Submitted by balou918 t3_yg1evl in pittsburgh
How can a city like Pittsburgh be so ridiculously unaccessible for disabled people? There’s not a single flat sidewalk, not even around the universities. It’s awesome.
Edit: more than “flat”, I meant to say that the sidewalks are all broken/uneven.
I came here to post this smart ass remark. No fair!
being hilly doesn't preclude the city from providing even-surfaced sidewalks that aren't obstructed by trees/scooters/cars/etc for disabled people, though
It's not about it being hilly. It's about all the sidewalks being broken and uneven.
it's frustrating for sure. in my neighborhood we have the already uneven sidewalks coupled with ones that either aren't wide enough for wheeled mobility aides, cars that park on the sidewalks because that' s either just how they always have done it or they can't be bothered to park a block away from their house, or cinder blocks to stop people from parking on the wrong side of the road/sidewalk
Absolutely, and if you don't drive is even worse.
It's because we are right in the constant freeze thaw zone. Roads and sidewalks don't hold up to that. Eventually that will go away from global warming.
oh my glob, yes, especially with the crappy transit, but hey we have those scooters, right? *laughcries*
No, I know what you mean. This is often the reason given when people complain about roads. It was funny to see it in the context of sidewalks.
Anyway, I'm sure the property owner's insurance carrier would be interested in this. 311 /might/ also be able to help; I'm not sure if the property owner can be cited.
Does it?
Bike lanes are so tight, there is hardly enough room.
This city is old. The only way it could ever be pedestrian friendly is to literally tear out everything and start over
Climate, topography, etc.
Its just not that way...
I went to school up at edinboro.
Its all flat. Much more wheelchair friendly....despite the snow
So the disabled ppl actually have a bigger need for accessibility than just ‘pedestrians’ that’s minimization
It’s not just abled people walking in the city
Its not minimization.
Its reality. The city was built forever ago. You want nore handicap accesibility...that means major infrastructure overhall.
That means tearing down buildings and widening roads and sidewalks.
Much how they did in buffalo.
You still need adequate drainage and curbing, to reduce freeze thaw and maintenance costs.
Actually it’s legally required but ok lol be mad about it. Enjoy your bike lanes and have a night
Also this post is literally about disabled ppl 😂😂
What? No shit. But ada compliance relies on havung the space to do so. Something that is a finite resource in the city....
Topography, good sir
Mhm, it’s great >!/s!<
I think I used the wrong adjective. What I was trying to say is that all the sidewalks are broken and/or uneven. It’s impossible for someone with a manual wheelchair to go around without help. Especially if you take public transportation.
You haven’t spent 5 min in a wheelchair.
The property owner is responsible for maintaining the sidewalk, not the city
Or just prioritize cars less on the existing streets
[removed]
I’m disabled, that’s why I put an “/s”
I believe Uber and Lyft have wheelchair vans in other cities but in Pittsburgh we have to rely on the spotty Access system if you need to go somewhere not easily accessible by bus. And how many times have you been blocked from entering a business by the one step at the entrance to so many in the East End? Sometimes I find that single step more frustrating than a big staircase.
It's so bad for crosswalks too. So many streets need lights that don't have them. I'm thinking about getting a cane so drivers know I have low vision
It's not something I ever really noticed until I started pushing a stroller around. It really opened my eyes to how terrible the sidewalks are and inaccessibility in general.
Even the cutouts to get up on the sidewalk from the crosswalk---a lot of times the cutouts on either side of the street don't even line up and you have to do this weird maneuver around all the other people. It's insane. I know I only experience a fraction of the inconvenience you do though. I'm sorry you have to deal with it
You can’t handle perfectly level
Thank you! ♥ I also hadn't noticed it before. I'm not disabled, but my boyfriend is, and pushing him around is a pain. I do it with all my love, but sometimes he gets so pissed off at how the sidewalks are that he just wants to go back home. I don't blame him. We're trying to get him an electric wheelchair to make it a little bit better, but our apartment building has stairs, so we'd need to get that fixed beforehand. But you still have those weird cutouts that you mentioned, no matter what kind of chair you have... or people parking horribly and not leaving enough space for you to go through.
I don't know what you mean. If you were trying to say that the sidewalks can't be perfect, that's absolutely obvious and no one is expecting that to happen. But between that and how the reality is there is a huge gap.
Are you able to offer a comparison of literally anywhere else? Not saying you're wrong but I've driven through, let's say Downtown Cleveland for instance and I would have a hard time saying that what you're describing here in Pittsburgh as being unique. Again not that it doesn't suck but like I would imagine that in general, sidewalks are nonexistent or terrible in most places outside of affluent areas.
