns and were all shut down pretty quick.

I stayed busy all through Covid, but actually go laid off last year because of the lettings all getting pushed. Engineering needed to be working on designs during Covid so that there were projects to bid, but they didn't so end of 2020 through 2021 barely had any lettings and they all got pushed to earlier this year.

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twolfe0 t1_ituj7r3 wrote

This is Reddit, so most responses you'll get will be to ride a bike or take public transit. As a road 28 is extremely similar to 76 in Philly (Schuylkill Expressway) in the way how it's wedged between a steep hill and railroad tracks, so widening will be more expensive than normal because it involves either a lot of digging and cutting, or the road can be double decked which would likely cost about 100 million a mile.

The good news is PA is eligible for up to 15 billion dollars over the next 5 years specifically for roads and bridges (another, separate 15 billion is going to public transit). That's a huge sum of money that can fix a lot of our road problems in the state. Not sure if they'll do anything with 28 but the chances certainly increase with large sums of money being given.

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benji950 t1_ituq6ps wrote

I’m new here but grew up in the Philly suburbs. I now know all I need to know to understand 28 from your comment about the Expressway.

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twolfe0 t1_itus24u wrote

If the state is smart they would allocate about 3 of the 15 billion specifically for 76 mainly because that's actually the busiest highway in the state, and theres a toll capture potential of around 50 million a year if they add express lanes. As far as 28 it wouldn't get that kind of investment but it wouldn't need it either

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sudosudoku OP t1_itujjp3 wrote

fair enough. as far as biking is concerned, i'd have to leave 5 or 6 hours before work to make it on time, and public transport doesn't exist in the beautiful countryside

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benji950 t1_ituq2di wrote

You’ll be in awesome shape with all that riding!

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EnnuiDeBlase t1_ituwjxf wrote

I know that's a joke, but to pedant - with 12 hours of daily travel time + 8 work that leaves 4 hours. Assume an hour to eat/wind down/shower that's 3 hours of sleep a day - definitely awful for you.

I'm sorry I'm like this.

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war321321 t1_itvgzs1 wrote

So what I’m hearing is get rid of the job 😎

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Tre_Scrilla t1_itwdq5u wrote

Not to be pedantic but they have to be exaggerating. Unless they live in like Templeton but then they probably wouldn't be complaining about a 40 minute commute by car

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EnnuiDeBlase t1_itxoz5p wrote

I feel like 40 minutes is just the margin of error for route 28. A friend of mine once referred to it as his favorite 20 to 50 minutes of the day.

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Tre_Scrilla t1_itzxoet wrote

Ya idk where they live but I'm just saying they would have to live faaarrr out to be a 6 hr bike ride.

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EnnuiDeBlase t1_iu01cu0 wrote

If you asked me how long it would take me to bike to RIDC park from Greenfield I wouldn't be able to give you a time-deterministic answer because I feel like the question doesn't have a valid Euclidean answer, tbh.

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Tre_Scrilla t1_iu0bwxs wrote

I see what you're saying but typing that route into Google maps shows a few options around an hour. My point is I just doubt they live six hours away from downtown by bike.

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EnnuiDeBlase t1_iu0cprc wrote

I plopped in a route and I'm with you right until we get to the Highland Park bridge. I drove on that for years, I would rather break my legs and go on disability that have to bike to work on that bridge every day.

Six hours is definitely too high, I'll grant you that.

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TheLiberator117 t1_itxpjh0 wrote

Just remember that your taxes that you're supposedly paying for road maintenance don't go anywhere near enough to paying for the roads you're using! Your "beautiful countryside" living is subsidized by people living in cities.

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ej6687 t1_itutfw2 wrote

Not sure there are many other projects left for 28 after this current one. They fixed the "death stretch" into the city and made changes to the Rt 8 area. This was the "final" piece to make it multiple lanes the entire way from the city to Harmarville. Unless they plan on doing something inbound between RIDC and Fox Chapel

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Far_Room23 t1_itvceat wrote

It would be incredible if they actually attached it to 279. That transfer from one to the other is painful as it currently is.

