Submitted by Big-Cockroach-5986 t3_yhd240 in pittsburgh
I enjoyed the robot greens and the concept of vertical farming. The business also donated and was supportive of the community.
Only online reference I saw was a Pittsburgh Business Times article. https://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/news/2022/10/29/vertical-farming-startup-fifth-season-shuts-down.html
Do you know what their eventual plans were? Would they have continued to build the robots, and grow, market, and distribute the produce? Or sell the equipment to a grocery chain or produce distributor?
It’s my understanding that the robotics and the mechanics were very confidential which lends me the idea that the equipment will most likely be destroyed unless they sell the “patents”.
The VCs will want to sell the IP.
It just seems the best business model would be to license the technology to a Whole Foods or weggmans or giant eagle. Let them do the marketing and distribution.
do you know their rough yearly revenue?
there's a bunch of folks on linkedin effectively confirming this via posts about being laid off. ive not seen any official comms from the company itself, but it seems over.
i'm really into hydroponics and nerd shit, so i'm a bit sad this didn't work out. im wondering if maybe the scale needs to be significantly larger before all the nerd shit starts making financial sense?
One of the biggest hurdles to automation is just how hard our economy exploits human workers. Why invest in an expensive robot when the minimum wage is $7.25*/hour? Not too mention, humans are much easier to replace when they break.
*except for disabled workers, gig workers, undocumented immigrants, etc.
I agree with this 100% and generally believe that most people are wildly underpaid these days, but I suspect the bigger issue in this specific case is more along the lines of trying to be both a 'vertical farming' company and a robotics company at the same time without the scale needed to make vertical integration worthwhile or the market needed to pay for the robotics part of the company
like if i spent $20 million on developing hair cutting robots and then opened a couple robot barber shops that made $500,000/year, you could accurately describe me as a revenue generating hair cutting company. that doesn't necessarily mean it's good business sense to keep pouring money into r&d. if the market for the robots isn't there or if the robots aren't even market-ready, it might just be a bad idea, even if the haircuts themselves are really good (or if the robots start making really good salads)
They had such a hard on for being a “robotics” company (previously called RoBotany) but the reality is, you can have a vertical farm run completely by humans if it is done safely.
7.25? No one in agriculture or warehouse jobs are getting paid 7.25.
That's disappointing, was really hoping it would work for them and their employees. Also, thought other local media outlets may pick up on the fact a second ai-based Pittsburgh tech company laid off a 100 or so employees in the span of a week. Local effect of economic trends impacting growth start-up companies?
> Local effect of economic trends impacting growth start-up companies?
yeah i think if you're funded by VC money right now and aren't looking at being profitable in the short term, you might be in for a rough time. i get that fifth season was generating revenue, but that might not be enough to justify ongoing R&D costs or even enough to cover operational costs at the scale they were working in (pure, pulled-from-ass speculation here, please don't take it as fact.)
a lot of companies / investors seem to be bracing for the worst. couple that with interest rates rising and i wouldn't be looking for employment at VC backed jobs anytime soon.
Yep there’s a lot of cold feet in this investing world right now due to the political climate, Ukraine, inflation, etc etc. It’s not the golden age of investing like it was a few years ago
I also wonder about the viability of a lot of these business models and whether investors got all razzle-dazzled with the 'tech' aspect.
I mean, take something like food delivery -- if there was actual money to be made there, don't you think stores and restaurants would have been delivering their goods all along?
Throwing an app into the mix evidently makes it sexy enough to warrant investment, but ... color me unconvinced.
I think the next couple of years are going to see a lot of these ventures go belly-up ... in fact, it has the potential to be the next crash.
People are still sitting on mountains of high value cash, but the risk appetite is super low at the moment. Add that to financials finally catching up the tech that all of this capital was funding and here we are.
And let’s be honest, vertical farming is far less efficient than just actual farming in a country with nearly unlimited arable soil.
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Paywall:
Fifth Season, a Pittsburgh-based indoor vertical farming startup that used advanced robotics to grow a variety of leafy greens for distribution in salad kits sold at hundreds of grocery stores, has shut down. According to multiple sources familiar with the matter, the revenue-producing startup officially closed its doors on Friday. It employed about 100 workers, most of whom reported to its headquarters in The Highline building on the South Side while others worked out of its 60,000-square-foot indoor farming facility in Braddock. A representative from the company declined to speak on the record about the startup's closing at this time. Details on what led to its closure remain unknown, though it comes amid a local and national backdrop of difficult times for capital-heavy tech startups seeking additional investments amid tightening economic conditions. The closure of Fifth Season is the latest blow to Pittsburgh's startup community as it comes just days after Strip District-based autonomous vehicle startup Argo AI announced it, too, had closed. Argo's local employment reached about 800 workers across the region and nearly 2,000 people worldwide. A Carnegie Mellon University spinout founded in 2016 by CEO Austin Webb, Chief Operating Officer Brac Webb and Chief Technology Officer Austin Lawrence, Fifth Season went on to raise $75 million in outside investments. Like Argo, Fifth Season's shuttering follows a period of significant milestones for the company. Just weeks ago, the company announced a new salad product and a complete redesign of its packaging. In September, it offered a media tour of its Braddock farm to celebrate the full activation of its on-site microgrid that is capable of supplying 1,360 kilowatts of electricity to the site during peak usage. That followed the August announcement that Fifth Season began offering its salad kits at local Whole Foods locations, the latest addition to the more than 750 grocery stores where consumers could find its products.
