Opinions on current usage of DePasquale Square?

Submitted by pvdjay t3_y2aw2t in providence

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August 2017

Photo credit: (August 2017: Michael Kelly)

What do you think about how DePasquale Square in Federal Hill is used today? I've noticed that the outdoor restaurant seating has been steadily encroaching on the public space over the years. This trend accelerated greatly during the height of the COVID-19 pandemic as the city (rightfully) granted more outdoor seating space to restaurants struggling to find safe seating for their patrons. As the pandemic wanes, is it time for us to reallocate this public space?

In the past, DePasquale Square was enjoyed by more than paying restaurant-goers. People would sit and take in the scene, children would run and play, and couples would dance in the open area front of the fountain. Today, with the exception of a narrow path allowing pedestrian access between Atwells Ave. and Spruce Street, it is exclusively patio seating for a few restaurants.

The fountain in DePasquale Square was just repaired with $372,231 of tax dollars (borrowed--bond issue). I can appreciate the economic value that Federal Hill provides to Providence as a regional dining destination and don't disagree with the idea of lending public space to support those restaurants; however, It doesn't seem reasonable to cede the entirety of a public space to a few private businesses.

September 2022

Photo credit: (September 2022: Barry Schneider)

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Comments

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-_-oo-_- t1_is1zo3r wrote

Wow, I think nobody realizes it's not a restaurant's private property. So yes it should be more accessible, and more clear what are the rules and limitations of the restaurants' borrowing of public property.

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Mountain_Bill5743 t1_is502mx wrote

Yeah I thought it was getting bad lately, but I thought maybe I was misremembering. I have a photo from summer 2017 where you can clearly see the tables behind the right side of the fountation (adjacent to the restaurant)-- leaving a walking space around the whole thing. The center used to be completely open. Last time I was there a few weeks ago, I had to explain to my friend that it was public property even though it was literally fenced in and that we could walk over. I still didn't stay long as it felt like I was hovering around people eating.

OP, what can be done? It always seems like Federal Hill restaurants are given a lot of leverage.

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pvdjay OP t1_is62rl9 wrote

I’m guessing the Providence Board of Licenses has granted these restaurants “Seasonal Expansion of Premises” licenses. I’d also assume they will expire at the end of this season and will require renewal next year. Perhaps a convo with someone at the board of licenses? Or maybe there’s a hearing process? I am sure someone else can speak to this better than I can.

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rustybullrake t1_is1v9l3 wrote

I had no idea the square wasn't owned by Venda, it's been entirely restaurant seating anytime I've been by in the last 2 years.

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LongRhode t1_is1vu5n wrote

Far too much restaurant seating. Needs open spaces to stroll and some public benches

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Thac0 t1_is2iavv wrote

I feel like the entire square is only for paying restaurant customers. I’ve never gone there to enjoy the square or area because of this perception.

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pvdjay OP t1_is2mdty wrote

Exactly. That is new, by the way.

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Thac0 t1_is2nqim wrote

This is America. I always feel like I’m not welcome anywhere except a public park if I’m not spending money if I’m honest

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Proof-Variation7005 t1_is1usoc wrote

I say we drain the water and put the plants back in the fountain. Anything else you wanna do is fine, but the way some people lost their fucking minds over that was my favorite thing Elorza has ever done.

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cometpants t1_is2i2o7 wrote

I wish the back end of the plaza was a bit more free form. The way the two restaurants off of Spruce Street are boxed in feels defensive and uninviting. I wish the whole square was a bit more free form - with the restaurants tables and chairs emanating from the restaurants into the square like you’d see in an Italian plaza.

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overthehillhat t1_is2mo4d wrote

Yogi Berra would probably say:

"Nobody goes there anymore - -

It's too crowded "

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khinzeer t1_is28niq wrote

I love going there. It's one of my favorite places to go out with friends in the summer, I think the extra seating makes it more festive, and you never have to wait.

