Submitted by [deleted] t3_xxxbts in pittsburgh
[deleted]
Comments
westinghousesghost t1_ireazm9 wrote
The bucket truck parked in the closed left lane had the boom extended over the open right lane. Semis don't stop on a dime no matter the speed, and it was likely poorly lit. While I agree with your point, it sounds like this was not purely a case of reckless driving in a construction zone.
[deleted] OP t1_iree4pz wrote
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AnnoyedHippo t1_ireehwc wrote
It's unclear how many were on site, however every person there has what's called "Stop work authority". There's not a construction site or safety briefing in this country that doesn't cover that if you see something unsafe you have the authority to put a stop to it.
Everyone on that site is responsible.
Wouldwoodchuck t1_irez7fq wrote
That is all good on paper but the reality may have been different. It often comes down to culture and if the workers truly believe that if they use their stop work authority, there won’t be negative repercussions.
BannedSvenhoek86 t1_irf5voo wrote
Ya at my company they stress repeatedly that if you issue a stop work there will never be a negative consequence if you don't use it excessively. They beat it into us so we know even the apprentices have the ability to do it if they think it's unsafe.
On the other hand I've worked for some who never even mention a stop work authority and you just knew if you did it you were getting screamed at.
I'm guessing this company was one of the latter ones.
Wouldwoodchuck t1_irf65p8 wrote
Yup, hopefully the old ways are fading… just not fast enough for this guy unfortunately. Glad you are at a better spot these days. Cheers
BannedSvenhoek86 t1_irf6je7 wrote
Thanks buddy. This company is fantastic, even if I won't name them here.
Wouldwoodchuck t1_irf6uhq wrote
Smart. Be well
bellatrix_gamma t1_irf1q1a wrote
Do we know what company this employee worked for?
koolkeithsdad t1_irveans wrote
Avalotis
[deleted] OP t1_irff24l wrote
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GargantuanWitch t1_irfge8d wrote
Because it costs less to bid out work than it does to have it done by your own people?
I mean, this isn't anything new. Every municipality does this. It's written in the bylaws of practically every town in the area that this is how infra improvements/capital purchases are made.
[deleted] OP t1_irfgnr2 wrote
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tinypauline t1_irgcukl wrote
Maybe you mean well, but you have no idea what you’re talking about. Public sector projects in PA are required to pay workers prevailing wages, which are based on union rates. Capital construction projects need concentrations of specific trades for each phase of the project: equipment operators for excavation and earthwork, laborers for site cleanup, cement finishers & ironworkers for foundations, more ironworkers for steel erecting, painters, and so forth. A public agency can’t keep those workers busy full time, all year long. That’s why they hire contractors. This man’s death is a terrible tragedy, don’t use it for uninformed virtue signaling.
HeinousAnalMist t1_irgh994 wrote
Fuck yeah!
GargantuanWitch t1_irfi7tq wrote
No, it has everything to do with "The people who live and pay taxes in the municipality get to choose where their money is spent, and not allow Mr. and Mrs. Councilperson to tell their nephew, who runs Townsville Public Works, to pave the road because he plows the snow in the wintertime, too."
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>I'm thinking it has more to do with allowing a company to hire people for less than the value of their labor, then skim the "extra" money for profits.
There isn't a conspiracy hidden in plain sight for every misconception you have about the way the world works. Stop looking for one.
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>All government contracts should be cancelled and all government functions completed in-house.
And all kids should have their homework done before they watch cartoons.
gullible_guy t1_irh1lqc wrote
The problem here is, people continue to talk about things they know nothing about because they sit on this site daily and read things people know nothing about and have zero real world experience in any of this.
tesla3by3 t1_irg1pea wrote
Governments issue contracts to private businesses to handle things that would not make sense to do in house.
gullible_guy t1_irh1h5z wrote
God damn it you are not smart. Please stick to bagging groceries.
gullible_guy t1_irh1fj6 wrote
You clearly have no idea how inefficient that actually would be.
westinghousesghost t1_ireegsk wrote
It's also quite possible the bucket worker made the move himself. I absolutely don't want to sound like I'm blaming him here, please don't take it that way, but the reality is workers often knowingly cut corners and cause accidents independently of anyone else and despite training.
