Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

SqlHill t1_iua84y9 wrote

Reply to comment by InfamousLegato in Two Teens Charged in Shooting Outside of Pittsburgh Church by Urbanette

Great work by the police. They quickly found surveillance footage, reviewed it, and identified where these two were staying. Catching them with the weapons means they have a strong case against them and it won't end up in an acquittal like the BBQ shooting a few years ago.

This case is a good example to point to when defund extremists start talking about how the police don't do anything.

17

Tight_Departure_2983 t1_iuaiwzo wrote

> defund extremists

Really disrespectful way to characterize folks who don't think that the largest expenditure to a city's entire operating budget should go towards police, lol.

When you overfund one particular public service for so many decades, to the detriment of the rest of our services, I suppose it gets normalized. Then y'all just call us extremists for wanting to get back to normal.

>They quickly found surveillance footage, reviewed it, and identified where these two were staying.

You don't need a metric shit ton of money to do this. This is an example of basic, but competent, police work. These 2 kids weren't exactly hard to find..

28

SqlHill t1_iuajbet wrote

I don't think your position is an extreme position. Happy to have the conversation about increasing funding for other public services.

However, I do consider it an extreme position to abolish the police and prisons, which is exactly what certain groups advocate for.

19

bogboogie t1_iuanowf wrote

I don't know, I could be wrong but I've noticed the rhetoric has significantly changed in the past 2 years to rethinking how much we fund those systems and how they are trained and vetted, rather than abolishing them completely.

4

JAK3CAL t1_iubapiq wrote

I have absolutely seen ACAB and abolish police as strong messages.

17

StudyIntelligent5691 t1_iuc3b7o wrote

Seen it where? In graffiti on a wall? Defunding the police was a poorly thought-out slogan from the jump, and most folks realized it. The fact is, despite what Republicans would have you think, police forces have NOT been “defunded”, in fact many have had funding increased. There were some attempts early on in some cities, but it didn’t last long.

−5

bfhurricane t1_iucu94c wrote

> Seen it where?

Literally all over this very website. There is no shortage of people claiming that cops are an arm of an unjust system with a monopoly in violence that must be dismantled. I see it every day. I distinctly remember when posts would reach the front page of Reddit that claimed “yes, we actually do support defunding police, literally.”

Since the midterms are coming up, I’ve seen a wave of both “hey, we support the police!” posts on Reddit as well as tons of “pro public safety” advertisements in my state television ads to try to turn the tide. Which has pissed off a lot of my progressive friends at my school (CMU).

11

StudyIntelligent5691 t1_iud589d wrote

I guess I should have qualified. My point is that defunding the police has not actually occurred, number one, and if anything police forces have had increased funding. Rightwing Republicans have jumped all over this “message” and used it forcefully against Democrats, portraying us as soft on crime, etc. I think the original crux of the slogan was intentionally misunderstood, but that’s what happens when people just spew words without thinking.

−1

ZealousParsnip t1_iue2av8 wrote

>Portraying us as soft on crime.

West coast cities do that effectively with no outside messaging.

0

StudyIntelligent5691 t1_iufcc2o wrote

In the latest data available, there was definitely a surge in crime during 2020, especially in murders and assaults. The murder rate went up nearly 30% across the country. More than 75% involved guns, and murders and assaults increased by varying percentages in urban, suburban, and rural areas as well. According to the Brennan Institute for Justice, those rates “rose roughly equally in cities run by Democrats and cities run by Republicans,” and “so-called red states actually saw some of the highest rates of all.” I’ve seen similar data reported from various sources (FBI, CDC, etc.). You can search all kinds of data sources for yourself, but this idea being pushed that it’s only liberal, Democratic states/cities experiencing a surge is plain propaganda.

2

ZealousParsnip t1_iufkbgj wrote

I firmly believe the rise is worse in Liberal cities, not necessarily of violent crime, but of property crime and quality of life crime. The downside is I can't prove it at all and have to go off of what I know from living in a very liberal city (Seattle.) People quit reporting crime to the cops, there was no point. You'd get shit stolen and you just wouldn't bother filing a report because they will never get your stuff back, and you'll be waiting hours just on the hope somebody shows up. I know tons of people who were victimized via crime and we all went through the same thing with not reporting it.

That this isn't a convincing argument and purely anecdotal I am aware, but sadly I think there is something to it. No idea how you rectify that beyond me saying "just trust me bro" which again, I get is not convincing.