Restaurants and entertainment bring us a lot of tax revenue and a lot of decent working class jobs (i used to wait tables at constantinos/venda, it's a good place to work). Places like DePasquale Square bring that Boston/suburb money into Providence for dinner, and then those folks usually spend money across the city in the course of the evening. I think it's probably a good investment

I love chilling in public parks, but DePasquale square isn't that fun to hang out in: look at it: there are no public seats, it's all paved. There are two available, much nicer public parks (my favorite: the Bocci park and st. johns) within easy walking distance.....

I don't see the problem

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Seasnek t1_is37620 wrote

Man I would love it if there was regular public seating fits a great spot I would sit there and read a book or draw. I never knew it was public! It def should be opened back up to the public

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khinzeer t1_is37eq1 wrote

You make much use of the bocci park or St. John’s?

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LivonSunday- t1_is3c9g0 wrote

That doesn’t feel too inviting when there’s old men playing bocce we need to take back the public domain I used to love reading around the fountain around 2010 my first apartment was on depasquale now it’s like Venda/ Gianfranco property smh

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khinzeer t1_is3cktb wrote

Lol if you scared of old Italian bocci players, wait till you see drunk Italian twenty somethings. Maybe the neighborhood isn’t for you?

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LivonSunday- t1_is3cpx7 wrote

Idk if I used the word scared pretty sure I said unwelcome as a female it’s like they get entertained by catcalling and disrupting my art or book reading….

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khinzeer t1_is3f76b wrote

What I’m trying to say is depasquale square as-is is pretty unique. we don’t have many other places in providence that are like it: car-free, diverse in terms of race/age/class, walkable to other fun stuff. The bars and restaurants are a big part of the vibe (not even taking account the tax revenue, jobs, etc.) and I think they should be encouraged.

On the other hand, we as a city are blessed with a TON of publicly available green space, fed hill included. There is something for everyone, but fed hill has a specific character.

If you didn’t like the bocci park because it’s full of fed hill people, you prob won’t like another park full of the same fed hill people.

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LivonSunday- t1_is3fp9c wrote

I enjoy anywhere anyone else would like to go, is it inappropriate that I asked to be respected as a human in those spaces…? Maybe instead of you telling me I should be more like those undesirable humans that have turned me away from wanting to hang out in open public places due to their bad behavior?

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khinzeer t1_is5k69f wrote

Your comment is a little incoherent? You didn't really finish your thought in the last sentence?

I'm not telling you to be like anything, and I'm not condoning the social attitudes of elderly Italian-American men. However, they ain't gonna change, and fed hill is theirs.

As someone who grew up in providence hanging out in MUCH more hostile/dangerous parks than the Bocci court, I can tell you that enjoying public spaces in urban areas takes having a somewhat thick skin. They aren't for everyone, it is what it is.

I think you are representative of the type of person who is advocating replacing well-utilized, fun restaurant space with half-assed park space that you won't use and that will be under utilized generally.

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rustybullrake t1_is6q7dv wrote

I held off on responding to your initial "we should give public spaces maintained with taxpayer money to businesses because money and stuff" comment.

But just so you know, it's not a great look telling women to grow a thicker skin when it comes to being harassed by men in public. I'm sure you were unaware, but doing so can make you sound like an ignorant asshole.

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khinzeer t1_is6rbrb wrote

I’m not telling her to grow thicker skin, I’m just pointing out that she is not going to use or like the institutions she’s advocating.

If someone doesn’t like neighborhood parks because they are open to the (often not-perfect) members of the public, it’s silly for them to advocate more public parks, especially when there are opportunity costs to establishing said parks.

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rustybullrake t1_is6tbm3 wrote

There's a square already there, no establishment necessary. Just get the restaurant to stop squatting on the whole thing.

>she is not going to use or like the institutions

Says who? According to what?

>If someone doesn’t like neighborhood parks because they are open to the (often not-perfect) members of the public

Oh gimme a break. You know that's not at all what she said, get outta here with this weak sauce.

