Going against slumlords

Submitted by MrArkAngel11 t3_11bmk6a in providence

Hello everyone! I am part of a group called Reclaim Rhode Island. We are working on helping people who are taken advantage of by bad landlords. We have recently brought to light the awful stuff Pioneer Investments has been doing(lead poisoning children, rats in walls, sewage leaking in kitchens) and we are taking it this Tuesday to the statehouse in providence! If you or anyone you know has ever been hurt by a slumlord we would really appreciate the support. So come join us Tuesday to fight for better living conditions!

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ghogan1010 t1_j9yx79q wrote

Good for you guys. As a landlord who tries to treat his tenants with respect with updated buildings, reasonable rents, etc it’s good to see you taking a stand against those who don’t.

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airforcereserve t1_j9zd7o0 wrote

Unless you rent for half the market rate you're not one of the good guys. We're coming for you next.

−55

Heysoos_Christo t1_j9zetk1 wrote

I'm upset about the increased rent costs as much as the next renter, but this is an extremely shortsighted, asinine comment.

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ghogan1010 t1_j9zg5cv wrote

This is someone who will never find the capability or intellect to own a home. If “market” rent is upwards of $1700-$2000 and my units are renting for $1200 - $1500 without an increase this past year and no projected for this year, I’d say I’m being pretty fair.

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MrArkAngel11 OP t1_j9zv5y0 wrote

I think thats pretty reasonable especially since that sounds like youll make a little above the mortgage but nothing insanely high. Thats what my family does with their rentals.

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ghogan1010 t1_j9zx5uw wrote

There’s a lot that goes into owning rental properties that people don’t take into account. My 4 unit property last year brought in for revenue $60,000 in revenue. Market rates that number could be $85,000. Now expenses. 36,000 for mortgage, taxes, insurance. I own an additional $5,000,000 umbrella liability policy that costs around $500 per year

I had 2 hot water tanks go last year. $3,000 total in expenses. Dishwasher went in 1 unit. $785 Pest control issue as it’s close to the water and surrounding area has an issue. $1500. That’s up front charge and monthly maintenance plan because I’d rather prevent a problem than not.

I installed 2 outdoor plugs for 2 units because they own electric cars and were running extension cords through a window. Rather not have them endanger themselves doing that. $500 each per plug.

We painted and replaced flooring in common area for $2500. Common area electrical, sewer, water, landscaping, property management, accountant for the year total just under $4500

This brings total profit on the unit to $10,000 per year. We had virtually zero snow removal and thankfully it was a low year in terms of maintenance. But what happens next year if the other 2 water tanks go, or in 5 years when the roof needs replacing, or someone moves out and I miss a month’s rent from the unit? There’s most definitely multiple components to owning and a lot of people are jerks. But we aren’t all jerks. Some of us are trying to build an asset, be fair to people, and benefit in the long term. For as many bad landlords there are, there are scuzzy tenants. It needs to be a partnership.

Yes some people are cut throat businessmen and there’s ways to squeeze a hell of a lot more out of it. But many tenants don’t treat properties with any kind of respect either. Thankfully mine do and I am fair to them in return.

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SwampYankeeMatriarch t1_ja09i2z wrote

Heads up, this user is shitposting extremist arguments on both sides of the issue. OP, feel free to correct me, but it looks like they're pretending to represent your movement when they're really just trying to polarize and undermine productive conversation.

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canibringmydog t1_j9ylhgk wrote

This is incredible and I have been searching for this movement in Rhode Island. Thank you for sharing.

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MrArkAngel11 OP t1_j9zvag7 wrote

Try to come visit this Tuesday a bunch of us will be there!

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meatsweats77 t1_j9ymwto wrote

This is so cool! Does your group have social media to follow?

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klasbatalo t1_jad54dq wrote

You can follow @reclaimri also if you are in providence @workersandrenters on ig and fb, @workersrenters on Twitter

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Locksmith-Pitiful t1_j9yofe6 wrote

Curious, is lead poisoning a result of water specifically? If so, how prevalent is it in RI and Providence?

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Good-Expression-4433 t1_j9yqdyr wrote

RI buildings are old as fuck which means many still contain(ed) lead paint. Some landlords addressed this but many landlords, especially slumlords, ignored it.

https://health.ri.gov/healthrisks/poisoning/lead/ https://health.ri.gov/data/childhoodleadpoisoning/

They mention here that 80% of homes in the state were built before 1978 and likely contain lead paint (if not addressed by the property owner.)