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twolfe0 t1_itvsnfw wrote

I always thought they should connect it to 579 and number the whole route as such. The 579 designation is way too short and if it were designated an interstate it would qualify for more federal funding

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bluepisces1980 t1_itvvuto wrote

As someone who lives easy access to 79 in the north hills yes! I’d love an easy straight ramp to 28 as most of my family live off of 28 in FC, Blawnox, etc… instead I do the long way to rt 8 then a back way up 910… 🤷🏻‍♀️

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DisFigment t1_itxjzqn wrote

I think some city councilman in the 70’s/80’s during 279 planning got them to avoid a 28 connector so as to dump traffic into the lower north side to hopefully drive sales at local businesses. Didn’t really work as the area is much worse now than the 80’s.

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luckystinkynemo1 t1_itz8fzt wrote

This is way out of the county but I believe there is a plan to extend the expressway all the way to I-80 at Brookville.

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jimbo_kun t1_itv91s6 wrote

> The good news is PA is eligible for up to 15 billion dollars over the next 5 years specifically for roads and bridges (another, separate 15 billion is going to public transit).

Thanks, Biden!

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not28 t1_ituutg4 wrote

Kinda weird how the only responses here that mention biking were denigrating it.

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mizu_no_oto t1_itvmjkp wrote

Seriously.

The fundamental problem with cars and traffic in a city is throughput per lane.

A fully saturated car lane at maximum flow might be able to transport 1,900 vehicles per hour - which is one car every 1.9 seconds. Usual throughput is much lower than that because people usually like to have more than a second or two of following distance.

A fully saturated 3.3 foot bike lane might be able to transport 2,600 bikes per hour, on the lower end of estimates. An 8 foot car lane can transport more than 5k bike riders.

A dedicated bus lane with frequent service can transport something like 6k people.

And grade-separated light rail can transport something like 30k people per hour.

If you're in a car because you live way out in the country and work in the city, what you really want is awesome public transit and bike infrastructure that will get other people out of their cars so you're not stuck in bumper to bumper traffic with them. Or a good commuter rail + bike/transit network you could take.

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AWrenchAndTwoNuts t1_itwzdmq wrote

Dude I am still waiting on the HSR from the airport they promised us 20 years ago.

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DirtNapsRevenge t1_itutfdp wrote

You think that's good news? Lol! There are far to many examples to site in a single Reddit post, but I did give a few in my above post, of SWPA region being awarded plenty of money in the past for projects to improve and modernize the transportation infrastructure in the area. Virtually all of which has been redirected by local politicians and planners to projects that server their own political interest instead.

15 billion, 150 billion heck 1.5 trillion, you can give Penn Dot and Allegheny County all the money you can imagine and more and very little, if any, will ever be used to actually improve the mess around here. Do you know that the federal government has twice in the past allocated money for a beltway highway system around Pittsburgh? Take a couple guesses why it was never built.

Every penny of whatever they're given will be directed to serving the interests of downtown property owners and developers just as it always have been.

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PigDog4 t1_ituuhsy wrote

Whoah, PennDot doesn't give all of the money to downtown property owners and developers, the police take a big chunk of it, too.

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DirtNapsRevenge t1_itv10yh wrote

PennDot doesn't give ANY money to downtown property owners.

What it does is give money to local politicians and planners for projects with vaguely sketched out objectives and purposes and those local politicians and planners make sure the projects that serve their own interests and those of the developers who support them get funded.

You all need reliable transportation to the Pittsburgh "International" Airport? Sorry, streets around the stadiums, casino and apartment buildings nobody will ever move into get done first.

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twolfe0 t1_ituv4tf wrote

From what I gather... because I was thinking the same thing too ..is that the money will be dispersed differently than it was in the past. Basically the state has to show the federal government the project they want they money for and it has to be approved....and the feds are encouraging megaprojects. So it's not, "here's your money do with it as you choose".

With that being said...I'm skeptical myself. We'll have a better understanding in five years as to what they'll actually do...and if it's little to nothing to help to the average citizen then we need to make them suffer consequences... whatever they may be. LOL

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DirtNapsRevenge t1_ituzxfw wrote

Except that not how it actually works. The north shore connector is a pretty good example of how it does. Federal money is frequently given to regional planners for a stated purpose and the local planners make the final decisions on how to achieve the purpose.

Most everyone who supported doing so assumed it would be used for one of the proposals on the table to extend it to Oakland or the North Hills. It wasn't until after the money was approved that locals decided the tunnel to the stadiums was the best use of the money. Technically it meet the objective, it did expand the existing system but virtually nobody who sought or supported the funding imagined it being used is such a manner.

