Submitted by Tomofpittsburgh t3_z25wu7 in pittsburgh
Comments
Thoraxe474 t1_ixh7e7a wrote
Yeah I googled "air quality" and the top result is an ad for US Steel that says "Get to know "#USSteel - doing our part in the #MonValley" and talks about air quality
hydrospanner t1_ixhgo64 wrote
Going above and beyond doing their part(s per million) for our local air quality.
DaKaSigma t1_ixes4id wrote
Our entire pollution control system is the wind, isn’t it?
JAK3CAL t1_ixff4t6 wrote
Can’t you paint with all the colors?
alwaysboopthesnoot t1_ixfwdwm wrote
…of the wind!
chippyinairplane t1_ixetple wrote
Of course US Steel will do absolutely nothing about it.
Early_Platypus_8855 t1_ixfctx6 wrote
chippyinairplane t1_ixffzzu wrote
Looks like hardly any significant changes with little consequence if not compliant. Not sure why you’d want to defend corporations that willingly will shed years off your life.
[deleted] t1_ixfh60f wrote
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Kelbsnotawesome t1_ixfices wrote
If there was a threat of imprisonment for non-compliance for air pollution, we’d probably not have a reliable supply of electricity anymore.
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Kelbsnotawesome t1_ixfmv0v wrote
Normally capitalism doesn’t include the state throwing people in jail for producing things but you’re right, I’m sure a free market solution would come about from that in time.
[deleted] t1_ixfnj7y wrote
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Kelbsnotawesome t1_ixfxf8x wrote
Explain to me, in a realistic way, how you meet the demands of electricity in Pittsburgh in the year 2022 without thermal power plants. I understand you want to punish polluters, but there’s not a viable alternative yet.
Do you know anything about Title V air permits? Coming in and out of compliance is a common occurrence and companies and regulators work closely together to set standards based on the best available technology. If you’re concerned about the air quality, take it up with the PA DEQ.
[deleted] t1_ixg4puu wrote
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chuckie512 t1_ixhdgj7 wrote
The majority of our power in the city is nuclear, from the Beaver plant.
We were even able to shut down our local coal power plant recently.
chuckie512 t1_ixfnjdq wrote
Capitalism also isn't supposed to include us subsidizing producers with children's lives.
chuckie512 t1_ixfitwy wrote
We've shut down our coal powerplant even. Hell, Pittsburgh gets the majority of it's power today from the Beaver nuclear plant.
ThirtyYearGrump t1_ixfg1pq wrote
“Don’t believe your lying eyes and National Weather Service, the county’s immense powers have nipped this in the bud!” /s
chuckie512 t1_ixfelnm wrote
Except that they still frequently get fined for violating it.
chuckie512 t1_ixhemps wrote
It's been so effective, the AQI is now higher than they were predicting. In the red.
https://twitter.com/GASPPgh/status/1595385819551891461?t=Sxqj6LxRaQ18e7KVT_lWPg&s=19
SamPost t1_ixg617z wrote
Well, given that the local voters just voted in the same politicians allowing the ACHD to ignore these blatant federal clean air act violations, you should expect more of the same for years to come.
For 200 blue collar jobs we have degraded and disgraced our entire city.
jayjaywalker3 t1_ixhiho3 wrote
Also most of the union jobs (at least at the ClairtonCokeworks) are held by people who don't live in the county.
Phobophilic t1_ixfbut4 wrote
I'm a bit confused. They issued the alert for the next day.
Does that mean there wouldn't be enough expected wind to blow away the expected emissions that were reported? Does that mean that there are greater than expected emissions? Something else?
Early_Platypus_8855 t1_ixfcepb wrote
A temperature inversion is likely forecast.
chuckie512 t1_ixff7s8 wrote
The weather implies that the pollutants will stay close to the ground, and the polluting companies won't do anything about it.
SendAstronomy t1_ixhij4f wrote
The weather report said very little wind, which basically guaranteed the plant's normal pollution rate will set off the alert.
Which is worse than the plant generating more pollution than usual. All of the big pollution events in history were connected with unusual weather that held the pollution in place.
chuckie512 t1_ixiecvj wrote
>unusual weather
This happens several times a year, sometimes up to a week at a time. It's not really all that unusual.
pedantic_comments t1_ixf81k0 wrote
The good news is that you won’t want to go outside anyway because it smells like shit too.