I don't know why you're acting like you've got a personal stake in making sure that Constantino's gets to occupy the entirety of a public space, but you're not doing them any favors with the way you're going about it. Quit digging.

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khinzeer t1_is6tvdg wrote

Uhh I’m there most weekends in the summer, and I love walkable, diverse spaces where you can buy food and support small businesses. I’d like there to be more of these places, including in underutilized parks.

I do have a personal stake in it.

Also (obviously) I enjoy arguing with you losers on reddit. It's a vice. It's fun for me.

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LivonSunday- t1_is7x9dv wrote

People defending women being sexually harassed by the likes of you? You have personal stake not even living in the city…? Weir flec but ok 👌 I’m a social worker and quite often need public spaces to offer parents more than a room with a chair and desk for their kids- also if I decide I enjoy spending my time AGAIN MY as in subjective to me someone you don’t know… you seem like a troll and you really showed your a$$ with the thick skin comment for men sexually harassing me no matter where I am. I guess what I’m trying to say is… maybe your a loser babe 😘

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khinzeer t1_is7xq6p wrote

…I’ve lived in the city limits providence since I was three months old.

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LivonSunday- t1_is7xt50 wrote

Then your on Reddit lying saying your a business owner living in Boston weird as hell!

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khinzeer t1_is7xw00 wrote

… I think you’re confused.

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LivonSunday- t1_is7y5ki wrote

I think your a troll you don’t live in providence or your life is a lie on Reddit either one I don’t care cause you’re tenacity to wanna fight with people online is confusing and concerning I’m a woman that agreed restaurants are overtaking the square…. You’re still on about God even knows what thick skin bocce players who cares God bless you

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khinzeer t1_is88kvy wrote

i apologize for being insensitive. obviously i get a *little worked up* about zoning issues in providence, but you are my neighbor, and i'm truly sorry you were made to feel unwelcome anywhere in providence.

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LivonSunday- t1_is8a6bc wrote

thoughtful apology and I appreciate that. I understand how people can get furious over stuff that is minuscule to others thank you and again god bless

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rustybullrake t1_is6ulna wrote

Ah yes, a public square completely blocked with private restaurant seating. How diverse. How walkable.

It's underutilized? Can't imagine why. Perhaps because no one can utilize it?

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khinzeer t1_is6v4zt wrote

Oh you don't spend much time in fed hill huh? makes more sense now.

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rustybullrake t1_is6vs74 wrote

My guy, I am there every week for sfogliatelle and biscotti.

You've got a bad habit of making assumptions about people and acting like it's fact.

No need to get heated. Sounds like someone needs to grow a thicker skin?

Keep digging, I'll see myself out.

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[deleted] t1_is6s30d wrote

[deleted]

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khinzeer t1_is6sotv wrote

I live in the real world. I could ask these goombas to be nicer, but it would not change their behavior. So what does that mean? Physically remove them?

How would you advocate driving the elderly Italian men and sleepy homeless guys out of the park? Muscular police presence? Violent initial show of force followed by undercover enforcement?

On this sub there is a simultaneous ideological obsession w public spaces that’s combined w a fear and dislike of the types of people who will inevitably congregate in public providence parks.

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LivonSunday- t1_is7xnd8 wrote

I wanted to be the bigger person but your largest accomplishment on Reddit was getting roasted because you got jumped by 4 grown men in your own house had no proof and said how can I get money for this ☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️

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LivonSunday- t1_is3fho4 wrote

Actually I’ve enjoyed myself quite a bit since my last art project turned into men over 60 with mob mentality AnyWho been living on and off the hill the past 15 years I was just agreeing that DiPasquale is overtaken by the restaurants a common agreement among other people here… is there any reason you’re not asking them to leave the hill 😂😂😂

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SideBarParty t1_is3hvpg wrote

No one from Boston is driving to Providence specifically to eat at any of the restaurants in DePasquale Square

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khinzeer t1_is3idg9 wrote

As someone who used to work there, I can tell you you’re incorrect. North end is played out.

