The Terminal sucks. It is our very own SoDoSoPa, bland boomer bait designed to lure pearl-clutching suburbanites into the city three times a year.

McCaffery lied about their plan and pulled the rug out from under from a purposefully ignorant Peduto administration and we ended up with a pair of big red lips outside of a Chipotle instead of a lively and sustainable community market.

But sure, Mayweather Wife Beater Boxing is a “local” business lmao whatever fuck them all

SoDoSoPa reference is killing me because this exactly what I said when construction began in the town home “community” located behind it. You are completely correct it is massively underwhelming.

Fuck the blocks.

The fact that they are opening chain businesses that are competition for locally owned stores in the strip is bullshit. Go to Peppis instead of primo hoagies and Edgar's instead of chipotle. Heard there's a chain coffee shop opening soon too.

It’s super disappointing, even the state store has a bland stock. I thought for sure they would have a better selection of wine since The Strip is a hip neighborhood, but nope. I wish the few local businesses there the best of luck, but I hope this project fails for the owners who lied about their true intentions.

There is a chain beer place coming soon. 😑

Oh let me guess - a Starbucks?! 🙄🙄🙄 Fits in perfectly with the Chipotle.

The Strip District has one of the faster growing residential communities in the city, and the Terminal is their version of Pittsburgh Mills. All the sizzle, none of the substance. This place will be empty storefronts within years. It’s as if no one learned anything from Allegheny Center Mall, and the irreversible damage it caused to the North Side.

The most insufferable part of the article was “The Parking Problem” write up. Quit catering to the suburban population (yes, I know I’m one) and tailor this to the people within walking distance. Any redevelopment plan for the Strip District that doesn’t include turning Penn Ave in to a pedestrian shopping district is a big fat L.

I like the plant store that's in there. Everything else seems mostly out of place. It doesn't make a lot of sense when compared to the neighborhood as a whole because the businesses there don't seem to be made for the residents.

The article makes comparisons to Ross and Robinson. I kinda agree. I also think both those suburbs have better businesses of those kinds. The city should be able to capitalize on its natural differences from the suburbs and build accordingly...not try and mimic them.

This is always a correct answer

“….We have 11 local businesses today”. Proceeds to name Floyd Mayweather boxing as a local business 😂😂

I could not have said it better myself. Hear hear!!

I would like to see more of a market and local flavor. But I'm glad it was not torn down or left to rot. Smaller local businesses I'm sure were more hesitant to expand during the pandemic.

I'm hoping time will lead to a better outcome but I'd bet we are going to see more of the same for a while.

More likely small businesses can’t afford the rent and that is why they have stayed away

I first saw the Chipotle just the other day and felt disappointed and perplexed as to why someone thought the Strip needed such a thing.

Hear hear. The half-assed attempt at making Smallman St really gets me--it added a bike lane that doesn't feel safe, it created angle parking that makes the street feel like a strip mall parking lot, and they painted bump outs for "traffic calming" that people just drive over or park in. They rebuilt the whole street from scratch and put in crappy temporary-feeling materials.

All that concrete and asphalt (with no Belgian block, brick, or stone) makes it feel so cheap and soulless. Combined with the focus on chain establishments, it's a real missed opportunity.

This project has been discussed since 2014 and has turned into a massive dissapointment. It could have been our Cleveland West side market. I just don’t know how any developer doesn’t see how well loved that is and conjure up this bs. Especially when it’s so comparable and close to our city. It should have been the first slide mentioned on the planning powerpoint presentation.

This is all well discussed in this sub and clearly is hated by the community.

HOWEVER, the next point is:

McAffrey has quietly apparently been shopping the project. He doesn’t want to give negative press any room to flourish because it will only ruin resale value for a potential flip.

Now he feels he has to double down by insulating this bs with more bs in the form of “luxury” condos that are sold for $900,000 starting price or apartments that start at $1,500 for a studio.

From there he’ll likely flip the entire block to a hedgefund and be long gone for a solid ROI on investment.

The wheel never is broken and will continue to spin.

The Terminal should be a case study in business class that not all development is good.

P.S- are we not going to also talk about the fact they permitted Cochran to build a whole ass AUDI DEALERSHIP in the Strip?

