Locksmith-Pitiful OP t1_iv0szex wrote on November 4, 2022 at 1:10 PM

Reply to comment by big_whistler in Why does everyone hate Elorza? by Locksmith-Pitiful

Providence is such a small city I rarely ever see a need to drive 🤷 I also don't see a need to have half our city be a concrete lot at the expense of everything else.

WickedDog310 t1_iv1ugdl wrote on November 4, 2022 at 5:24 PM

You don't need to drive in Providence, but many of us need to drive to get into Providence. Once you're in the neighborhood you want to be in, you're fine, but you have to be able to get downtown, or whatever neighborhood you want. It's a catch 22, you can't have a great walkable city without infrastructure changes and increases in RIPTA, but you won't get those things until you have the userbase to necessitate it, and that population won't come if it's not convenient. As a capitol city, it gets a substantial number of out of towners, they have to get to the city some how, and RIPTA isn't convenient. I live in Riverside and work in Providence, it takes me 25-20 minutes to drive to work everyday, but would take 1:35 on RIPTA. I don't want to see Providence paved over, but I have to be able to conveniently get into the city, so that I can enjoy it. I want better RIPTA service so I can take RIPTA home from a night out in Providence. Right now, the last bus from KP leaves at 10:30, that's barely dinner, no show, no dancing.

Locksmith-Pitiful OP t1_iv1vfj2 wrote on November 4, 2022 at 5:30 PM

I'm not sure how many "out of towners" come into the city and our state and whether that means we should even accommodate them. I've heard similar people in your position as arguments against more sidewalks and bike lanes, ie, "I have to commute by car from X town in RI and RIPTA sucks."

To me, that brings up two issues: Should we accommodate, especially in such a small, dense city, to cars? And why aren't we understanding that this infrastructure reduces car use among everyone? Let's be real, most people drive in Providence even if the destination is down the block because it's dangerous otherwise. I'm also not sure it's the responsibility of such a city to accommodate out of towners.

WickedDog310 t1_iv25as9 wrote on November 4, 2022 at 6:33 PM

You'd be surprised at the number of people who don't live in Providence who visit every weekend. My friend is from Brockton, not a transplant, actually from Brockton, and she drives out here 2-3 times a week. She goes out in Providence more than I do.

You say "should we choose to accommodate cars", like Providence hasn't been doing that for 50 years. The reason the walkable city mentality is having trouble is because pvd has prioritized cars for 2? 3? generations, no one remembers when Providence had street cars, and you could take a street car to Cresent Park or Rocky Point. Now we're having to pull back that infrastructure in favor of pedestrian infrastructure. People don't like what they perceive as a step backward. People aren't understanding that infrastructure reduces car use among everyone because they don't want to. They either can't see 5 moves ahead to understand that, or they feel entitled to be able to take their cars everywhere because the US is such a car-centric country, and our rugged individualism views public transit as less than.

I don't think most people drive in Providence because it's dangerous to walk. I'd argue there are more car windows broken and cars ransacked every night than there are muggings. Compare Providence to the next most populated city country wide, Knoxville? And you'll see Rhode Island has significantly less crime. Providence isn't a dangerous city if you look at 2021's crime report and look at what's considered street crime (robberies and assaults), there were a total of 2,409 offenses all year. This averages out to 6.6 crimes a night. If WaterFire brings in an average of 40k people, let's assume there are 10k people who are going out on a normal Friday night and triple the average crime rate because there's more crime on a Friday night than a Tuesday night. That's one crime for every 5,000 people out. And yes, I know street crime is under-reported, and that's not even taking into account that most reported crime is committed by people known to the victim and not strangers. But seriously, can we stop saying Providence is dangerous? It's a bullshit excuse people from the suburbs use to say I'm uncomfortable if there are people of color in my vicinity.

You can choose not to accommodate people who don't live outside providence, but most of the Providence economy is service industry, and if you take the patrons away, Providence will be right back where it was in the 70's and 80's.

Locksmith-Pitiful OP t1_iv2tbmw wrote on November 4, 2022 at 9:15 PM

>You can choose not to accommodate people who don't live outside providence,

You literally wrote a whole thesis proving we shouldn't. It's either Providence is a big parking lot for outside traffic or that it invests in other infrastructure.

WickedDog310 t1_iv2tjt8 wrote on November 4, 2022 at 9:16 PM

Exactly, Providence shouldn't. It can choose to, but it would be bad for the city it would be bad for the state. I didn't argue saying it was a good option. I just said it was an option and I warned what would happen if it was taken.