Plus because of the age and inclement weather, and hills; it’s a infrastructure nightmare. I feel for folks in this scenario but I also understand this is a brutal city to try to retrofit to be suddenly pedestrian accessible; much less tolerable for disabled folks.
> This city is old. The only way it could ever be pedestrian friendly is to literally tear out everything and start over
Older than Stuttgart? Vienna? Paris? London?
I was completely ignorant of how bad it is, then my partner became wheelchair dependent. What an eye opener, it’s embarrassing.
Access, at least when I tried to use it 20-odd years ago, required you to be pre-registered with the system [which took 6 months for reasons they couldn't explain], then required 24 hour notice of any non-pre-scheduled trips and I forget how long if you wanted a daily-type of schedule (like, for work).
Then YOU must be early at the pickup point, to make sure there at the right time, but they can show up whenever.
It was a nightmare to try to use.
In the meantime it's made the Main public library in Oakland temporarily less accessible, BUT they're renovating the front entrance to have a ramp that's long enough for it to have a shallow enough angle. They're also replacing the accessible lift/elevator in the front, which was hellishly overdue for that treatment.
Pittsburgh has some really bad sidewalk conditions, though. Have you been here in the winter yet? Homeowners and renters are responsible for clearing their sidewalk of snow and ice. I think 50% of people actually do, though. Plus there are the ones that "clear" by just throwing down rock salt/ice melt that sticks around as pebbles.
My two favorite "trying to navigate Pittsburgh while disabled" tales:
Under poor planning: In the South Side, one of the kerb cuts was right next to a sewer grate with wide bars, facing the same way as you'd travel, not against. So you risked wheels getting stuck in the grate.
In the Selfish Jerks category: I parked in a lot at the South Side Works and was coming up the sidewalk with some friends. As we approached a building with a driveway, someone pulled into the driveway - right in front of us - parked their car on the sidewalk instead of pulling all the way in, jumped out, and ran off.
We spent 5 minutes standing there trying to decide whether to key his car.
Thank you for explaining this from a geospatial perspective as I came to do, I assume you are also a geographer. Not everything is a conspiracy or intentional injustice against marginalized people, rarely there are less sinister and more mundane causes. This isn't the best city to live in for people, its growth was caused because the region could be exploited for its numerous resources conducive to heavy manufacturing, and had access to easy transportation of goods via the rivers, not because it was suited for human habitation. If all these factors didn't exist, there would not be a major city here, the only advantage it has is being being at the confluence of two major rivers. The challenges of building a major city in this terrain had to be greatly outweighed by what it could offer. The terrain here makes building things that other cities take for granted infinitely more difficult.
Hopefully the OP can help spread awareness of these issues, and work to ensure that politicians are elected that are empathetic to the plight of people living with disabilities. So that this poorly maintained infrastructure can receive the funding to be able to serve the community properly.
Large portions of those cities were either partially or completely destroyed by wars in the last 150 years and thus were rebuilt all at once allowing for better planning. Also as mentioned above they have more forgiving terrain and weather. Most Cities from those countries that actually retain their historic city plans suffer from many of the same accessibility issues that Pittsburgh does. I agree with the main point about how we need to maintain our sidewalks better and just generally improve infrastructure but you examples aren't very good.
Not a geographer at all. Just a software engineer.
I’m in a similar boat where I never noticed it until I started skateboarding and it’s infuriating (not as a skateboarder, I mean from an accessibility standpoint)
That is way more impressive to be honest.
I'm blown away with how difficult it is to use the One-Step program to get more buildings to be accessible.
> Large portions of those cities were either partially or completely destroyed by wars in the last 150 years and thus were rebuilt all at once allowing for better planning
Are you claiming that after WWII London, Vienna, Paris, and Stuttgart widened their streets or changed the map?
In my neighborhood, they park completely on the sidewalk. For whatever reason they can’t park farther than 5 feet from their front door. That leaves the walkers no choice but to walk in the street.
I hate it when ppl do that, they are so entitled when it comes to illegal parking
Our public transit was destroyed, while investment also left the region. So now there are a bunch of cars and trucks everywhere putting wear-and-tear on roads and parking on sidewalks. Since they decided to put cars first, repairing roads gets priority over sidewalks. Also, a lot of the roads are just too narrow and there isn't enough parking for a high volume f personal vehicles, further adding to the problem. Real investment in transit needs to happen to have any hope of fully solving this problem. Other than that, it'll just be little fixes on the edges.
Lack of tree maintenance. A lot of bad sidewalks are due to roots growing because someone 50 years ago planted an oak tree 2 inches from the sidewalk. I love trees. You have to if you are from here. But... there are some places a person needs to be careful what is planted.