Nailed it.

Been to many cities with awesome meatpacking/warehouse/etc parts of town with great industrial vibes and cool shops.

Was REALLY hoping for that here as the housing density has grown by leaps and bounds.

I’ll be curious if the suburbanites keep it afloat, or if all these chains will sink. I’ll punt my optimism that maybe we can get more local and interesting shops/restaurants 5 years out.

It would have just been better to leave it as an abandoned shithole that let grifters illegally price gouge parking on public right of way. /s

r/fuckcars would applaud you for this comment

Chain stores and Suburbanites are= lame+Stinkie

Urban chads and local, soulful business= good+nice

I said my piece, Chrissy

I will not go to Post Gazzette page or pay for anything they do. What’s the article say? The terminal development has been one of my biggest let downs in Pittsburgh history.

Last year I was in that bike lane and some boomer in a convertebile drifted into it, spooking my SO who usually only rides on trails. I loudly said "mind the bike lane" and he lost his shit. He swerved over, slammed on his brakes, kept yelling at me, and eventually stopped to get out of his car and started coming at me.

They should have moved the parking closer to the road and protected the bike lane behind the parking. There's so much room for them to do that.

It’s easy to blame McCaffrey, the developer, but his interest is in getting the business space filled up and generating revenue. I expect nothing more from a real estate mogul. If the city wanted local businesses in there then they should’ve included specific provisions for the types of businesses that they want. The URA failed us on this one.

This was likely the most profitable move for mcafree . A community market doesn’t make money.

What was crappy was the city let them do it

> They should have moved the parking closer to the road and protected the bike lane behind the parking. There’s so much room for them to do that.

It is not legal to build parking protected bike lanes in Pennsylvania, unfortunately.

Aslin? Wouldn't really call them a chain. Also, they make some of the best beers I've had

Yep, crossing the picket line is not cool.

Unfortunately the city's plan for Penn ave in the strip is "more cars more parking"

I did not know that. Is there a reason for this? Sounds like something that should be changed.

The law says something like cars must park within 12 inches of the curb. The legislature actually recently tried to change the law to allow for the creation of parking protected lanes, but republican senators sabotaged the bill. https://triblive.com/news/pennsylvania/protected-bike-lane-bill-named-for-a-pittsburgher-vetoed-over-late-gop-amendments/

This is their first location outside of the DMV. Voodoo is more of a chain than them IMO.

It’s so interesting to read people’s thoughts on what “should” be in the Terminal. One poster said it should have speciality shops and eateries, while dismissing the shops & eateries that are there. Another said it should be Chanel, Prada, or Burberry; trust me folks, those brands pick where THEY want to go, the Strip is a LONG way from being a destination for them.

My favorite, though, is decrying the lack of local businesses without knowing which businesses, if any, have inquired about space there. What would you all like, a Brighton Hot Dogs shop? A local tanning shop? A locally owned Supercuts?

Premium retail space in malls all over the US is vacant, of course this is going to fill up slowly. And bad news, long time Strip residents — you’re not the target demographic. It’s the 25-38 childless residents who moved from the West Coast, NY, and Chicago into all those new buildings you hate.

I'm glad that there will finally be something worthwhile in the Strip District. I'll probably make a trek, or two into town to patronize these establishments. That is, if the gun violence calms down a bit, and if the parking situation gets better.

Such a bummer to see a great idea go so poorly. I live in Denver now (thankfully moving back in less than 2 weeks) and there’s a few places like this out here, and they’re great, but Denver also loves local business and that’s why they work so well. You only see local restaurants and breweries open up, and the bars that serve the main population of patrons serve only local beers. I can also see how people don’t like the aesthetic of this kind of place in Pittsburgh or the strip specifically.

These are right in line with the interests of the folks living in the bland apartments down there.

Lmoa suburban roaches mad

I’m in for more of the open air, local culture, yinzer thing. You can go to 50 other strip malls to get that other crap. But unfortunately cash rules everything around us. Brace for the worst.

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Most of them are available anywhere

He should be blamed. Tax incentives and partnerships with ura are on the back of this project. A core reason for community support was that it was to be local business friendly.