Same for the funding of the transportation to the airport, funding was provided as part of the airport project for the purpose of increasing access to the new airport site, not a specific project, and most everyone thought that would be one of several LTR proposals that had been made. Once the airport funding was approved locals opted to build a bus way instead which technically met the criteria of the funding. When all was said and done, one crappy bus route was all that came to be and the funding for that project disappeared down the rabbit hole.

That's how it always works for new projects around here, one big shell game.

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twolfe0 t1_itv2m3s wrote

Based on everything you're saying I think people like yourself or anyone else with similar knowledge should remain loud throughout this whole process. It's absolutely incredible how a lot of our states busiest roads have been ignored over the years, and to read that they had the money to do the airport light rail line and didn't do it is very disheartening. I read in the infrastructure bill that the money being dispersed has to be for quality of life improvements...so it may be a test of how corrupt these decision makers can get.

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DirtNapsRevenge t1_itv49bq wrote

Ahhh, but they haven't been ignored at all. What they have been is, designed, built and maintained in precisely the fashion local politicians need in order to achieve their objectives ...

Objectives which absolutely, unequivocally DO NOT including making it easier for people outside the City of Pittsburgh to get around.

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therealbobstark t1_ituluuu wrote

People always bitch about 28 but I’ve driven in rush hour through the Squirrel hill tunnels for years and it’s worse. You work in a city, get over it.

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MrRetrdO t1_itv6i04 wrote

Few years back, if it was 4PM and I had to get to a client site out towards Monroeville, I would prefer to go up 28 and cross over. It was so much easier!!

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therealbobstark t1_itv6src wrote

Yup, going back and forth from Murrysville can be torture. The bottle neck is too real, and at complete random times you’ll be in standstill. At least you can predict 28

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hubbyofhoarder t1_itv8am8 wrote

I lived in Regent Square for nearly 30 years and now live in the South Hills. South Hills driving is generally so much easier (to be fair, I don't have to mess with 51) and less bottlenecked.

376E was the site of years of many long afternoons in standstill traffic trying to get home. Fuck that stretch of road with a big razor wire d**k

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DisFigment t1_itxkusz wrote

South Hills has the T with lots of park and ride lots for downtown workers. No other area has anything close to it.

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jimbo_kun t1_itv9i9o wrote

Yes, this is the Calvin's Dad answer! Builds character!

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thesockcode t1_ituvz1u wrote

You want to live in the "beautiful countryside" and work in the city, you're gonna spend time sitting in traffic. That's how it goes. The only solutions forthcoming are the ones you're complaining about being built.

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sudosudoku OP t1_itv2pbc wrote

If there was no goofery happening on 28 it would take me 40 mins to drive to work.
My gps has me go the entire way down route 8 through the north side every other day because that 1h10m drive is actually *Shorter* than taking 28 some days lately.

−12

lutzcody t1_itutpj7 wrote

I know I’m in the minority but 28 is super convenient if you live in the East End. As long as you aren’t on it during rush hour it’s not that bad.

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PuzzledKale2841 t1_itv4xp5 wrote

Did you… ever drive on it before it’s current state? It used to be basically route 8 with a ton of stop lights every few blocks at each bridge, no dividers, huge potholes, businesses and homes lining the hillside… it’s way better. It’s a nightmare to drive because it has a 45mph unenforceable speed limit but it’s way better.

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frosty03351 t1_itve2tf wrote

Peoples front door literally ten feet from screaming traffic on the road.

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BackmarkerLife t1_ity34w4 wrote

It was a death trap. People drove just as fast back then on 28 as they do now. And there were no barriers between north and south-bound traffic. Head-on collisions at high speeds were common.

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AndrewCpgh1 t1_ituiwam wrote

Just a point of order, the “Highland Park Bridge Exit Lane” doesn’t become exit only until about 1/10 of a mile before the exit. You should use both lanes until the merge point.

A large portion of the traffic is caused by people who 1) get into the long line of cars continuing on 28 well before the merge point, and 2) cars in that line that refuse to let people in the other lane merge.