Cryptic_Skies t1_irepo5q wrote
as someone who once spent a summer in a bucket truck, this is unfortunately true.
westinghousesghost t1_ireqibc wrote
I used to supervise a warehouse...the lack of give-a-shit among the associates (for work ethic, safety, quality, anything) was astounding. I quit that job after 2 guys committed a huge safety violation (which they had been trained numerous times over 2 years of work to avoid) and the regional manager blocked my efforts to fire them for it.
SendAstronomy t1_iret0bp wrote
The unwritten rule at a lot of jobs. You have to do things the safe way, but management will look the other way so the job can be done fast/cheap.
Same thing in information technology. Companies will outright ignore security to do it fast/cheap. Occasionally they will sacrifice an employee to take the blame when they get hacked.
And the bigger the company the less likely they will get held to account. Look at how many credit card breaches happen every year.
westinghousesghost t1_ireyfed wrote
>The unwritten rule at a lot of jobs. You have to do things the safe way, but management will look the other way so the job can be done fast/cheap.
Ain't that the truth. My current job involves occasionally using a boom lift. I have experience with them and use appropriate safety gear, but I'm not technically certified. For my own safety and liability, I make sure I stay well within my limited range of skills with it. But there's one area I need to use it that I don't feel safe using it (on a grade, enough to set the grade alarm off). People, and my boss, keep telling me ways to do it, and I'm just like "nope, pay someone who knows what they're doing to do it, not worth it to me." Don't make employees do things they don't feel safe doing.
Cryptic_Skies t1_irerkuz wrote
i spent a summer in a warehouse as part of a contracted team. i completely agree with you. my team was fired because two of our members refused to follow basic safety protocols and caused $5k worth of damage.
as for the bucket truck...while i never did anything that would endanger my life, there were several situations where safety could no longer be first, only because the task could otherwise not be completed.
BigHugeTime t1_irgksuy wrote
Bro wouldn’t have fell 80 feet if he was harnessed in the way he should have been.
deVriesse t1_irh0yrs wrote
It always blows my mind how much I have to yell at people for endangering themselves just to make their employer more money faster.
o_c_d t1_iref3pe wrote
We learned nothing then from the fiu collapse. Working over traffic. Smh
ballsonthewall t1_irecerc wrote
... I think I misinterpreted what happened when I first read the article. Consider that first comment a general PSA unrelated to the incident then.
heili t1_ireo7l6 wrote
Also from the article it says that he was ejected and fell. Was he wearing a fall protection kit? Was it even possible for the semi to see the bucket in time to stop? Why was the boom extended over a live traffic lane? This sounds like a lot of safety corners were cut.
evward t1_irf0gy0 wrote
I’m confused about how the semi hit the bucket and caused him to fall from the overpass. The overpass is like 75 feet up. So if the bucket is low enough to be hit then it is nowhere near the overpass.
heili t1_irf1odj wrote
So best I can tell is that he was here: https://goo.gl/maps/esGatTESg1on76St5
He had his bucket truck in the left lane with his bucket extended over the right lane and was low enough that the truck hit the bucket, which knocked him out of the bucket and off of the elevated portion of 376 onto the ground near or on Second Ave here: https://goo.gl/maps/Lav49NNK5SKx2oZVA
A fall like that would only be possible if he was not wearing safety restraints.
evward t1_irf2s79 wrote
Thank you for clarifying. I reread the article and I had missed the part where his bucket truck was in the left lane of outbound 376
steelcitykid t1_irfhpyo wrote
Man I hope he died on impact. Can you imagine getting hit, perhaps not even seeing it coming, and you're just suddenly and violently thrown airborne flipping about and falling 70+ feet? And all this at 3AM where if the driver didn't know they hit anything, and/or the bucket operator was working alone, you're just waiting to expire until someone finds you smeared on the street below.