If we put in a bunch of places available in a strip mall, it will just be another SoDo basic garbage place

Then enforce it. He dgaf so you have to make him.

Chain stores, tons of parking, shitty bike infrastructure. Yep, it sucks.

I think a mix of local shops and eateries would be nice. Citygrows, Pip & Lola and Herbert’s Pharmacy are a great start, but let’s keep adding actual local places not locally own franchises.

Pittsburgh has a great beer scene. I’d rather a local place be able to open a second location then a DC beer company come in.

Voodoo isn’t moving to the terminal.

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I’m fine with that, but it takes two to tango. Let’s see what local businesses step up, too.

As I said in another comment, the rent is probably astronomical for a small local businesses or startup. I don’t think it is a matter of small businesses stepping up so much as the landlord has made it impossible.

Just had aslin yesterday in dc not to impressive .

I know, but it's just cool to go into the city sometimes. It's a whole other vibe. I'd definitely rather live in like a Cranberry, or a Wexford. Places like that are way safer, and cleaner. However, the occasional trip into the city is cool for a grittier vibe.

That’s why some of us live in Carrick, and some of us live in Fox Chapel. The landlord is trying to get tenants that suit their new space and their emerging demographic. If they charge cheap rent they get airbrush T-shirt shops like Pittsburgh Mills or Century III. Plus, they get to make money too.

It’s a calculated risk, because my gut tells me they’ve overpriced themselves during this real estate price explosion. But it’s a business.

Still, compared to Chipotle and other actual chains, this is probably the best place they're adding.

You’re acting like the landlord doesn’t have a say over applicants. “This airbrush t- shirt shop applied, have to let them in!” 😂

Ok well, what did you get? Their overall ratings would disagree with you because they are, in fact, impressive..

Of course they do, but so did C3 & the Mills. Setting the rent high is a business calculation. We’ll see how far their standards fall if they can’t fill those spaces. Could become Penn Ave.

3 different ipas single /double and triple and a run of the mill hefe .

I dunno then, guess they just weren't hitting right for you at that time then.

That and I don’t support spoiled shitty boomer trumptards. Someone flies that flag, I’ll never support anything they do.

Sounds like Station Square…

praise the lord more parking, sometimes i have to do the loop TWICE to find a spot!

/s

Edit: no to mention have to walk a block or more to the first store i need

It's a missed opportunity, but from decades ago. It could have been converted into a public market the way Seattle, Toronto, Vancouver, Milwaukee, etc etc have. I'm happy the building isn't sitting empty any longer, but it's essentially been turned into a mall.

They should write a second version of this article using real Pittsburgher quotes from this thread. If you want everyone to know how the local public feels about this atrocity, look no further than this comment thread.

The Strip District is a regional tourist destination. I live out in Westmoreland County, so I don't go into the Strip often, but when I do, it seems like at least half the time I am going with friends or relatives, many of whom used to be from the Pittsburgh region. As a tourist draw, I could see a case for chain restaurants. They came for the shopping but want cheap and/or predicable food.

Sucks to be the people eating at chipotle when they could be eating at Salem, Lucy’s or anywhere else.

Those are malls in random suburbs. The Strip has been a destination for how long? They have built countless luxury apartments in the neighborhood over the last decade. I highly doubt this is going to turn into the Pittsburgh Mills anytime soon.

Stay there please and keep the fuck out of the city

Is the local food not part of the tourist attraction? You can get Chipotle anywhere.

How's come?

I didn’t say it was going to, I said there’s a reason rents are high and showed an example of what happens when landlords get desperate for tenants and lower both rent & standards. And I commented further up in the thread about the new housing and demographic, and how that’s the reason for the high rent.

And while the Strip is a destination, there’s really only one street that’s even close to a retail destination. Two different things.

There was an article about how they baited White Whale and gave the space to a chain.

I don’t think anyone would think twice about this space if the developers didn’t fuck with local businesses in addition to not renting to them.

https://www.pghcitypaper.com/pittsburgh/white-whale-allegations-only-part-of-ongoing-issues-with-the-terminal-development-project/Content?oid=19420979

Hadn’t seen that, definitely playing winner take all real estate there. I’m not familiar with White Whale, but I’m sure Posman’s has deeper pockets… which certainly goes against the narrative the landlord is pushing. Either way, a bookstore will be gone in <3 years anyway because people (especially that demographic) download books instead of buying actual paper.