I know someone who works there and can confirm that, yes, it is done.
Confirmed. It’s done.
The stuff they produced was pretty tasty, but with the economy being what it is, I definitely couldn’t afford to buy it more than a couple of times a month. I hope another hydroponic produce company buys the space.
I liked their salads when they were at GetGo, but let’s be honest. Nobody was going to subscribe to their $9 salad plan.
Got a tax incentive to build a farm in a low income neighborhood, promised to hire within the neighborhood, didn’t pay said employees a livable wage, charged an outrageous amount of money for a tiny bit of salad, a topping, and a dressing in uppity stores like Whole Foods.
I'm from the area and this angers me. No different than the fracking industry. Were they going to try to grow pot.
They were not going to grow pot. Many high dollar investment avenues immediately close when you start with growing pot as it’s still federally banned. Source:worked there for years Anna aka shewolf has an axe to grind and her comments do not paint the whole picture.
Did they ax the Columbus farm?
Yes. The company will no longer be in operation.
We definitely have an axe to grind. If you weren’t in the farm with us and were one of the many who built things that constantly broke, and fixing these things resulted in injuries. Weird way to put that we were treated poorly, never listened too, and extremely underpaid. But if “axe to grind” is how ya wanna put it 🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
May I kindly remind you that doxing someone is against the rules.
I came in early, worked through my lunch breaks, worked late, almost every day, and worked weekends and I was never taken seriously as a dedicated employee so you’re damn right I have an “axe to grind”.
There were talks about it but with the way PA controls medical marijuana and the only few farms we have controlling the entire industry, it was probably not going to happen for quite some time.
I think that they bailed when they did because of the Fetterman/Oz debate. They were likely counting on Fetterman to help get pot legalized at the federal level. The election is probably going Oz's way right about now. I don't like Oz but it seems a bit funky that they went out just before the elections.
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“Going crazy about” I had the exact same problems. There were only 4 of us that worked day in and day out in that farm. So unless you’re one of us you truly have no idea. We were totally separate and did not have the same respect given. Words like “crazy” is really unbecoming. It’s even more of tell of the abuse and continued brushing off of dealing with abusive coworkers for nearly 2 years.
I meant crazy as ranting but could not think of the word at the time. I worked there for over a year and never saw and coworkers abuse each other. not sure if it was just the department I was in but there never were any problems and all workers got along. If something like that did occur why wasn't it ever reported. Management was more than friendly and helpful
An abusive employee was reported multiple times until they blew up in a meeting and scared the crap out of all of us and was finally let go.
You worked in the office then. With 1 female. At one point there were 3? Maybe? The wearhouse and farm were an entirely different world. Our works was complete opposite. Crazy is not a respectable term to use, especially when we are referring to the abusive work environment we endured. So think a little longer next time. And while management was helpful for you, the only manager that was helpful for us was our farm manager. He was met with roadblock after roadblock when trying to make our work life better.
Calling a female “crazy” for telling my truth is the exact kind of sexism I am speaking about.
The more I read this the more disgusting “I am unsure what she wolf is RANTING about but in my time spent at the company HER “PROBLEMS” were never an issue with other employees and just her and seems to be exaggerating.” Gets. As another person is here confirming all of this with first hand documented experience. Was present for all of this and was also treated the same.
Wouldn't surprise me given the bloodbath that has been the tech sector lately.
Growth based companies are dead in the water as long as interest rate hikes continue and the liquidity train runs dry.
I'm glad I saw this story. I was at the Giant Eagle today and noticed it wasn't available this time. I was really fond of their greens. I'm kind of curious what precipitated the closure. It seemed like a pretty lean business model that didn't depend on anything excessive, fancy, or expensive. My intuition tells me like any other startup, they were probably pricing below their true costs.
Former employee here and this does not surprise me one bit.
Somebody call Ben, 'cause it's happening again There's water all o'er the floor. Everybody stop! Grab a squeegee and a mop, And let those shop vacs roar. The water backs up when the drain pipes freeze, Now I'm in the trough on my hands and knees, Just a little break from the monotany 'Cause it's just another day at RoBotanyyyyy.
This just made me laugh soooooo hard!
😂😂😂 this still haunts my dreams
Did you work in production?