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MarlKarx-1818 t1_j9z9rvj wrote

In Elmhurst, where we live, it's common because the houses are mad old. We got a no-interest loan to change our pipes inside the house and Providence water covered the ones on the street side. Of course, that'a only possible because we own, and that we can afford to pay back the loan. It's a very inequitable solution for something so widespread.

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darekta t1_ja0d4aw wrote

Paint. Most of the window sashes in these old houses were not repainted or sealed properly and the lead based paint chips and lands in the sill where kids like to play. Old wooded windows also rub against the sash which creates lead dust.

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First_Place_Finish t1_ja0rsu9 wrote

Less poisoning is not caused by water. You have city water. It is only caused by kids eating paint

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Locksmith-Pitiful t1_ja0tgyj wrote

Lead poisoning can absolutely come from water.

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First_Place_Finish t1_ja0tqwo wrote

City water is tested often. It is very unusual to have lead in pipes coming into the house. Pipes leaving the house don’t matter. You can easily have your house water tested. I would be very skeptical

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cowperthwaite t1_ja0braz wrote

Links to Providence Journal stories about Pioneer Investments.

Pioneer tenants organized against their landlord. Now they say they're being pushed out: Renters have faced sewage stench, leaks and structural issues. Now they say they may lose their homes.

https://www.providencejournal.com/story/news/local/2023/02/06/pioneer-tenants-say-they-are-being-forced-out-after-organizing-against-landlord/69871075007/

Tenants band together against RI landlord as they face deplorable conditions

https://www.providencejournal.com/story/news/local/2022/09/30/pioneer-investments-anurag-sureka-tenants-say-apartments-deplorable-condition/8081442001/

A Central Falls couple's twins were struggling. Then a blood test showed high lead levels: Pioneer Investments left two young children at risk in a Central Falls property. Now, the parents may take action.

https://www.providencejournal.com/story/news/local/2022/12/15/childhood-lead-poisoning-central-falls-rhode-island-pioneer-properties/69683975007/

Edit: Two of the three stories require a subscription. We're still running a sale for President's Day, one of the best of the year. Please consider subscribing. And consider reading these important stories.

https://subscribe.providencejournal.com/offers?gps-source=CPDIGARTICLE&utm_medium=onsite&utm_source=article&utm_campaign=DIGITALARTICLE&utm_content=CPDIGARTICLE

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BoujiCorgi t1_ja0jxiy wrote

I live in public housing and have all 3 of those problems, I’ll be there !

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PeachesFromTulsa t1_j9zixnb wrote

Posted this in the r/rhodeisland thread, copied here too.

I own a 2-family home in PVD. I live in one unit and my tenants help me cover the cost of the mortgage. I keep my rent below market value and address any repairs or issues ASAP. It’s a good situation for everyone involved. I know this movement is meant to fight back against “slumlords” but some of these things will negatively affect those of us who are not part of the larger problem. I charge an application fee because it’s costs money to run a background check. It’s not a ton of money (I believe around $35 last time), but someone has to pay it. If I am reviewing multiple applications, it adds up. It makes the most sense for each applicant to cover their own background check. My biggest concern is sealing eviction histories. I try to be sympathetic to everyone’s unique situation in life but paying my mortgage each month requires my tenants to contribute. If someone has an eviction on their record, I believe that’s my right to know as a property owner. Housing in RI should be more affordable and safe, but these initiatives are not the way to do it.

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SluggDaddy t1_ja0oxg9 wrote

There are a lot of landlords like you - I am fortunate to have one, and I know it and I want to be a good tenant in part for that reason. Their retirement is this house I live in. A big problem is absentee landlords and the extraction of increasing rents from unmaintained properties. It’s the assholes being slumlords at scale who are the problem, and it’s difficult to come up with a way to regulate housing without putting such a burden on small landlords that doesn’t ultimately benefit the better capitalized, better lawyered-up corporate types.

I sympathize in part because this was an idea my mom and I had shared for her own retirement, in a three family with a tenant occupying one unit. But the market over the last few years has made that look less feasible in part because of big corporate firms buying up three family and other small rental properties and driving up the prices of what’s left. The same actors who are profiting from substandard housing are profiting from jacked up rents.

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Alternative-Bat-8453 t1_ja2xhj1 wrote

Yeah but you shouldn’t own a house you can’t afford yourself. You want to run a background check you should pay for it, you’re choosing to do it. Why does the responsibility of your decisions fall so heavily on tenants?