Itsjustataco t1_ixfaq6j wrote
I received notice that they just got their permit renewed. I don't see why we can't refuse to renew
[deleted] t1_ixfgzjt wrote
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Ordinary_Pain1848 t1_ixfe131 wrote
US Steel as in agreement with ACHD staggers production on inversion days. Each coke battery will shut down operations for a few hours throughout the day instead of all operational batteries continuously pushing and charging ovens. This is in an attempt to help limit the PM2.5 emissions. Usually it’s 4 hour increments on each battery unit.
chuckie512 t1_ixffgra wrote
Very successful plan given how the air is still painful to breathe during these events.
Ordinary_Pain1848 t1_ixfhy4c wrote
If you have a better idea on how to curtail emissions from the 17 PM2.5 contributors in the Mon Valley may I suggest you apply for a job with ACHD. They seem quite confident that things are moving in a positive direction.
https://www.alleghenycounty.us/News/2021/Health-Department-2021/6442473822.aspx
Copied straight from the ACHD website, with link below:
“Note: On April 15, 2022, the Allegheny County Health Department learned that for the second year in a row, the county has met federal air quality standards for fine particulate matter (PM2.5) at all eight air quality monitors. This table shows the highest air quality concentrations recorded at any site over the most recent three years (based on maximum three-year averages), given by pollutant and averaging duration.”
https://www.alleghenycounty.us/Health-Department/Programs/Air-Quality/Monitored-Data.aspx
This is the 2nd time ever, prior to 2020 that these monitors have met the federal standard since their inception in 1999. Also of note is that only the Liberty monitor in all those years prior had prevented the county from reaching those standards. If things are as bad people claim they are, achieving such a goal would not be happening.
chuckie512 t1_ixfinqx wrote
Yeah, my suggestion is for us steel to move into the 21 century and use electric arc mills, or shut down.
We pay more in excess healthcare than USS provides to the community. We could save money as a community paying all the steel workers to retire.
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Ordinary_Pain1848 t1_ixfkt6w wrote
If it was that easy, USS would have shut Clairton and the corresponding plants years ago. The reality is that these 3 Mon Valley plants are US Steel’s cheapest cost per ton producer of steel in the company’s portfolio. Even cheaper then the new state of the art Big River Steel at Osceola, AR.
It being cheaper to pay for the steel workers healthcare by forcing the plants to close vs it being open is not realistic. Take away the tax base Clairton Coke Works provides and would the city be able to survive without falling back into Act 47 dependency from the state?
Braddock is still in Act 47 dependency even with Edgar Thomson Plant operating in it’s city limits. What is going to replace this enormous tax base? Our air is “cleaner” now. But our local economies tank to levels not seen since likely the 1980’s and big steel’s permanent collapse. How many of these former steel mill towns have been able to recover 40 years later?
Clairton Mill closes, backstreet burger probably closes. speedway closes. It’s a ripple effect that goes beyond just the plant itself. These businesses were not put there to sustain just off of the city itself.
Are the local communities going to pay for the railroad workers retirement too because the mill was forced to shut down? They were dependent on the mill to make a living, too. Local owner operator truck drivers delivering products or hauling products out of the mills?
As much disdain it may bring you to see these plants operational, they are a critical part of the Mon Valley’s ecosystem. You can’t just replace 3,000 well paying jobs overnight.
chuckie512 t1_ixfl4g7 wrote
>The reality is that these 3 Mon Valley plants are US Steel’s cheapest cost per ton producer of steel in the company’s portfolio
Because we're subsidizing them with our lives.
Is a couple dozen jobs worth giving children decades long health issues? If we paid them out to retire, they'd still be in the tax base.
alwaysboopthesnoot t1_ixfxahb wrote
The federal government already pays ie:we the taxpayers already pay for railroad workers’ retirement. https://rrb.gov/
There is already a special, entirely separate system with special, extra coverage.
Should we also have to pay for the cleanup costs that the EPA and ACHD now pays to do, plus pay for the catastrophic medical care for everyone in the valley who suffers, after private companies privatize their profits but make taxpayers pay for their losses, and then take their own profits and close things down, and bolt?
Various_Tackle3069 t1_ixh32qg wrote
If your defending the US Steel plant in clairton you can fuck right off - shut down the plant until they install adequate scrubbers it’s not complicated.
Ordinary_Pain1848 t1_ixh4vzm wrote
You can try to ignore the cold hard facts all you’d like, doesn’t change anything. Clairton Coke Works is not even the No.1 Polluter in Allegheny County according to ACHD themselves.