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IrrumaboMalum t1_itujj94 wrote

>A large portion of the traffic is caused by people who 1) get into the long line of cars continuing on 28 well before the merge point, and 2) cars in that line that refuse to let people in the other lane merge.

And then you have the third type of people - those in the long line who will actually get out (usually partially, just enough to block the short lane while staying in their place in the long lane) and cut you off when you're trying to get to the merge point just to stop you from "cutting in line."

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chrisms150 t1_itut895 wrote

Or better yet. You actually take that exit.

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IrrumaboMalum t1_itxrw8o wrote

I usually do because it ends up being far quicker to hop over the hill to get to McKnight if that is where I am going on a day off. But if I'm not going to McKnight and instead am going to the city or someplace else in that direction, I'm going to do the zipper method that PENNDot recommends (and it seems that no one acknowledges).

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chrisms150 t1_ity2tkk wrote

Oh, i meant they stop you from "cutting" but in reality you are taking that exit

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IrrumaboMalum t1_ity3q3o wrote

Like I said - sometimes I am, sometimes I'm not. My particular experience with people trying to block me like I mentioned wasn't on 28 though - it was at the PA/WV border where they was some construction going on and I was coming back from Cabelas.

Did a little light off roading in my rental Camry to get around the shits from the long lane who were trying to prevent me from zipper merging. Actually had two people do it that day to me.

Apparently Camrys are ORVs now.

1

die-jarjar-die t1_itv10sh wrote

It's not a merge, though. Merging is when two lanes merge to one. It's a lane meant to take the bridge. You know it's not just a fast lane to get ahead of the thoughtful people that know ahead of time and have been patiently waiting in the right lane.

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AndrewCpgh1 t1_itv4tz8 wrote

But my point is those “thoughtful” people waiting in line are actually backing up traffic and causing congestion. If you use both lanes until the exit point traffic moves faster.

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guino27 t1_itvgv5u wrote

How so? If everyone merges early, then the through lane can maintain speed. If everyone merges at the last point, it will be continuous stopped traffic, with shorter lines.

I'm an engineer and this logic never made sense to me unless the backed up traffic interfered with other junctions.

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AndrewCpgh1 t1_itvq1hb wrote

Why do you choose to prioritize the cars going over the highland park bridge over the cars continuing on 28. They should share the construction backlog evenly. The right lane is not a through lane to the bridge. It is part of a 2 lane infrastructure system that serves both directions.

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LisicaUCarapama t1_itv9dy7 wrote

The problem with this is that traffic to the Highland Park exit would get blocked by people going past the exit. Since the left lane is often backed up half a mile, they should move the exit-only signage to be further in front of the exit.

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chuckie512 t1_ituprxc wrote

It was built before it was needed, and before there were standards around expressway construction

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pedantic_comments t1_itv267d wrote

You aren’t sitting IN traffic. You ARE traffic.

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jimbo_kun t1_itv99y1 wrote

Yes, this is definitely a pedantic comment.

−2

LostEnroute t1_ituzxd5 wrote

>Are they going to pay me back for my hours of missed work and gallons of wasted fuel sitting in 25 minute stops?

Because you live far from your place or work and drive your car you think you deserve compensation for delays?

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sudosudoku OP t1_itv35qa wrote

because I leave an hour and 15 mins ahead of time to still be late for a normally 40 minute commute

−15

pburgh2517 t1_itva7d2 wrote

Perhaps it really isn’t normally 40 mins at the time of day you are driving it. I’m 10 mins from downtown at 3 am but 30 at 7:30 am. Both of those are normal drive times.

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sudosudoku OP t1_itvg2bj wrote

I used to drive 28 a couple years back to hit bigelow and it took me about 40 mins during the same 7:30ish timeframe, nowadays its like 1h20m to get to east Carson. All my issues stem from right after the RIDC exit, the highland park bridge, the double merge just past it (etna maybe? Idk where that is specifically), and the spot where it junctions into the veterans bridge (which was always a little congested anyway)

−3

da_london_09 t1_itv2rvt wrote

It's way better than it was about 15 years ago. No more traffic lights, wider, and besides the current improvement going on at the highland park bridge its fine. And it will be way better once the new lane is added at the bridge exit.

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H3lue t1_itvnnuw wrote

Demolish 28 and put commuter rail there instead.

11

duranfan t1_itz8lwf wrote

As someone who drives 28 daily, I would love this.