Rough way to go, hope the job site operators catch hell for that.
Bolmac t1_irf5fh5 wrote
Was there any evidence to suggest that the truck driver was driving inappropriately, or that they were in any way at fault for this? I didn't see anything to suggest this.
Red_Scare867 t1_ireroiq wrote
Drivers will not stop driving like maniacs until road design forces them to. People routinely drive 20-30 mph over on 376 because the road design allows them to.
CARLEtheCamry t1_irfslih wrote
> People routinely drive 20-30 mph over on 376 because the road design allows them to.
What do you want them to do, put a roundabout in the middle of 376?
Red_Scare867 t1_irga5vf wrote
Roundabouts are far from the only way to limit speeding. Plenty of countries in Europe have figured this out, but I guess in the US we just have to continue to play dumb as car related deaths continue to skyrocket.
covertchipmunk t1_irfqxs6 wrote
No idea why this is downvoted. Speed limit signs mean jack to most drivers.
Bolmac t1_irfycvz wrote
Maybe it's because there is nothing here to indicate that speeding or "driving like maniacs" had anything to do with this incident, and that people suggesting otherwise are just jumping to unsupported conclusions because they came into this with an axe to grind.
Red_Scare867 t1_irgabps wrote
The comment I responded to explicitly mentioned driving like “insane people in construction zones”. The context is important. I didn’t leave this as a top level comment.
CARLEtheCamry t1_irfsws4 wrote
If you have a flat stretch of highway, what practical way would you have to prevent speeding other than police enforcement?
burritoace t1_irgei98 wrote
>If you have a flat stretch of highway,
We don't have that around here
CARLEtheCamry t1_irgj9ax wrote
So I know you're exaggerating but the interstate highway system was literally created to address the inadequacy of existing highways in the event of war to evacuate citizens and move nukes around. There are certain standards they have to adhere to - for example the S-bends on I-79 between Robinson and Neville Island have a lower speed limit and rollover warning because they exceed those tolerances due to having to snake through the hills. And trucks regularly flip there, still.
Red_Scare867 t1_irgalwb wrote
Narrow the lanes for starters. The US had absurdly wide lanes already. They do this successfully in plenty of countries in Europe. Why do we have to be stuck in 1950? There are plenty of real world examples of road diets that work, but US traffic engineers value the travel times of drivers above all else. That includes the lives of the drivers and the ones around them.
CARLEtheCamry t1_irgjezn wrote
> Narrow the lanes for starters. The US had absurdly wide lanes already. They do this successfully in plenty of countries in Europe.
Narrowing lanes is another city/urban traffic calming strategy (which I am in favor of). I can't find it being applied on any highways. If you can link me a source I'll stand corrected.
Red_Scare867 t1_irgjy67 wrote
Highway lanes in the US are 12 feet wide. Highway lanes in the Netherlands and Japan are 3.25 meters which is more than a foot more narrow than our lanes in the US.
CARLEtheCamry t1_irgol2s wrote
OK, but was that done as a function of improving safety, or just the standard they adopted?
The Federal Highway has this to say on the subject (emphasis mine) :
> Speed is a primary consideration when evaluating potential adverse impacts of lane width on safety. On high-speed, rural two-lane highways, an increased risk of cross-centerline head-on or cross-centerline sideswipe crashes is a concern because drivers may have more difficulty staying within the travel lane. On any high-speed roadway, the primary safety concerns with reductions in lane width are crash types related to lane departure, including run-off-road crashes. The mitigation strategies for lane width presented in Chapter 4 focus on reducing the probability of these crashes.