I was a grower that wore “many different hats” that was extremely underpaid (even did store promotions for no pay) and promised promotions that never came. It was an extremely dangerous place to work. OSHA would’ve had a field day.
I am so sorry to hear that. My son actually was looking at 5th Season for employment. Was the equipment dangerous or was it chemicals?
Mechanical equipment with no safety equipment, crawling over a scissor lift railing 3 stories tall and reaching over to get on the catwalks, carrying heavy equipment up and down ladders, multiple (severe) chemical burns because there were no SDS sheets or proper attire given to us in order to properly handle dangerous chemicals. My last straw was a getting poisoned by a gas that left my lungs permanently damaged. It was a “good ol’ boys club where women weren’t respected. Multiple reports of sexual and racial jokes and discrimination. I could go on and on about the misconducts of that company.
Edit to add:
They were also dumping chemicals into the sewer and drains that should have been disposed off safely and properly.
We were also throwing away pounds and POUNDS of perfectly good produce that could’ve been donated. I suggested 412 Food Rescue and even came in on my day off, unpaid, to set up an appointment but they poopooed my idea. (Again, would not take any female ideas or advice seriously.)
They were more concerned with hiring farmers that had worked for celebrities for the notoriety, than promoting from within with perfectly qualified employees who have been with the company from the beginning and sacrificed their physical well-beings (literal blood, sweat, and tears) for the sake of the company because we believed in it.
This job absolutely ruined my body and my physical well being. I can no longer do what I am qualified to do and had to give up my passion because I’m simply not physically able to do what I love to do because of the permanent damages that were done to my body because of this job.
Also another former employee and can confirm all of what is said above. I documented a lot of my time there, was verbally and physically abused on multiple occasions, have permanent life long injuries that I require PT for in a regular basis.
What the hell? This sounds like a sweat shop. CMU involvement? Sounds like a bunch of frat boys.
DING DING DING DING!!!
I thought the tech eliminated people on scissor lifts, no?
It did. These two employees left before the Braddock facility was operational.
And thank GOD we did!
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All of it.
We both basically ran the farm and created most of the procedures that were probably used until they closed. We worked in the original R&D farm and despite 2 years of hard work (legitimately blood, sweat, and tears), being under paid, having to deal with abusive coworkers despite multiple reports, and constantly under minded/dismissed at every turn, we could no longer mentally and physically do it. We didn’t just quit, we both are physically limited now and cannot work fully in our industry.
And that “hush” money.
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They would be a pretty reliable source
This is very disappointing. I liked their products and how I didn’t have to go to a specialty store to find them.
Never heard of this place until right now. Not that it's a bad concept, but I immediately thought why would you do this here. Wherever you stand in the city of Pittsburgh, you are never more than 20 miles from Maine plots of farmable land. I understand the green element at play but this seems like an odd place to do this
They were probably doing it in Pittsburgh because it was started by people from CMU and land is still relatively cheap around here compared to other places where you can find robotics workers.
Ah that makes a lot of sense
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Holy fuck! I called this about...3ish years ago. Literally said to my partner they'll be closed within 5 years. I interviewed for a fairly high up position when they were still, ummmm crap I can't remember the name before they rebranded to Fifth Season and started the farm in Braddock. I got an offer but declined bc it just wasn't a good fit for me personally and I could see the "overworked, underpaid, work long hours, long days, etc., etc." vibes written all over it (as any VC tech startup has I suppose). It just wasn't for me.
Any observations about their business practices? I am seeing a few posts here implying they weren’t a very well run company
Not particularly, unfortunately. It was in their infancy stage before they were even bringing a cpg to market. They were still developing tech but were actively growing microgreens. This is before they rebranded as Fifth Season or even moved to Braddock. It seem like a group of young, very smart kids who were being given lots of vc money but didn't have really good sense of what it meant to run a company, hr practices, hiring and retaining people. The one kicker for me was part of offer, in lieu of actual money, was an investment in the company. I said, nah pay me market value for the position, but their offer had a % of that salary as investment. Mixed with long hours, overworked, etc. I said thanks but no thanks. In my dealings they seemed a little in over their heads. They did say their long range idea WAS to sell the tech, but perhaps that changed as they moved on.
I see, thanks. I always have a certain fascination with failed start ups, but sadly the answer is usually as simple as “ not enough people were willing to buy what they were selling“.
Here, I’m a little shocked that they thought salad kits was ever going to bring in enough money to cover major investments. Like, a Mexican farm plus a freezer truck is always going to be cheaper than you. That’s just the way it is
And yeah, if they got 75 million in funding they could’ve paid you the market rate.
Reflecting on this, I bet it’s the USD-Peso exchange rate that did them in. Their competitors’ lettuce got 30% cheaper while their own lettuce got (via wage / input cost inflation) more expensive.
Dodged a bullet on that one.
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somecreativehandle t1_iudiw26 wrote
As a former employee up until yesterday, yes this is unfortunately true.