At least the Asian food hall is in the works, definitely looking forward to that

White Whale is expanding and hosting readings and a coffee bar. I don’t think you know what you’re talking about.

Yeah. The article says many Strip District residents are disappointed. Interviews different people. Some want it to be more like the Reading Market in Philly. Some want high end stores like Gucci and Chanel. None want it to be Wine & Spirits, Virtual Golf and Chipotle.

The hollowing out of Pgh, as covered by those contributing to it. cool.

Nothing like a chipotle to lure the suburbanites from their local…. Chipotles. Developers are scum.

It was a public market a decade ago

Been out of the burgh for a bit now... is Pennsylvania Libations still down there? And if so, between that, breweries, wineries... why evened need a state store?

Maybe I don’t, I mean, I did say I wasn’t familiar with them.

But having been in the book business for over 15 years, maybe I do. It’s been a few years, but things haven’t changed that much. With a low ticket product like that, especially when going against online sales and an industry leader that discounts bestsellers heavily, you need foot traffic & lots of it. We’ll see.

Thank you. Shame on the blocks.

I think that this is only the case for parallel parking. afaik, there is no 12-inch-from-curb requirement for other parking styles.

Ah yes, my favorite Local Owned business: Fine Wine and Good Spirits Premium Collection

I thought Reading Street Terminal in Philly or Faneuil Hall in Boston would be great!!

Yeah this is a bad take that ignores how urban areas function. The strip is not Pittsburgh’s fasting growing neighborhood because of out of townies visiting on the weekend. Like all parts of any urban area, the city of Pittsburgh and strip district included, most of the economic activity is done by locals.

Not all development is good this is true. This particular development is truly abhorrent. It's exacerbated by the fact that half the population in this region is already mad they're making changes to the strip to begin with. A lot of the people I hear complain about it are people who haven't gone to the strip in 20-plus years like my mother-in-law but they just know change is bad.

As someone who lived in 15222 for a long time, it is crazy to me that it is better to leave all those buildings unused and vacant vs. putting something in there.

Oh yes, Reddit is a completely unbiased sample of the general population for pretty much any topic.

That only applies to state owned roads like Forbes. Smallman is probably city or county, I highly doubt it’s a state road.

Buddy most people on here live in the city. Everyday I wake up, hop on the T and then come in to the city. It’s not gritty it’s neighborly and vibrant. This is home for a lot of people not just the place for your gritty play dates. It’s always disappointing to see historic neighborhoods turned into play places for suburbanites who whine about parking.

Came here to ask this question. As an outsider, just looks like a bungled real estate deal by the URA. Probably would have been better to spin off a non profit cooperation for long term management. That’s how they run Eastern Market here in Detroit.

Poor cities needing to appropriate suburban culture to survive.

If you have an iPhone you can turn on reader view and get past the paywall of their articles

The URA’s entire mission seems to be to fail at everything

Reddit is not representative of Pittsburgh by a long shot.

So over the years as I have watched the Terminal develop I really had hoped it was going the direction of a very similar development in DC called Union Market. Union Market is really popular, all local shops, packed during the week and on weekends, it is in an industrial district and the building itself is much like the Terminal. I’m not sure why the Pittsburgh development wasn’t able to go in this direction Union Market

The closest state store to the strip is either downtown or lawernceville. It’s actually convenient for people who live/work in the strip to shop at.

The deal was that the Penn Avenue merchants/grocers/bakers/ fish markets/cheese shops did not want the terminal to be filled with shops in direct competition. That's why it's not like Union Market or Reading Terminal. Stores that would be in those markets already line Penn Avenue.

So judging from this thread yinz would be against a Dave n Busters moving in?

Was really hoping for something like Reading Terminal Market in Philadelphia or North Market in Columbus OH. Those places are filled with local shopping, eating and drinking. I’m hopeful it will get better with time!