> In a reduced-speed urban environment, the effects of reduced lane width are different. On such facilities, the risk of lane-departure crashes is less. The design objective is often how to best distribute limited cross-sectional width to maximize safety for a wide variety of roadway users. Narrower lane widths may be chosen to manage or reduce speed and shorten crossing distances for pedestrians
So I interpret that as narrower highways are more dangerous, and they have standards to reduce speed to account for that. To go back to my original point - even if you narrowed the lanes and reduced the speed limit to say 45 instead of 55 - people are still going to speed. And they're going to get into more accidents if the lanes are narrower. They already drop the speed limit on most of I-376 to 55 as opposed to the "normal" 70mph, to less than desirable effect.
The only place I see people regularly not speeding on 376 is the business loop around the airport, because International Drive is or has been the #1 speed trap in the state. I pass it daily on my commute. It actually drops down to 40mph as you approach University Blvd and they enforce it. Otherwise, to paraphrase R Kelly, speed limit ain't nothin but a number.
Wouldwoodchuck t1_ireywsj wrote
This. What ever your rushing to, isn’t worth a life.
tzeriel t1_iree5ez wrote
I’ve spent a lot of time in bucket trucks. What a fucking awful way to go.
defaultclouds t1_irgg3ot wrote
Is that like a JLG??
tzeriel t1_irgh2wb wrote
Yes and no. a JLG is it's own unit only for lifting. A bucket truck is literally a truck with an extendable boom and bucket on it
defaultclouds t1_irh0wfp wrote
Oh right da i got it now!
xnick58 t1_ireeg76 wrote
This is the second time someone died by falling off that section of 376 onto 2nd ave. Not saying the accidents have any relation, just a strange coincidence.
KermieJagger t1_irfmle3 wrote
Yeah two very sad incidents.
That other one with the two guys going over the side affected me deeply. Maybe it was because the one guy had stopped to help the other guy and they both perished.
RockinSteadyClyde t1_iri2cfj wrote
That was heartbreaking.
[deleted] OP t1_irezwpx wrote
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xnick58 t1_irf2g2m wrote
I did not. Not sure who that is.
djohnny_mclandola t1_ireewsh wrote
It sounds to me like he wasn’t wearing his harness and/or didn’t have the lanyard attached to the bucket, so he went for a ride.
heili t1_ireobkc wrote
Ejected from the bucket and fell from the overpass really sounds like no fall protection device was in use at the time.
dehehn t1_irfc2j7 wrote
Worked on safety training on this subject. Way too many workers don't use or don't properly use their fall protection. Too many people feel like the don't need it. Too much of a hassle. Slows them down.
You never need it until you do. Falls are the main way construction workers die these days.
djohnny_mclandola t1_irfndwr wrote
The guys who work in bucket trucks don’t like to follow basic safety even though they are sitting in something that’s essentially a catapult. I’m surprised this doesn’t happen more often.
Anji_Mito t1_irf19mi wrote
That's what I wanna mention, fall protection would have saved his life, maybe some skin rash or something, maybe a broken bone but still alive.
Worked in construction before and we had to be picky on this, some people even standing out of the bucket.
steelcitykid t1_irfi1vx wrote
Disclaimer: I know nothing of the normal safety and PPE gear such a worker should/would normally be wearing but where does it attach to normally? If the tractor was driving at highway speeds even without a load the force it would collide with the bucket and operator is tremendous.
just_an_ordinary_guy t1_irh3iwt wrote
Thing with something like a bucket truck or boom lift is that they can basically act as a catapult. The harness would be attached with a lanyard somewhere on the boom or in the basket/bucket within operator reach. An accident can still involve injury, and possibly even death. But if you're wearing a harness and lanyard, it keeps ya from getting ejected, ejection being much less survivable.
Don't want to speak ill of the dead or speculate too much, but there were very likely multiple safety rules being broken. From PPE, maybe traffic control, maybe inexperience. Won't know until the investigation is done.
