JAK3CAL t1_iubapiq wrote on October 30, 2022 at 12:31 AM

Reply to comment by bogboogie in Two Teens Charged in Shooting Outside of Pittsburgh Church by Urbanette

I have absolutely seen ACAB and abolish police as strong messages.

StudyIntelligent5691 t1_iuc3b7o wrote on October 30, 2022 at 4:48 AM

Seen it where? In graffiti on a wall? Defunding the police was a poorly thought-out slogan from the jump, and most folks realized it. The fact is, despite what Republicans would have you think, police forces have NOT been “defunded”, in fact many have had funding increased. There were some attempts early on in some cities, but it didn’t last long.

bfhurricane t1_iucu94c wrote on October 30, 2022 at 10:53 AM

> Seen it where?

Literally all over this very website. There is no shortage of people claiming that cops are an arm of an unjust system with a monopoly in violence that must be dismantled. I see it every day. I distinctly remember when posts would reach the front page of Reddit that claimed “yes, we actually do support defunding police, literally.”

Since the midterms are coming up, I’ve seen a wave of both “hey, we support the police!” posts on Reddit as well as tons of “pro public safety” advertisements in my state television ads to try to turn the tide. Which has pissed off a lot of my progressive friends at my school (CMU).

StudyIntelligent5691 t1_iud589d wrote on October 30, 2022 at 12:56 PM

I guess I should have qualified. My point is that defunding the police has not actually occurred, number one, and if anything police forces have had increased funding. Rightwing Republicans have jumped all over this “message” and used it forcefully against Democrats, portraying us as soft on crime, etc. I think the original crux of the slogan was intentionally misunderstood, but that’s what happens when people just spew words without thinking.

ZealousParsnip t1_iue2av8 wrote on October 30, 2022 at 5:02 PM

>Portraying us as soft on crime.

West coast cities do that effectively with no outside messaging.

StudyIntelligent5691 t1_iufcc2o wrote on October 30, 2022 at 10:07 PM

In the latest data available, there was definitely a surge in crime during 2020, especially in murders and assaults. The murder rate went up nearly 30% across the country. More than 75% involved guns, and murders and assaults increased by varying percentages in urban, suburban, and rural areas as well. According to the Brennan Institute for Justice, those rates “rose roughly equally in cities run by Democrats and cities run by Republicans,” and “so-called red states actually saw some of the highest rates of all.” I’ve seen similar data reported from various sources (FBI, CDC, etc.). You can search all kinds of data sources for yourself, but this idea being pushed that it’s only liberal, Democratic states/cities experiencing a surge is plain propaganda.

ZealousParsnip t1_iufkbgj wrote on October 30, 2022 at 11:04 PM

I firmly believe the rise is worse in Liberal cities, not necessarily of violent crime, but of property crime and quality of life crime. The downside is I can't prove it at all and have to go off of what I know from living in a very liberal city (Seattle.) People quit reporting crime to the cops, there was no point. You'd get shit stolen and you just wouldn't bother filing a report because they will never get your stuff back, and you'll be waiting hours just on the hope somebody shows up. I know tons of people who were victimized via crime and we all went through the same thing with not reporting it.

That this isn't a convincing argument and purely anecdotal I am aware, but sadly I think there is something to it. No idea how you rectify that beyond me saying "just trust me bro" which again, I get is not convincing.

StudyIntelligent5691 t1_iujhhvm wrote on October 31, 2022 at 8:11 PM

I can’t speak to the situation in Seattle because I’m not from there. In fact, I’ve never had the pleasure of visiting your beautiful city. I have, however, done some research, and it seems that certain sections of your city do have higher than average crime, especially property crime, so you’re sharing your own experience, and that’s certainly valid. But then you go off…and for some reason, even though I presented you with information that says otherwise, you’re just absolutely certain that “liberal cities” have worse crime. By your own admission, you have no proof, nor does it seem as if you’ve really spent any time trying to gather data on this topic. Instead, again by your own admission, it’s just a feeling you have. It’s a feeling you have, and you think there’s “something to it.” This type of confirmation bias is exactly what permits untruths to take hold and cause damage. I hope you’ll think about it a little, and try to figure out why you’re satisfied with coming to conclusions in this manner.

ZealousParsnip t1_iujnbss wrote on October 31, 2022 at 8:50 PM

Like I said, i know it's not a compelling argument. But the problem with gathering any information on it is crime isn't being reported. It's common knowledge that it isn't, but obviously there's no data to support it, because it's not being reported.

If there was any way to see actual numbers instead of just reported crimes I'd love to, but again it's not possible to have numbers on things not reported. I don't expect anyone to be convinced by that as an argument though.