Ok…we’ll then I’m at a loss as to why everyone is complaining that chain stores are coming in? If the local businesses didn’t want any more local competition there…then what were they supposed to put in there…?

That... doesn't answer my question.

There are breweries, for beer. Wineries, for wine. And Pennsylvania Libations specializes in Pennsylvania craft liquors. Everything a state store offers is available through other merchants (yes, I know state stores don't sell beer).

The Strip has always been "the place" to go when you want local/specialty/ethnic items. You've got local butchers and groceries, specialty coffee, cigars, and spices, Asian, Italian, and Greek markets. How does a Wine and Spirits shop fit into that, when that niche is already filled, and filled better? If you really badly want big name liquor or wine, the bus to East Liberty picks up at Penn Station and gets you to a Fine Wine and Good Spirits in like 5-10 minutes. The shops you mentioned in L-ville and Downtown are a short bus/bike ride away. Your answer is one of laziness.

Edit: add to my comment that the top comment I replied to notes the stock at this new location is lacking, so what's the point anyway.

I'm sure that the owners, and franchisees of these businesses don't mind me, and my boys bringing our fat stacks into the city limits to spread around.

I have had people from out of town want to go to Primanti's, Pamela's, and Deluca's because of seeing them on TV. Those seem to be the tourist attraction. The other restaurants are attractions for locals. I am sick of Primanti's personally.

Probably true. I work in the city out in the Bakery Square area, I don't live in the city. Oakland is the farthest west in Pittsburgh I like to get without a specific event, like a baseball game or show downtown. As someone that comes from out of town, I might over estimate the number of people who visit the Strip rather than are locals.

Truthfully it’s the strip. It hasn’t been real local business for decades. Go to Millvale, Bloomfield, Lawrenceville for some real homegrown talented retail and cooking. I have never fucked with the strip when Ross Park Mall is always less busy

Keep in mind that development in this case comes from Chicago or Columbus and that's pretty much all you need to know

People are lazy

It was a market and failed

It was a market years ago and failed.

While I agree that we should support local businesses I have to confess that I've tried Peppis a few times now and have never enjoyed it, but I thought Primo was okay for the price.

Yep, and it's still awesome.

I used to work security for that building I get her point but she needs to remember where she’s at…primantis is literally across the street, there’s 4 resturants also across the street plus the STRIP DISTRICT not even a block away

Primo hoagies is absolutely ass

And which local business is able to pay for the astronomical rent?

The strip has been getting worse and worse over the past 5 years or so. It used to be a good spot for night life on top of all the businesses along the strip. Now they bring all these big chains in and ruin the only thing that makes the strip fun by detracting from the local businesses and put a bow on it with art statues and stuff. What a disappointment.

>This place will be empty storefronts within years.

This is a wildly off-base take of what you want to happen, not what will actually happen.

If the Strip can support half a dozen knock-off Steelers t-shirt shops, it can support a Chipotle.

I think that’s fair. You’re not a bad guy by any means, we’re all biased in such a way. I live about a two minute walk from market district in Shadyside and probably do 1/2 of my groceries in the strip and visit weekly or biweekly. Definitely glad to see people spending their money here no matter if they are from down the street or out of town though.

I would like a Brighton Hot Dog shop there.

People complaining about being able to buy burrito bowls in the strip district need to absolutely get a life. It’s the most trivial thing. And besides, for people who live or work in the strip district it’s an ok option for relatively cheap food if you’re in a hurry for like lunch

Ever since the public market left the terminal has been an empty turd. I don’t know what’s going to happen but I’d guess people making a trip to the strip aren’t going for chipotle, so if chipotle survives it’s down to the people who moved close the there anyway. I guess what I’m trying to say is that I don’t think one has anything to do with the other and maybe they both do fine or maybe the new stuff dies but I don’t think the old strip is going to be hurt by this.

Have to shout out Hungry Cowgirl that opened there as well and it’s 2x the portions and flavor for 1/2 the price

Again, you can lease a store space in Ross Park Mall for the same price or cheaper than a terminal space. There are zero local small businesses that are cool that can afford 10k/mo rent. Literally, I can go to Williamsburg and find a similar retail space for the same price - and that's Brooklyn. Either make the rent cheaper or embrace the Chipotle.