Pappyjang t1_irekrz2 wrote
I blame all the shitty drivers I see every day on 376. Y’all are ridiculous
westinghousesghost t1_irepbz2 wrote
This sounds like it has way more to do with poor safety practices and almost nothing to do with shitty drivers
Pappyjang t1_irf6pu0 wrote
Source?
westinghousesghost t1_irf7j6l wrote
Read the article - it says the truck was parked in the left lane, which was closed, and the boom was extended over the right lane, which was open. Big no-no. Semis, regardless of speed, don't stop on a dime, and at that time of day, lighting is poor. This is bad safety practice on the part of the worker(s) for putting someone in the path of danger, a truck was bound to hit him in that position.
Pappyjang t1_irf81yu wrote
Ah I see. Still have some really shitty drivers on 376 bound to cause something horrific like this. U are correct tho sir
CARLEtheCamry t1_irfywcy wrote
Yeah and it was the garbage truck's fault that Haskins got run over in Florida running across the highway at night high as hell. /r/fuckcars amirite
Pappyjang t1_irg258o wrote
Dang u have a small brain
westinghousesghost t1_irf8mp3 wrote
Agreed. People need to chill.
ace_account456 t1_iren5z0 wrote
There are probably multiple factors at fault here, but it is a huge problem. I don't feel safe doing any less than 60, even in the right lane because I will always get passed by crazy people going 75+ who don't know what a turn signal is, swerving all over the road. Sometimes I wonder if the road would benefit from raising the speed limit to 65 in certain areas, but then cracking down hard on speeding with automated enforcement like they have in Europe. Between Churchill and Monroeville, the curves are absolutely banked hard enough for 65. Really, the only spot outside of city limits where that would be dangerous is the curve headed inbound right after the Churchill on ramp. If you go through that at 65 in the rain, especially on a top heavy vehicle, there could be problems.
[deleted] OP t1_irepzfm wrote
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arguchik t1_irep52a wrote
This area needs that and other kinds of automated enforcement. Red light cameras, for starters, backed by high enough fines to discourage people from gunning it to "make" a light they should know will turn red long before they get there anyway.
tylamb19 t1_irf4437 wrote
Automated enforcement which issues actual tickets is not legal in PA as well as most other states in the US.
The work zone speeding enforcement that started in 2020 issues “violations” which cannot affect a driver’s record and there is no real way to collect the revenue from the driver other than just to send them to a collections agency. You can’t renew your registration with an outstanding , but that’s about the only penalty.
CARLEtheCamry t1_irfz4kd wrote
> issues “violations” which cannot affect a driver’s record
Well shit, that's stupid. There was an old thread where some guy mentioned that he sped through one of the auto-enforced work zones every day for like 2 weeks and I was like "bye bye license", I guess not.
the_real_xuth t1_irf6wrt wrote
I agree that it's not legal currently. The problem is that PA is unique in the manner and extent that it undercuts or even disallows enforcement of its laws against many forms of dangerous driving. And I don't know how this is going to be fixed because driving dangerously with respect to other people without suffering any consequences for it seems to be wildly popular in this state and with the state legislature.
steelcitykid t1_irfj24c wrote
My landlord got his workzone violation sent to his old address (my home) and I opened one accidentally - Inside it had a picture of his vehicle/plate, speed violation, and a small paragraph stating it was a warning but that later this year, they would start collecting actual fines for such violations.
tylamb19 t1_irfzas8 wrote
Yep - the “real fines” are still not actually a ticket though. It’s a “violation notice” and does not affect your driving record, insurance, or anything else. It’s purely monetary. Most people don’t know that though.
arguchik t1_irgkx34 wrote
Frustrating
tylamb19 t1_iriohyf wrote
I wouldn’t necessarily call it frustrating. It’s a constitutional right to face your accuser in a court of law. If a computer installed on the side of the road is your accuser then there is not a way to face them in court. You also have the right to be considered innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. If you state you weren’t driving at the time, and there isn’t a human who can verify beyond a reasonable doubt that he processed your license and got your signature on the ticket, you have to be presumed innocent. Both of these reasons is how and why the work zone enforcement can’t issue anything legally binding. PennDOT can codify into their rules that the owner is responsible for their vehicle then issue “violations” against your vehicle registration. An actual legally binding citation is issued to the person, who is presumed innocent until proven guilty.