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SideBarParty t1_is3ioxb wrote

As someone who knows the best Italian restaurants in Boston are NOT in the north end… I still am telling you no one is fucking visiting Providence just to eat at the Plaza or Constantinos.

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vegemouse t1_is1u9c1 wrote

I don’t mind it since i’m big on outdoor seating. It would be nice if it was public seating. Usually I hate when restaurants open up seating on the sidewalk or bike lane, but this doesn’t seem like any roads or sidewalks are blocked.

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NinjaSant4 t1_is2ic1x wrote

I think its use has been more or less established as an outdoor restaurant seating area.

Theres a few parks on federal hill they could spend some extra funding on to make nicer, and 45k to repair the fountain was kind of a bad use. I'd be super into them adding some more public seating/tables in the surrounding spots that don't have a ton of anti-homeless architecture so you can actually hang out and enjoy the space.

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pvdjay OP t1_is2m9z1 wrote

To clarify, they spent almost $400k on the fountain, not $45k

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Hollowplanet t1_is39ci4 wrote

That has to be a bribe. 400k for some cracked underground pipes? You could get a whole new fountain.

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Mountain_Bill5743 t1_is4zf9x wrote

someone drove into it around 2019/2020, so maybe that upped the cost, as well.

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NinjaSant4 t1_is3a0cq wrote

Obviously a bad investment when they could've had the business owners surrounding the fountain contribute but god forbid Venda paya for how much of the public space they take up.

It's bad usage of funds but the city isn't great with priorities, if they have a few businesses complaining they really bend over backwards.

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Double_Farmer_2662 t1_is3e2yl wrote

You can barely even cut through the plaza to get to the other side! I wish there was less outdoor seating and maybe just more public tables and places to sit! There’s so many places that you can grab food/snacks from that don’t have any real seating. It’d be nice to make it back to a public space!

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virginiaveritas t1_is6cien wrote

I had my 21st birthday on the Hill in 200?. I saw Buddy, had my first Martini, and then proceeded to walk in the fountain. No body cared because nobody was there. It was a Friday night in August. The square was empty and the only sound was the bubbling water. Maybe it was midnight. Maybe.

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Yesterday, at around 11am, I'm making the rounds for a dinner party I'm preparing. Pastiche, Venda, Gasbarro's, Roma, Scialo Bros. Bakery. I parked over by Pastiche because the tart needs to be the last thing I pick up since it can't sit in the car while I finish running errands. Trying to walk from Pastiche to Venda, through DePasquale Square was a minefield. There were no "dining al fresco" people at 11am. The waiters from the restaurants were slinging plastic chairs everywhere and one almost hit me as I walked by. There's no clear path through the square. I was bobbing and weaving through a maze of planters and unoccupied tables. Why isn't there a path through the middle? These restaurants survived just fine 20 years ago without expanding their table tops by 100% with out dining. La Dolce Vita always had outdoor dining, but it never expanded to what it is now. It's a little ridiculous.

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I can understand setting aside space for performances and concerts, but to relinquish all of the public park space to private businesses does not make sense. If I was in a wheelchair, I don't think I could have gotten through the park at all.

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LMZN t1_is5swb8 wrote

I live pretty close to Federal Hill and I avoid it altogether. I have no interests in that area.

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Gribblestix t1_isd7q6q wrote

Outdoor dining is always a good thing

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edthesmokebeard t1_ishwpxc wrote

You must be new here.

The square was renovated FOR the restaurants. Thats how the city operates. Restaurants pay city hall, city hall does things for them, everyone wins, except you. But you don't matter because either way they're in office and you can't do anything.

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GoGatorsMashedTaters t1_is22wc4 wrote

As long as that butcher is next to it, I don’t really care to sit over there even with more available seating. Beautiful area though and I support opening the area up.

Edit: I support hearing any ideas for that area because there is absolutely room to improve.

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cometpants t1_is2i96s wrote

That massive chicken and cutout better never leave!

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