0

ParappaGotBars t1_itwrutt wrote

Because while starting the first project, they ran into numerous other issues, which resulted in multiple projects going at once just so they can finish the original project.

I’m one of the workers.

Also, 28 isn’t all that bad. It’s stupid drivers that are the issue. Stop driving all the way to the Highland Park bridge ramp then trying to squeeze your way into the left lane.

10

boredoflife96 t1_itz24uj wrote

I'm convinced that merging correctly, and driving the speed limit would solve pretty much all of 28's problems.

3

paddle_forth t1_ituzo5c wrote

The new inbound Blawnox on-ramp is terrible

8

howmuchcheese t1_ity7h1b wrote

I agree. That should be a stop sign now not a yield or a yield with a longer, more visible acceleration lane. Drivers think that's still their own merging lane onto 28 - I did the first time I used it since it reopened - when now it is a sharp point that ends too abruptly into traffic or the concrete median. Thought about posting that as a PSA!

1

paddle_forth t1_ity8inc wrote

Yeah the on-ramp is weirdly angled to the right while the road is still curving left. Plus the drivers on 28 are always bombing it down the hill, giving them an extra lane is only going to allow more speeding.

1

SmellyBaconland t1_itvdeyw wrote

The total number of cars on the road is rising every year, but I'm sure the system is infinitely scalable.

8

guino27 t1_itvkae4 wrote

Well, I can give some perspective. My grandparents lived in New Kensington from the 50s to the 90s. We lived in the South Hills.

As the link provided said, there was nothing on the North Side, no links to anything. "28" was no different to 19 in the South Hills, just a label applied to existing local neighborhood roads.

If we wanted to head up, I remember two routes. First, taking the parkway to Monroeville and cutting via back routes to Oakmont to Freeport Road. Second, cutting through the city to Washington Boulevard and taking Allegheny River Boulevard to Oakmont, then cutting across the Allegheny to Freeport Road. Both sucked, especially during rush hour.

Fox Chapel felt less connected than Sewickley, for example.

IIRC, it was well into the 80s before we started using 28. Until some point, you still had to drive around the Heinz plant. Obviously, 279 was a game changer as it started to connect the various major roads. However, with the churches and the rail lines and the existing bridges at 31st and 40th, I never imagined it would ever be like it is now.

Yes, the Highland Bridge Interchange sucks for now. But, when it is finished, it's going to be a route Pittsburghers never could've dreamed of. I don't want to sound booster-ish, but this is one project that has truly changed the local geography.

8

runmymouth t1_itukj79 wrote

I moved here from houston. At least they didnt make an interchange like i45-i59 here. Roadwork always sucks, as far as solutions, maybe see if you can flex start time, merge shifts together, work remotely, or find another route? None of these may work for you.

7

Comfortable_Yak_9776 t1_ituq125 wrote

See, I’m with you, this whole thread is ridiculous. I’ve travelled and lived in several areas including Southern California it really changes your perspective about traffic around here.

14

PigDog4 t1_ituuqum wrote

The problem with the LA area is there are too many people. The highway system is actually pretty decent to drive on during moderate traffic, it's just that there are so many freaking people that nothing really works during rush hours and holidays.

The traffic here is really bad for how few people there are, for sure.

5

hubbyofhoarder t1_itv8rx7 wrote

While we're on the subject: fuck Texas access roads

3

runmymouth t1_itvaqg1 wrote

The feeders are nice…. Just dont get confused :p

1

hubbyofhoarder t1_itvb46d wrote

I'm a former East end guy now living in the South Hills. North and East of the city are no go zones, as the roads are so annoying

2

Tre_Scrilla t1_itwefv2 wrote

I'm looking to get out of Houston and Pittsburgh is at the top of my list of places to go. Just gotta convince my wife she won't mind the cold

3

runmymouth t1_itwgck8 wrote

Its not as cold as many northern locations. It gets cold yes but not for long or very cold. I havent seen more than below 0 but 1/2 times a year and only for a few hours.

3

BobShrunkle t1_itun2al wrote

Halfway through, I began reading this in the voice of the 60s Batman narrator. I WILL be tuning in at the same Bat time on the same Bat channel for the answers to these pressing questions. I expect yinz to find them and report back. 🦇

7

NSlocal t1_ituv9d3 wrote

Live closer to your job?