0

StudyIntelligent5691 t1_iujhhvm wrote

I can’t speak to the situation in Seattle because I’m not from there. In fact, I’ve never had the pleasure of visiting your beautiful city. I have, however, done some research, and it seems that certain sections of your city do have higher than average crime, especially property crime, so you’re sharing your own experience, and that’s certainly valid. But then you go off…and for some reason, even though I presented you with information that says otherwise, you’re just absolutely certain that “liberal cities” have worse crime. By your own admission, you have no proof, nor does it seem as if you’ve really spent any time trying to gather data on this topic. Instead, again by your own admission, it’s just a feeling you have. It’s a feeling you have, and you think there’s “something to it.” This type of confirmation bias is exactly what permits untruths to take hold and cause damage. I hope you’ll think about it a little, and try to figure out why you’re satisfied with coming to conclusions in this manner.

0

ZealousParsnip t1_iujnbss wrote

Like I said, i know it's not a compelling argument. But the problem with gathering any information on it is crime isn't being reported. It's common knowledge that it isn't, but obviously there's no data to support it, because it's not being reported.

If there was any way to see actual numbers instead of just reported crimes I'd love to, but again it's not possible to have numbers on things not reported. I don't expect anyone to be convinced by that as an argument though.

1

ventorun t1_iub18mh wrote

Maybe in Pittsburgh, but meanwhile in Philadelphia and many other cities, no cash bail is still very much a thing. And look at the new law passed in Illinois. The SAFE-T Act there is going to be a disaster. So there’s no reason for police to risk their lives to arrest someone that is going to be back out on the street in an hour. And here’s a hint: Those cities have one political party in common.

11

ZealousParsnip t1_iue264u wrote

That's a main stream walk back by Dems. Because defund and abolish the police poll exceedingly poorly.

Defund the police originally meant exactly what it says. Now it's just watered down

2

StudyIntelligent5691 t1_iuc4137 wrote

I can see how it’s viewed as an extreme position, though I strongly agree with the previous poster that the truth is most of many urban budgets goes to law enforcement, sometimes at the detriment of other serious needs. “Defund the police “, unfortunately, was thrown out there without sufficient thought behind it, and even though it hasn’t happened, Republicans have jumped on it and made liberals, Democrats, etc., look like idiots who don’t care about crime. Of course, that isn’t true, and the police have NOT been “defunded.”

3

bfhurricane t1_iuctrl4 wrote

So do you believe that Pittsburgh should have less police? Seriously, I’m genuinely curious what your issue with our police budget is.

The vast majority of the city’s police budget goes to salaries. I’m curious what you would cut it by or what your logic is about why it’s overfunded.

6

just_an_ordinary_guy t1_iuavupk wrote

Holy shit, the cops did their job once despite a very poor case closure rate and you're all "see, the defund people are wrong." The defund people aren't even against cop doing normal cop shit. They want the finite resources we have to be spread to actual useful stuff for the stuff cops are asked to do that isn't cop shit, like helping the homeless and having mental health interventions not be lead by roided up jackboots itching to kill.

5

SqlHill t1_iub5m8i wrote

Case study of one - Pigeon Bagel in Squirrel Hill had a "defund the police" sign up last year. I asked "what does that mean? like move resources around?" Woman working at Pigeons' response was "no, it means abolish the police."

So at least some of the defund people mean completely defund and abolish the police.

26

Willow-girl t1_iub8ol0 wrote

> Pigeon Bagel in Squirrel Hill had a "defund the police" sign up

So that means if they were robbed, they wouldn't call the cops, right?

17

chad4359 t1_iuc2nz5 wrote

Oh no, as soon as they are affected they call the police and then bitch to the news that the police don't care about them

13

just_an_ordinary_guy t1_iudl1vi wrote

Unfortunately, the system is set up that you are required to use the police to access your insurance. Even if they didn't want the cops to come and blast someone away over property, they still need a police report to be made whole.

−1

bfhurricane t1_iucujnz wrote

So what does “defund the police” in Pittsburgh mean to you?

0

just_an_ordinary_guy t1_iudnbyo wrote

The defund movement, by and large, is about shifting some money and resources to other organizations that are better equipped to deal with the mixed roles cops are expected to have. Leaving cops to do normal cop shit like dealing with violent crime and such. It came from people co-opting the "abolish the police" movement, which I personally prefer since "defund" thinks cops can be reformed, and "abolish" thinks the current system of policing is beyond reform and we need to eliminate police altogether and structure a better means to address the problems cops have historically had in their jurisdiction.

5