That's what happens when you let a dude from Chicago in to "revitalize Pittsburgh" 🙄

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Went there once in August. Worst hoagie I ever had.

Does no one remember the actual open air market that was there and didn’t do well obviously? I’m so sick of people bitching. If you don’t like what’s being developed, go develop something yourself! No one is stopping you. Cue the downvotes…

Thank you!!! Came here to say the same thing.

• Mayweather Boxing + Fitness

Hurray, let's bring a women beater's business to Pittsburgh!

• Posman books

Oh, yeah, they had ice cream so an outside retailer won out over local retailers for that space. I remember that news article from a couple years ago.

Reminds of me of the South Side Works.

There is one in Homestead. Why would Pittsburgh need another D&B's?

Chain stores are there because McCaffrey flat out lied to the URA and toyed with local businesses like White Whale while attracting chain stores

https://www.pghcitypaper.com/pittsburgh/white-whale-allegations-only-part-of-ongoing-issues-with-the-terminal-development-project/Content?oid=19420979

What you're failing to tell people is how neglected The Produce Terminal was by the URA before McCaffrey came in with all his promises. I doubt you actually stepped foot in there when it was a market. (Hint: it was a shithole)

So stop saying that it just failed. It couldn't attract businesses then because it was a bad investment for those businesses. It's a bad investment now because it's hilariously overpriced because the URA has a shitty history of going with developers who just want to gouge or take advantage of the older low costs to flip and sell.

Pre-redevelopment, the whole thing was setup to fail and be easy to shutter once a developer signed on to the project.

The building was falling into disrepair, the URA only offered month-to-month leases (not sure for how long it was, but the URA ran the building since the 1980s). So really, how does any business make at least a yearly plan or multi-year plan if the URA is going to suddenly not allow a lease renewal and you have to move your business?

Only parts of the building were open, probably only the parts that were structurally sound, so that if part of the building did collapse, nobody would be killed.

The whole thing was a joke 10+ years ago. That's why it failed.

u/PGHENGR

This is one of your biggest let downs? You’ve had an all around great Pittsburgh experience then lol

One thing is that, like the South Side Works area on East Carson, the new developments tend to have a problem with store fronts, IMO. Store fronts that grow naturally are just riddled with specificity, a unique look, due to vastly different conditions of building, signage, etc. If you look at the signage in the Terminal development, it looks like they adhere to some restrictions on size of sign, sign font, etc., for example. It creates a kind of monotone, and it can even obscure businesses that are there. E.g., in the South Side, the waffle place, or Paint with a Twist (or whatever it's called). These signs/storefronts just don't stand out enough.

I don't know how they could do it otherwise but I bet they could. Have it less finished, and require the businesses to finish the storefront more themselves. Even if it's shoddy, it would look more natural and unique.

It's sad how it goes. Quirky, awesome businesses thrive, neighborhood becomes popular, landlords get greedy, out goes the coolness because the only businesses that can afford to pay the rent are chains. Oakland is a good example.

It’s there, from Chipotle’s perspective, to serve the large and growing residential market in the Strip, currently around ~8,000 residents. I don’t think it was ever intended to be a draw for people, rather just there to serve the people that live there. That being said, it is still an uninspiring use of the space.

I don’t think it is going to do damage to the Strip like Allegheny Center, Allegheny Center was way more destructive to the surrounding neighborhood, eliminating significant buildings and creating a very weird neighborhood structure that was (and remains) confusing to navigate. The Terminal is just impacting one building that was already in disrepair. The businesses there don’t seem to have any appreciable impact on the Strip staples, and are completely different businesses in most cases.

As for its future, I agree that many of these businesses will fail in the long run, and that it will be an unsuccessful development. That being said, I don’t think the space will go to waste, and I think it is likely that it might be used in 5-10 years for the public market we all want. I view this development as just priming the pump for that, renovating the building and getting things ready for a better use once this development scheme fails.

Thank you for saving me from my own curiosity. Looked like a decent setup walking past but hadn’t tried yet.

You ever been to the east side market in Cleveland?