7

sudosudoku OP t1_itv2yag wrote

nah i'd never ever live back in the city again

−7

sebileis t1_itvzkkv wrote

Then stop complaining about having a long commute! :)

7

mr_pgh t1_itvdr8m wrote

RT 28 is the way it is because of the geography and the fact that they took a tiny little state route and expanded it into an express way.

Combined with induced demand

7

xxdropdeadlexi t1_ituvpxx wrote

I think the people who race to the end of the merge at the highland park bridge should lose their licenses. I've seen them cause a few accidents and almost cause many many more.

6

hubbyofhoarder t1_itv8pei wrote

Because many (certainly not all) people in this city view zipper merging at a 2 lane end as an affront to their family's honor. Driving as quickly as traffic will allow and then taking turnsies at the merge end is scientifically proven to be faster/safer for everyone.

8

Tobho_Mott t1_itvkcoa wrote

Except the people trying to actually get off at the Highland Park Bridge who have to wait for you to merge back in now

5

itsjscott t1_itvlthg wrote

This doesn't mean that the concept of using both lanes until the merge point is bad... it means that some people are really fucking bad at driving and don't know how to merge effectively / appropriately.

2

samspopguy t1_itw7j76 wrote

thats not a merge point

3

itsjscott t1_itw85i6 wrote

That's ... If we're being picky

0

samspopguy t1_itwavok wrote

How so it’s not merging two lanes into one. It’s two lanes one goes straight and then other is an exit lane.

2

itsjscott t1_itwmnia wrote

You're being pedantic, so I'll join you. IMO, technically it's two merge points simultaneously happening at the same time along with a third merge point from the right due to the on-ramp from Delafield.

The one merge point in question now has a long line.

The problem isn't the merge point and it isn't people using both lanes until that merge point exists... the problem is people driving poorly, putting themselves into a situation where they can no longer merge, and then stopping the other lane.

If you are even a below-average driver, there is no issue.

−1

samspopguy t1_itw7fkq wrote

thats not a merge point.

2

xxdropdeadlexi t1_itwl25j wrote

Yeah you're right, but I figured it would be easier to explain it that way. Whenever you call it a merge people think it's okay to push their car in at the last second, when they should already have been in the lane for a mile.

2

RumbleInTheJungle4 t1_itv0z32 wrote

I love a good 28 thread. I kid you not around 4:15 yesterday on highland park bridge there was a fender bender in the left lane then like 50ft further their was a broken down car in the right lane. It was so crazy

6

locus2779 t1_itxnoe1 wrote

Now I'm glad I opted to go through Penn Hills to get home yesterday

1

johnpgh t1_itvp401 wrote

am I the only one possibly who's scared to death to merge on to 28 from the east end heading west? You're not supposed to stop, just pray that traffic going 75 miles an hour doesn't crush you when you merge? That's my gripe with 28.

6

soggymuffinz t1_itupgdz wrote

I feel this way now about 837 in homestead. I have to drive 30 minutes out of the way just to get to glass run. It's been a pain. It's like they are not even doing anything.

5

varzaguy t1_itv7h8y wrote

I think it’s hilarious that this time the complaint is too many projects.

Like…..yea if the road needs to be upgraded this is how I want them to do it. Not half assed for the next 5 years.

5

duranfan t1_itz8v5z wrote

If they're going to do it, they should be working three shifts around the clock. Then maybe it wouldn't take until August of 2023 to finish it all.

1

TheDocWhovian t1_itul8to wrote

  1. be that person at HPB. You’ll thank yourself.
  2. article explaining why all projects had to start at once
4

sqqueen2 t1_iturb15 wrote

“Because the highway needed repairs and the money was there”

4

SouthHill1968 t1_ituyl58 wrote

28 and the related intersections/exits wouldn’t be so bad if people would slow TF down and pay attention! Take your GD life in your hands every day on that thing cause people think it’s a MF racetrack. JFC. Okbye

4

SirRonaldBiscuit t1_itun7nq wrote

It’s been like this for 20+ years, there used to be traffic lights down by north side at Troy hill (lol) . It’s gotten a bunch better but it’s still a shit show.I’m wondering the same about the highland park bridge, says the sharpsburg exit won’t be open til next year

3

Fantastic-Ad2195 t1_itumw2b wrote

It’s a game of professional’Frogger’ for all of the Gen X’ers

2

jmarinara t1_itv41u7 wrote

You’re new to Pittsburgh, aren’t you? (I kid, I kid)

But yeah… having grown up along it, it’s the worst highway I’ve ever seen.