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klasbatalo t1_ja2x6zw wrote

Maybe don't become a landlord if you dont have a plan to pay all your mortgages you took out. If they are an investment then they are a risk, but surely if you really wanted to be in the "housing business" without any risk you'd make sure you could pay your bills often without customers. You don't see other small businesses forcing their clients, and customer base to have no where else to shop do you, even making them contractually obligated to shop at their business.

Housing is unique in that it involves peoples health and lives, so it should be highly regulated.

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PeachesFromTulsa t1_ja44h2y wrote

Got it! I’ll sell my home and my dream of homeownership to someone who can 100% afford it without the rental income from the first floor. I’m sure there are lots of Boston investors who fit that bill, who will gladly jack the rent up and probably further the issues you are fighting against here.

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klasbatalo t1_ja4neno wrote

No one including corporations should own a second house until everyone has a home. We need public housing for everyone managed by the residents themselves.

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PeachesFromTulsa t1_ja4vjne wrote

My 2-family home is my one and only home. If you are making me the enemy, you have a losing cause.

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klasbatalo t1_ja4vsov wrote

We aren’t making you an enemy, in fact we know you are likely way different than a medium or larger landlord. But you should still have to abide by landlord and tenancy laws. And we believe these should be updated for the 21st century.

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Ok-Mess-2729 t1_ja43v1b wrote

That’s a great premise but in that case a lot of smaller owners just won’t rent out available units (or rent only to friends or family). They will lead to more supply than demand and drive up rent. If you over regulate, people won’t bother putting units out to market.

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klasbatalo t1_ja4n6rx wrote

Every other business needs a professional license or to register, be overseen by OSHA, etc should be no different for housing if they want to be treated like a business. We need consumer protections.

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Ok-Mess-2729 t1_ja4v0nz wrote

What I am saying is that requiring those things will drive out smaller landlords (example, owner occupied two family), renting units will be less attractive to those small investors and will lead way to more corporate landlords with money and attorneys at their disposal.

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klasbatalo t1_ja4vd9g wrote

This is like saying that a local mom and pop pizza joint shouldn’t have to abide by the same rules as a Pizza Hut or Dominos in paying their workers a minimum wage, or they should be immune from safety regulations, etc

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Ok-Mess-2729 t1_ja4vrbj wrote

You are right, but you don’t have to abide by the rules if you just don’t rent the unit. I have one sitting, thinking about just making it a one family to avoid the hassle. Or putting family in it with an informal agreement. I think you will see a lot of that especially from people who don’t need the money to pay the mortgage.

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klasbatalo t1_ja4w5aw wrote

Honestly we are fine with people just putting family in there, that’s often what already happens, landlords like you provide naturally existing affordable housing. Overall we are calling for expansion of public housing and sensible protections for all tenants, including your niece or nephew or grandparents.

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klasbatalo t1_ja4wi4b wrote

I would say we also believe there should be massive investment in renovation / redevelopment for all housing providers, RI has the 3rd oldest housing stock in the country and a crack down on slumlords. Landlords who follow the laws and regulations shouldn’t have an issue.

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Ok-Mess-2729 t1_ja4xq59 wrote

I just don’t have the faith in this state to manage it correctly, we didn’t get this way because we are well managed.

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klasbatalo t1_ja4zosm wrote

Well that’s why we think it should be managed by residents themselves not the state.

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Ok-Mess-2729 t1_ja5lafu wrote

I hope it works out. It’s tough out there right now.

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airforcereserve t1_j9zn0j1 wrote

We're not going to be happy until every house is owned and managed by the Providence Housing Authority. Universal Section 8 Housing!

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kayakhomeless t1_j9zaaj3 wrote

I’d support all of this with the caveat that rent stabilization will do nothing to fix the housing shortage, and it will only help the (mostly white, wealthier) people who already have access to housing. It’s a good short term policy, but long run only makes things worse and more inequitable.

“all of these policies share a problem if enacted as the exclusive solution to rising rents. As economists often stress, rent control fails to address the core issue of why housing is so expensive to begin with: lack of supply.” From vox

Rent stabilization will only help if it’s coupled with increased supply via zoning reform and legalization of greater supply, especially where it’s needed close to every walkable downtown. Rhode Island is last in the country for housing growth, is it any wonder why housing costs are skyrocketing?

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SaltyNewEnglandCop t1_j9yromy wrote

There’s nothing preventing anyone from having an attorney in an eviction process and why would sealing eviction records serve anyone?

That would force landlords to be even pickier when determining who to rent to and could have a lot of unintended consequences.