On any streets with trees, the roots push up the sidewalks. The only permanent solution is to cut down the trees. The cost to have old sidewalks jack hammered up and new sidewalks poured is thousands of dollars. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck and can't afford to replace.
It's bad enough that the sidewalks are inaccessible but when restaurants, stores, or even hospitals aren't accessible as well, it's just all around frustrating.
Pre-COVID, my sibling Taylor (not their real name) had to go to physical therapy within the hospital 3 times a week in the city. Since our mom is hella talkative, she tends to make friends and for awhile they allowed her to park in a specific parking lot next to the building so she didn't have to push Taylor too far, which was great. Well the department changed hands, so sadly she was forced to park across the street, up a hill, pay a token, etc.
Mom is the smallest in the family and Taylor's weight can fluctuate from 200-300lbs depending on their sickness. So when I found out she had to navigate/push Taylor through cracked, uneven sidewalks downhill and they both almost wiped out from broken concrete, I was furious. I called around the hospital to see if I could just pay for a spot, "hire" someone to help her push Taylor, anything but no one would help. Sorry for the vent, but It's just absolutely ridiculous and not fair to anyone. This whole damn city needs an overhaul but we all know that's most likely not gonna happen in our lifetime.
Excuses. Some of the most accessible cities in the world are old cities with weird layouts and/or in cold places. And plenty of Pittsburgh is at reasonable grades.
We’ve chosen not to invest in makes our streets better for everyone. Aligned sidewalk ramps. Wider sidewalks at the expense of roadway width (we all end up as sidewalk users). Modern sidewalk materials and maintenance.
And stop fucking parking on sidewalks, you pieces of shit.
Or someone is parked on the cutout...
Parking on the sidewalk happens everywhere in the city. It's crazy.
There's even a downtown surface lot that uses the sidewalk on Penn when their lot is full, with no enforcement from the city stopping them.
In neighborhoods that 'we' often means the homeowner themselves. They are usually responsible for the 'public' sidewalk to the curb. The city and boroughs could offer incentives for repair but at $10k or more for a reasonable house's frontage, lots of folks are noping out of that.
I find that publicly or public service organization owned sidewalks are pretty reasonable - ramps and bump indicators at the intersections I think are all city so calling 311 can probably make some movement there. But I live in north Oakland: compare the sidewalks in front of little nippers and tamarind (and neighborhoods) to the high dollar ones outside Oakland Catholic, PNC bank, and the new cmu residence hall.
I’m very happy that they’re renovating the library. The entrance they have right now (for wheelchairs) is like going inside a cave, the chair doesn’t almost fit and it makes you feel everything but welcome.
We’ve been here in the winter, and unfortunately when there’s snow around my partner has to stay at home unless we pay for an uber/lyft. That’s why we’re trying to go out as much as possible atm.
I completely agree with you. They also need to make some changes in the training that transit drivers receive. A bunch of them take off without giving you time to secure the wheelchair/asking if you’re good, or seem to get annoyed because you, in fact, have special needs.
Never heard of that program. Can you tell me more?
I’m so sorry your sibling had to go through that. My boyfriend needs medical care every week too, and we don’t drive. A few times I’ve had to take him to UPMC St. Margaret, and the closest bus stop isn’t close to the entrance at all. Some people on this thread seem to believe that I’m asking for a complete renovation of the city, and I’m not. Sometimes small things, like making an adjustment in the transit system or in the parking lot, can make a big difference.
I didn’t realize this til after they fixed the sidewalk crossing Birmingham bridge. They put the stop light pole in the middle of the sidewalk they carved out. I watched a wheelchair get completely stuck. They had to cross the street just to cross the other street again to get to the library. I felt awful honestly. Wish i coulda done something to help but there was a no way a wheel chair was getting into a carved in sidewalk with a pole in the middle
Sidewalks are the responsibility of the homeowner or business. NOT the government
Most of the cities in that list don't have to deal with the things Pittsburgh does.
Singapore is flat, mostly built up after cars were around and is close to the equator and so it doesn't have the freeze/thaw cycle.
Denver, while high up, is dry and with the exception of the western outskirts mostly flat and able to be gridded pretty cleanly.
Barcelona is ancient and not made for cars, but has a very temperate climate and so it also doesn't have that freeze/thaw thing going on.
Warsaw's flat. Melbourne's kinda flat.
Oslo - well you have me there.
I wasn’t blaming anyone in particular; you’re assuming otherwise.