2

WoodpeckerFar9804 t1_itvaqgv wrote

I don’t know of a time in my entire 46 years on this planet that 28 wasn’t under construction

2

rosie98red t1_itvsv79 wrote

Driving on 28 is my personal hell

2

jbubs84 t1_itvtder wrote

I’m, fingers crossing hoping that the current work near the highland park bridge between north and south bound is them along a true exit lane.

2

infiniteblonde t1_itvu9tg wrote

28 sucks. I know it used to be worse with the stoplight blah blah blah, but it still sucks. Piece of shit little narrow dumbass “highway.”

2

Jaxon_Derby t1_itvwd7k wrote

it was magnitudes of nightmares worse 20 years ago

2

jwormyk t1_itw2veo wrote

I could talk about 28 forever, but what I find to be one of the weirdest things about the road is the complete diversity of driving styles from lane to lane. There is no continuity or consistency between speed (no one travels 45 mph) or traffic flow from the left lane to the right lane. I feel this is partially because exits are on the left and right side and people use the road as a major thoroughfare for rush hour traffic as well as a neighborhood connector... The funny thing is it is a pretty typical road in Pittsburgh.

2

V_I_I t1_itwd801 wrote

I actually drove a tri-axle (construction truck) and got loaded with the dirt they're digging up for the new lanes, even I hated dealin with the traffic going in and out of cones to get loaded.

2

Zapotecorum t1_itwely3 wrote

I dont use 28 often but peoples gas did the same thing TWICE IN A ROW in my neighborhood by using two different contractors (one to dig up pipe and one to repair the treches and peoples gas themselves doing the gas work, from what i understand)

Its resulted in several calls to the police from some of us being blocked on both sides and unable to leave. Which of course lead to more vehicles blocking passage and i myself had to wait around for 10 minutes because the police parked in front of my driveway once.

Its honestly baffling and makes me feel really bad for the contractors. All i can say is that its not the contractors fault, and to be nice to them. They don't like it anymore than commuters do.

2

finrod_stewart t1_itv8tkp wrote

No man they're not gonna reimburse you

1

oncofonco t1_itxq3w0 wrote

You must be new in town lol

1

Fit-Practice1221 t1_ityej9z wrote

I’m sixty years old and for the last fifty years they have been working on these projects on 28. At least you missed the weekly rock/mud slide that was on 28 twenty years ago.

1

jfk_one t1_ityu70l wrote

28 is so much easier than it was

1

blondecomet t1_itz6t0u wrote

I just drove it this morning…I fvcking h8 it so much!! Always have. One of the biggest clusterfvcks in the entire state.

1

CL-MotoTech t1_itzn9mw wrote

Another "I've never been on a truly bad road" thread. It is just embarrassing how much people bitch about roads around here but seemingly have never seen roads in other states or countries.

1

sudosudoku OP t1_iujd47v wrote

I've been to plenty of places with worse roads, that doesn't make an excuse for ours. we can and should always do better

1

CL-MotoTech t1_iujssjp wrote

Not really. Cars are made to handle many conditions and as a driver you should be prepared to to so too. Otherwise it’s we’d never drive anywhere. The road conditions would be unattainable.

1

BakaSan77 t1_ituyafv wrote

Road work, next 500 years.

0

sauceboss412 t1_itukr15 wrote

We should really consider putting a bike lane on 28 just like they did route 8 and route 19….

−8

Argercy t1_itushjy wrote

It's too narrow, the hillside is cut too steep, and traffic tends to be erratic. It's not safe in any way to put a bike lane on 28.

My geology professor in college remarked on the insane steepness of the hillside along 28 and how some of his colleagues refuse to drive on it due to this. That hillside is not naturally formed, it was cut with machinery in the 1920s, highway construction inspection on federal aid projects wasn't a thing til 1979. I wouldn't want a bike lane installed near it.

9

sauceboss412 t1_itutut6 wrote

Just cut one lane out and have a luxury bike lane

−3

InfraredDiarrhea t1_ituu20y wrote

There’s already a trail that runs along the river from millvale to downtown. I believe there are plans to extend it to sharpsburg.