As much as I wish we had better traffic enforcement, especially on highways around here, undermining constitutional rights is not a great way to do it. These are all the reasons other states have taken away most of their red light cameras and speed cameras that issue actual tickets. Most issue tickets against a vehicle and do the same thing our work zone enforcement does.
[deleted] OP t1_irf4264 wrote
[deleted]
jirenlagen t1_irermvu wrote
Me too. Ridiculous and clearly in a hurry to meet God or whoever or whatever the afterlife has in store.
soupsoup1326 t1_ireeik3 wrote
Where did they say the person was a bridge painter? All the articles I’ve seen including this one generically said construction worker.
Edit: Not sure why all the down votes. Bridge painters ARE construction workers. I was asking simply where the OP had heard specifically that the worker was a bridge painter, since every article so far has been pretty sparse with details.
arashmara t1_ireenzs wrote
I work on this site.
Bridge painters are construction workers.
soupsoup1326 t1_irefbid wrote
I wasn’t implying that they aren’t. Just that no articles had said anything more specific than the generic term “construction worker”. Thank you for the clarification. And damn sorry to hear that. Stay safe out there.
Shoddy-Internal8654 t1_irf1nyx wrote
My husband is a bridge painter down on the Clemente Bridge and we saw the news first thing this morning. He instantly said it was a bridge painter because he drives by there each day and knows the company on that site. I haven’t seen it actually published that way yet either, just still using construction worker. But those bridge painters definitely fall under that category.
arashmara t1_irf30ze wrote
I used to paint transmission lines before doing bridge work. Painting bridges is way more dangerous in every aspect of the job.
PGHENGR t1_ireq2q6 wrote
Who’s the company doing the work?
NoSwimmers45 t1_ireg2ly wrote
It happened overnight and most early articles had no definitive information from the authorities. It’s certainly possible an update has been issued and this article was published or amended after that information release.
scriggle-jigg t1_irer4ik wrote
drivers are insane in this city. everyone is in such a hurry, like slow the fuck down and enjoy life.
ShimpaBaba t1_irf5n9c wrote
Why don't they have a harness from waist to bucket?.
just_an_ordinary_guy t1_irh2uc2 wrote
They're required to, but from my experience a lot of folks take safety shortcuts even when they aren't being pressured by a boss. Harness and a lanyard is required on this type of equipment, but it sounds like he wasn't wearing it.
defaultclouds t1_irggyr5 wrote
I’m a painter. I’ll say this was unfortunate to say the least. Prayers to his family and friends.
B52me_tosleep t1_irexmot wrote
Did the semi realize what happened and stop?
arashmara t1_irexww2 wrote
I don't know all the details.
The overnight crew was working today. I work in the morning and found out when arrivied on site.
tesla3by3 t1_irg2jub wrote
Has anyone noticed that, to a layman, there are a lot of construction zones that don't seem to be taking proper safety precautions. Example-- I drove 28 NB last week. It was one lane, with a jersey barrier on the right. Then there was no jersey barrier for several hundred feet, and workers in the lane to my right with absolutely no barrier.
RazzmatazzMinimum714 t1_irr9hyq wrote
Am I reading the article from the P-G correctly, that the semi hit the truck itself, and not the boom? If that's the case, then it wouldn't matter if the bucket truck was parked in one lane and the bucket was over the other. The article stated that the truck was "spun around". The unfortunate worker would have been flung out in any case.
gullible_guy t1_irh1clz wrote
Straight to prison for this person.
just_an_ordinary_guy t1_irh1w3k wrote
From the sounds of it, this wasn't the semi driver's fault.
awayanywayaway t1_irf1sf7 wrote
ITT: speculating about a dead guy to feel smart
ballsonthewall t1_ireap7x wrote
hence why people need to stop driving like insane people in construction zones. lives are at stake