That plant provides a shit load of well paying jobs that supports a lot of families. 1-3 batteries are shutting down in the spring anyways. People won’t be happy until it’s gone and another EPA superfund brown field eyesore for people to bitch about.
chuckie512 t1_ixhhnxw wrote
So you're saying that US Steel won't even bother to clean up their mess and we have to pay for that too?
They're so stupidly subsidized they can do something for our community, like not kill people.
Ordinary_Pain1848 t1_ixhkfbv wrote
No, my point is that no matter what the fuck US Steel does people will always say it’s “not good enough.”
SamPost t1_ixitlnf wrote
Weekly violations of a 40 year old law that almost every other company in the US manages to comply with is "not good enough". Let's start there.
chuckie512 t1_ixhhtd8 wrote
It's been so effective, that the EPA is saying it's safe to be outside in up to 15 minute increments today. Thanks US Steel!
Ordinary_Pain1848 t1_ixhkr2d wrote
You should consider applying for a job with ACHD since you clearly think you can do better. You must have all the answers that no one else has. So please, show us the way!
But hey, what do the people who work everyday on fixing this mess know?? But no, apparently they don’t because some fucking anon on Reddit who read a couple articles clearly knows much more because GASP told them so.
chuckie512 t1_ixhqctq wrote
What work had ACHD done? Fined them less than a day's worth of revenue for all their exceedences?
Ordinary_Pain1848 t1_ixhy0pb wrote
ACHD has the right to shut down Clairton Coke Works if they deviate from the agreement. That’s what they have the right to do. You try to run that plant without No.2 or No.5 Control Rooms and they shut them down. Period. It’s either you run with those plants on, or you don’t produce at all and you take your plant to idle hot until you conform with the agreement. That’s the consent decree they signed. They continuously show no intent on improving things, they will shut them down.
Have you ever been inside that plant? Do you even know what goes on in the day to day basis there?
People complained about Shenango Coke on Neville Island for years and now it’s gone. The air quality hasn’t changed since it’s closure.
You wanna say ACHD isn’t doing shit but what has the EPA and DEP done for heavy industry who run amok in our country?
Dow Chemical since 2000 has paid $273M in fines but made $11.4B in 2021 alone despite having one the most prolific offenses ever recorded in our country. They knowingly poisoned our waterways and got a slap on the wrist, if that!
They make US Steel look like innocent children in comparison.
So please chuckie512, tell us with all your holy Reddit power might what you would do to fix this problem. You are so adamant you know what you need to do, put your money where your mouth is and show us!
I’m so tired of people spouting on the internet armchair QBing thinking their shit don’t stink and they have the be all to end all solutions to fix the problem.
SamPost t1_ixiu0qm wrote
You keep acting like no one has a plan. Here is the plan:
Upgrade the facility into compliance with the existing law, like every other coke producer in North America or Europe, or shut down.
End of plan.
jayjaywalker3 t1_ixhmnnz wrote
If you smell or are otherwise experiencing foul air, please report it to the health department. They have cited low numbers of reports to say that there isn't a problem. You can report directly to the health department here: https://alleghenycounty.mycusthelp.com/WEBAPP/_rs/(S(35aswslwbnu4f1oylgxapty0))/SupportHome.aspx?sSessionID=&lp=10
Report it on Smell PGH too but the health department has a really bad habit of ignoring those reports.
chuckie512 t1_ixh75au wrote
"unhealthy for a all groups" AGI is over 160 as of this morning.
Yeah, great mitigation plans US Steel. Really helping your community.
Drcynic22 t1_ixgck9e wrote
My brother works at the damn plant and he has asthma. He not only refuses to take sick days, but he also works doubles frequently. He will probably work a double tomorrow because he’s a moron.
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[deleted] t1_ixeouqe wrote
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Thoraxe474 t1_ixh797s wrote
162 out in Irwin. In the red
[deleted] t1_ixhjhez wrote
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Important_Tip_9704 t1_ixgupdf wrote
So essentially, this is a warning that air pollution in our city, particularly today, is liable to trigger cardiac issues unless everybody stays inside and avoids strenuous activity? What compound are they detecting? Or is it simply an excess of the typical pollutant compounds? What does heart disease have to do with it? So many questions…
chuckie512 t1_ixh8a9l wrote
They're predicting an excess in PM2.5 (fine particulates), and in our area, that's almost always grouped with extra hydrogen sulfides, as they're both coming from the dilapidated coke works.
Your heart and lungs are pretty closely connected, hence the heart disease issues. If you're already having problems this will make them worse.