Theres a parking lot in millvale for the trail. Its a quick ride and totally separated from car traffic.

It will take more time (maybe) but it will save gas, improve your health, and reduce your stress since you dont have to deal with other drivers.

8

djb25 t1_itum4y1 wrote

hahahahaha…. yes that would solve everything!

4

DirtNapsRevenge t1_itus0mp wrote

The most honest and direct answer to your question, the one Pittsburgh Redditors will hold their breath and stamp their feet about, is the public sector unions are in charge of the route 28 projects as they are all road projects. And that's why it's been in a constant state of repair since the day it was "completed."

Much of the transportation infrastructure in Pennsylvania was designed and built during the Great Depression and years immediately afterward when government projects were planned with one of the criteria being creating as many busy work jobs as possible to get and keep people employed. Tunnels and bridges especially were proposed and built where road ways around the obstacles would have made more sense, and very frequently simpler and more direct proposals were dismissed in favor more elaborate and complicated systems that require more maintenance precisely because they would employ more people then and into the future.

And now we're stuck with many of those decisions.

Stuck with them not always because there aren't better solutions or ways to correct the design flaws, but stuck with them because proposals to replace the bad ideas, like the Parkway East Bypass that would eliminate the bottleneck the Squirrel Hill tunnel creates and has been proposed and re-proposed again and again since the 70s', would mean far fewer jobs for Penn Dot in the future. Same with rt 28, many proposals have been made and dismissed to replace that road with others that make more sense, but Penn Dot and the politicians they support prefer to keep things the way they are precisely because it keeps the money flowing to them and serves another of their political interests ...

... that being population control, down vote away but it remains true none-the-less;

Back in the 80's Pittsburgh hosted a convention for some Society of Transportation Infrastructure Engineers (or something like that I can't recall the exact name) where they "awarded" Pittsburgh with the title of worst transportation infrastructure in the country. Not because of the condition of the roads, which if you can believe it were even worse than they are today, but because of what the engineering group called the "Berlin Wall approach" to population losses by local politicians. They cited numerous examples where transportation money was used to build/upgrade/change road ways, one of which was ... drum roll ... rt 28, in the least efficient and most disruptive way possible with the idea being that if they made it as difficult as possible to get in and out of the city that would dissuade people from moving out to the suburbs in increasing numbers as they were back then.

Obviously that didn't work but even in more recent years that "Berlin Wall" approach has been repeatedly employed to make commuting into and out of the city deliberately difficult. More recent examples being, federal money that was allocated to extending the light rail system out of the city to serve the expanding Pittsburgh International Airport project in the late 80's being instead diverted by local planners to a bus way projected instead, the decision to do so resulting in the head of the regional transportation committee at the time to resign and take a similar job elsewhere (in Atlanta I believe) with a public letter EXCORIATING local politicians and planners for choosing an already "obsolete" plan over real modernization for the purpose of serving the interests of public sector employee unions over the needs of the region ... that bus way btw was obviously never built. Other examples are the money intended to increase access to Oakland from downtown (the forever proposed Spline train and similar) and proposals to deliver light rail to the North Hills and beyond instead being used to build one of the biggest boondoggles ever (voted that by numerous watchdog groups) the LTR tunnel connecting the Northside stadiums.

Like it or not, the rt 28 project like all of the transportation projects in the area are under the control of political interests who think punishing people for choosing to live outside the city by intentionally designing inefficient and obsolete transportation systems and keeping them in a constant state of disrepair to the benefit of public sector unions is a legitimate function of the government.

−17

sebileis t1_itw12wj wrote

r/idiottrumpsupporters

−1

SimoneFatale t1_itwm0yj wrote

It's very revealing that you think a subject that has been widely discussed and opinions shared by outside groups ranging from engineering and transportation infrastructure organizations to government watchdog groups for more than four decades has something to do with Trump or his supporters.

It's people like you who keep making excuses for the political machine that has had its boot on the neck of SWPA taxpayers for even longer that are at the root of the problem and why things will never, ever change.

1

sebileis t1_itwm7uv wrote

One look at your profile is enough to tell me nobody takes you seriously. Enjoy selling those sex toys!

−1