Yes, it literally happened all over Europe and the world. Its a common historical trend in fact, most cities after facing significant destruction, take advantage of the opportunity to replan the city and make significant changes. In addition to long term redesigns of the city starting in the 1840s, Paris was completely rebuilt following its destruction in the Franco Prussian War. London widened some of their main streets throughout the 1800s but did take advantage of the damage done by the blitz to rebuilt portions of the city with wider streets. If you go to London you can see which areas were hit hardest through how wide the streets are. Stuttgart was heavily bombed in WW2, and completely rebuilt after. Vienna also suffered significant destruction during the World Wars and rebuilt with wider roads
Pssst. The city actually can do things to compel the ppl to keep them more accessible (like ticketing ppl who illegally park on them, ticketing ppl who don’t clear them of hazards like ice and snow after storms, etc)
Now we just get rebranding (whyyyy) and more lines being cut 🥲🥲
Some of our polling places are inaccessible because of those single steps needed to get into the building. It’s horrid
Best city in PA that seems best accessible, for walking, biking, cleanliness and handi capable access sidewalks is truly State College. They really invest well in their infrastructure.
> 1840s, Paris was completely rebuilt following its destruction in the Franco Prussian War. London widened some of their main streets throughout the 1800s
Last I checked those dates were all well before WWII that I'd asked about.
Welcome to Pittsburgh. Have you seen a Pittsburgh chair yet? 🙄
Obviously, yes. I’ve lived here for over a decade. I’m not sure what you think you accomplished here 😂😂
Because of the topography, and in the past the snowfall and lack of city plowing, the Pittsburgh chair, and the cinderblocks, have been part of the culture since the 1930’s-40’s. I remember my grandmother talking about it when she was growing up and she was born in 1923. My point is that the cinderblock and the parking issues have been around for decades. It’s only now, with gentrification that their may be money in the coffers to fix the sidewalks, or at least have inspectors cite property owners to fix their sidewalks and maintain them, but we’re not there yet. It’s taken decades to get the city to where it’s at now and it’s on a good path with regard to accessibility. We’re not there yet. But in the end I think you’re going to be fighting an uphill battle to remove the “reserved parking” for those who shovel their own spot.
Ok so i know what parking chairs are used for n’at. I may only have been here since 2011 but I have many friends who have families that have lived here for generations. Also i didn’t ask for explanation so idk what that’s about. But. Ok. Also I’m not talking abt that, i thought i was clear in my original comment but:
These are cinder blocks that literally never move and are in place purely to prevent anyone from ever parking there because ppl will park on the wrong side of the road, on the sidewalk, because they don’t want to park a block or more away from their houses.
The blocks are in place to stop everyone from parking there 100% of the time. Even the ppl who live in the house and put the blocks there don’t park there bc there’s no parking allowed on that side & it’s dangerous to have cars parked on both sides of my narrow street.
Oh and this would all be improved if the city made meaningful investments in our transit systems beyond rebranding
Well it's bad elsewhere, so it should be bad here too.
People have been disabled since the beginning of times.
I doubt it would be improved quickly. Our transit system of independent providers supposedly worked really well with 32 independent providers before they would put out of business by the creation of PAT. They served the individual communities and provided much better service. PAT or whatever the new branding is has always been a political nightmare run by ineptitude, nepotism and lazy short sightedness
I am not all all familiar with this particular cinder block issue. Candidly I’ve never seen it. My family moved here in 1839.
The horrible cave-like entrance is so bad and scary. I'm not sure what the new one will be like, but it's got to be better than what's there now.
That sucks that your partner is so boxed in during the winter by sidewalk conditions. What are your favorite, accessible places in the city? I love the Hazelwood Green for walks because the sidewalks are so new that most of them are still smooth and the whole place feels like a perfect urban park (even though it's technically privately owned).
I would definitely encourage you to get that cane if you're able. I really don't trust drivers to not expect you/us/pedestrians to be the ones to get out of the way. Hopefully the cane would get through to them.
You are a very good person
I don't know why you are being downvoted. This is true in Pittsburgh. That's why they are shitty. Because everyone is collectively responsible.
That's inexcusable, seems like a violation of your civil rights.
That's still how it works, you have to call early the previous morning to book a trip, except on Friday you can book for Sat.-Sun.-Mon. Sometimes they are short on drivers so you are turned down. If you have a long awaited appointment with a specialist or a medical procedure you don't know if you can show up until the previous day. And forget spending bucks on a theater, concert, or sports event ticket, cause you might get a nope! I've waited as long as 2 1/2 hours for them to show up to pick me up going home. I see them pick up people who have been on dialysis all day, and feel awful for how they have to wait.
Odd_Description_2295 t1_iu6bhg3 wrote
Its hilly.