That was my thought, too. It's been well documented over the years that any plan to make the Terminal a public market was a nonstarter and the Penn Avenue merchants would have fought it. So the developer looked for other businesses that would add to the variety without taking business away from Penn Avenue.

CREAM

It wasn’t a shithole lol. The main problem was lack of infrastructure

. It wasn’t financially viable because of incompetence and/or didn’t make business sense.

NM, I'm thinking that the old Whole Foods location is better suited anyway.

The state store is the only place to get alcohol from other places.

FWIW, parking is still relevant for those in walking distance. Living in a neighborhood where too many people are fighting for too little parking is a nightmare. It impacts you any time you need to leave your neighborhoods and come back, and it impacts the general safety and peace of trying to go about your day when the streets are overrun with angry drivers, increased accidents, etc.

That logic doesn't follow with me. It's like saying that because Penn Mac doesn't sell Great Value pasta, there should be a Walmart in the Strip.

I disagree. I like their diablos. Little too much bread, but otherwise delicious.

I didn't say "there should be a FWGS in the Strip."

You said more than once that you can get everything you would get at the state store at PA Libations, and I pointed out the large category of things that make that untrue.

This jabroni from Chicago got his 99 year lease all he has to do is purposely tank it for a few years claim the write off then say he can't fulfill the promises and he has to rent it to target.

Yeah, agreed that the revamped terminal is a strip mall. I had expectations that it would be closer to Phillys Reading Terminal but alas corporate greed always wins.

The state store sells wine and liquor. PA Libations sells wine and liquor. Sure, that's somewhat reductionist, but its the truth. Complaining that a store doesn't carry everything that another store carries is a dead horse you'll never beat anything out of. If you want something from FWGS, there's four or five stores within a 5-15 minute commute of the strip by various transportation methods. If what you want is wine, there's even more options through grocery stores.

The FWGS is just an example of the bigger problem though. Specialty shops are the reason people shop at the strip. They don't go there to buy bottles of big name wine and a Chipotle burrito bowl. Suburban shopping malls have that. We've seen this sort of thing done before at Allegheny Center Mall, Southside Works, at Station Square, at The Waterfront. We need to stop making urban centers designed for suburban people.

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Can’t say that I have. Is it worth it?

Edit: imagine downvoting this comment. Truly bizarre.

Yeah. And it will make you sad when you’re back in the strip looking at Chipotle.

Lol there’s no disputing that. Chipotle is fun if you are a freshman in college because it’s like the cool thing to eat. And then you wake up and realize it’s blander than Eat n Park sober.

They should’ve converted it into a Time Out market hall. Been to a few worldwide and they are spot on. Rotating vendors make it a different experience each time. Look at what Baltimore did with their food halls - one is even in a converted repair shop/garage. Missed opportunity, no wonder they call it flyover country.

The terminal sucks, but I can’t get upset about it. It’s better than the crumbling warehouses that were there before, and the developers can only fill it with the tenants who are willing to pay the rent.

None of those places could get built today

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Except that Chipotle will be open when Salem's, Lucy's, most other places are closed.

You said you’ve been out of the Burgh for a few years. There has been an explosion of offices and apartments in the strip. People who work/live in the strip can walk to the liquor store at lunch/after work to pick up something not available at PA Libations.

Salem's has pretty extensive hours, among other restaurants.

When I left (mid-covid), several were already built, but it looks like the wasteland between One Waterfront Place and Cork Factory has partially filled in. Is Railroad street useful yet? Does the trail go past 15th street now?

I can understand the need for a liquor store if the demographic has changed that much and the demand is there. What I don't understand are rhe other "suburban walkable mall" choices.

You know it…Yinzers ain’t nothing to mess with.

Dollar Dollar Bills.

They should have opened the buildings up, made them safe to walk around in for kids disabled etc. and then done something like turn it into a space with benches something like the NY Highline where they converted old train tracks into a park and you don't have to buy anything to just be there. The retail could have just been market style stands. Its overdone and unfortunately doomed to failure. Does anyone even go to the backside of it facing the condo monotony?

Anything that prevents a permanent vinyl sign hanging from some nails is good, IMO.

Excuse me, this is supposed to be a negative comments only thread.