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NYCNark t1_ja1ab7r wrote

What is preventing ppl from having an attorney in eviction proceedings is the cost. PVD has just trialed a program for assigned counsel in these cases and it makes a big difference. Also, ppl get evicted for many reasons, some of which will be outside their control (e.g. lost a job). Should that impact their ability to find housing in perpetuity?

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SaltyNewEnglandCop t1_ja1atz1 wrote

Someone who has one eviction in their record isn’t finding difficulty finding housing, as there are thousands of people on court connect with several evictions… who are presently renting.

But a landlord should have the night to see that the person they’re thinking of allowing to live in their property for a fee has a history of being an issue.

I would never rent to someone who’s had numerous evictions, because they’re obviously a problem. If someone wants to take that liability on, power to them but it certainly wouldn’t be me.

Sometimes those having difficulty finding housing is because of their own doing.

Make it the states problem, not someone looking to rent out their first floor to cover their mortgage.

−3

Alternative-Bat-8453 t1_ja2x9mu wrote

Landlords shouldn’t rely on rent to cover their mortgage.

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SaltyNewEnglandCop t1_ja3rkb8 wrote

That’s not how it works.

Unless you want corporations owning three families these days with these prices, the rent will support the mortgage.

Get out of here with your ideology, getting very close to some Atlas Shrugged shit.

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Alternative-Bat-8453 t1_ja5r4p8 wrote

What are you talking about? That’s how it should work, mortgages should be based on what you can afford without rental income. Tenants have had enough. Families used to own these homes and live together. Now it’s all landlords and rental companies. I’m born and raised in Rhode Island and I’ve been a witness to the change and greed. So please spare me whatever story you’re trying to tell.

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SaltyNewEnglandCop t1_ja6aq13 wrote

So this is how I know you’re short some change here.

It just so happens that landlords have more expenses than just the mortgage. There’s taxes, sewer fees, water fee’s, maintenance costs, repair costs, and all other costs.

If a landlord has a $3,000 mortgage and rents all three floors of their three family and only charges $1,000 per floor each month, they’ll be in the red. They won’t make enough on top to pay for everything else associated for the property.

Who pays for the all the repairs that will happen? The landlord. Who pays for replacing equipment as it ages out? The landlord. Who pays for the damages because of a shit tenant? The landlord.

If you think it’s wrong for a landlord to make a profit from their property which was literally built for that purposes, you’re a fucking idiot.

What to know who’s had enough though? Landlords trying to keep their properties afloat. How many people took advantage of the COVID money and didn’t pay their landlords for their rent? How many landlords have had to deal with assholes who destroyed their apartment? How many owner occupying landlords have had to deal with tenants who can’t show any common decency with their neighbors?

Go and sit in on some eviction cases brought to court and listen to the problems these landlords have had to deal with. Sometimes these tenants deserve to be kicked out on the street to fend for themselves because of their actions.

−1

Alternative-Bat-8453 t1_ja7ph73 wrote

Housing is a human right. You and I differ fundamentally. I believe housing being used for a profit is inhumane. You believe you’re entitled to it. We will never agree, but I didn’t call you names and act like an emotionally undeveloped human.

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SaltyNewEnglandCop t1_ja7pu3z wrote

I’m entitled to any return of my investment, like every other person who takes the financial risk to buy a multi family and houses other people.

I’m inclined to think you probably think your education beyond high school should be free, and your water bill should be non existent, and everything should be affordable and millionaires should be criminals.

Am I right?

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Jalil29 t1_ja1awb2 wrote

Seems like they just want a process to be able to seal an eviction and not by default. I'd imagine you'd have to prove a suitable reason. When I was younger, we got evicted because we told the landlord that a ceiling tile fell out because it rained and there was a leak. Landlord took us to court for eviction and tricked my mom into not going.

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radarmy t1_j9zi7mi wrote

Demanding upgrades to your rented housing may lead to increased rents

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MrArkAngel11 OP t1_j9zvcos wrote

Ah yes. The no rats in the wall package is an extra 300 a month!

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airforcereserve t1_j9zcpz6 wrote

Bad landlords are bad businessmen. These older units are rented at below market rate and are occupied by lower income families. To fetch the highest ROIs each unit should be modernized with granite countertops, satin paints, brazilian hardwood, and stainless steel appliances. This will take a couple months of construction but at the end of the day the lower income families will be replaced by young progressive professionals which leads to higher property taxes and more funding for homeless services.

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Icy-Memory-5575 t1_ja12qq7 wrote

Idk why all the downvotes this is exactly what will happen. The city will give these slumlords time to make repairs, which they will. The places will be nicer, then the tenants will get rent increase letters to fair market value. And the tenant will leave

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