Individual_Catch_569 t1_ixhlvep wrote
Not defending them at all, however, they had a project in 2020 to modernize that plant and use steam to generate electricity and other major improvements. Then COVID hit. Then when the company applied for permits to actually do the project, the county denied it several times so they canceled it due to costs. The county can't have it both ways here, making them the villain but then shutting down any projects that would improve pollutants.
Captawesome814 t1_ixgy4nf wrote
I mean it’s Pittsburgh - the iron city - is this shocking to everyone? Did you not know steel was an inherent part of the the local economy and culture when you decided to move here from California?
Thoraxe474 t1_ixh7sfr wrote
Because people born here can't still want clean air and better quality of life for the home they've always lived in?
chuckie512 t1_ixh7qs5 wrote
What percentage of Allegheny county's economy do you think is steel?
How many sick children are you willing to have support it?
Captawesome814 t1_ixhpgpi wrote
Someone has to make steel in the world. Modern conveniences come with costs. The question is, how many sick children does it take for you to forsake your cars, tractors, appliances, bridges, buildings, and railroads?
chuckie512 t1_ixhpwkw wrote
There's absolutely cleaner ways to make steel. US Steel is literally making it the cheapest way possible right now, and we're subsidizing them by just accepting the health issues it creates.
Remember when they promised to clean up, then said lol no?
Captawesome814 t1_ixhqovi wrote
What is the cleaner way to make steel? I’ve worked at EAFs (which can only recycle steel, not make new pig iron) and I assure you they’re not any cleaner. You can scrub off-gasses all you want but at the end of the day iron is iron and coke is coke
SamPost t1_ixiuc6o wrote
The cleaner way is modern, upgraded scrubbers. Like they use everywhere else in the western world. They work, but cost more to run.
Captawesome814 t1_ixkjzqa wrote
You can’t put scrubbers on a coke furnace like a coal plant.
SamPost t1_ixks36h wrote
Of course you can. It is the normal practice in the western world. Just google "coke scrubbers" and get educated.
Captawesome814 t1_ixl9g9p wrote
Bro those furnaces are open hearth monsters built in the 20s for mass production of the time. You cannot
[deleted] t1_ixewd0z wrote
I really wish we would spend money in the US to help clean up this sort of stuff. I'm not sure the solution maybe moving this sort of plant to a more remote area or what. We can send 100+ billion to ukraine, but we can't help our own here, really seems off to me.
chuckie512 t1_ixff0cl wrote
Electric arc is the way of the future for steel. It's well understand and there's many designs already in use for it.
Except, the cost of conversion is less than the cost of just continuing to pollute, so US steel's board would literally be able to be held personally liable to the shareholders to change.
This is the current US system.
[deleted] t1_ixfw8mh wrote
I'm not really sure I understand the furnace type being a pollutant. US Steel uses natural gas furnaces. That isn't what is causing the pollution.
chuckie512 t1_ixfwo6c wrote
Electric arc furnaces at least can be fully turned off during idle periods, and during inversions. The current furnaces have to hot idle.
[deleted] t1_ixgf58n wrote
Still not really seeing your point of the pollution that is occurring.
chuckie512 t1_ixh9kk3 wrote
You don't see how being able to manufacture to meet demand would affect the pollution when compared to losing money anytime your plant isn't running full-steam? And how that would affect the whole supply chain?
[deleted] t1_ixhmyil wrote
I'm honestly not even sure what you are talking about at this moment, you went from pushing electric arc as some sort of reason there is polution to something else and I can't follow.
412gage t1_ixex4mf wrote
You're looking at this at an extremely surface-level POV. You just mentioned moving the plant somewhere else, not possible, let alone feasible.
Money is very much being spent on this but there's so many levels that you don't see immediate effects, especially at this level.
[deleted] t1_ixfw3tg wrote
Anything is feasible with enough money. 100 billion would go a long way in this country.
412gage t1_ixh45jb wrote
And that's why bills are being passed on a semi-frequent basis and include items pertaining to environmental efforts.
Willow-girl t1_ixh2gnv wrote
How much are you willing to chip in?
[deleted] t1_ixhor4w wrote
I mean I pay 60k a year in federal income taxes already, so maybe take a little of that. They were able to send 100 billion so far to ukraine, and I didn't agree to any of that.
Willow-girl t1_ixjon79 wrote
Good of you to be willing to put your money where your mouth is.
pittpanthers95 t1_ixfgpct wrote
I like how US Steel has been running tv commercials basically saying “we live here too, so we care about the environment here” but they don’t actually do shit