Providence vs Johnston Schools

Submitted by Ragetheprofet t3_10ffcx2 in providence

I bought a house on the Providence/Johnston line and have been sent registration (Kindergarten) for both schools systems (we have an interesting tax vs address situation). Anyway, which of the schools/system is recommended. My wife is a high school teacher in Lincoln and has her reservations about Providence. I came up on the school system (middle school through high school) and while it wasn't the best it wasn't horrible in my opinion. I graduated back in 2007 so it's been a long time and I know the state took over Providence schools and that there is a shortage of teachers, which doesn't fair well but the latter seems more temporary while the economy bounces back (the latter of these is my wife's main concern). I would appreciate any thoughts and opinions. Thank you in advance.

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Mountain_Bill5743 t1_j4xa4rx wrote

Providence has a teacher problem because it has a morale problem.

Imagine you are fresh out of college and one job has good pay and benefits, fixed hours, no negative press, and supportive upper management. Another job has the same pay and benefits, fixed hours, very negative press about its employees (soon yourself), and upper management that is openly antagonistic about its workers. Your wife is probably very aware of this kind of dynamic district to district.

Overall, a state takeover means a lot of control. So a district like Johnston (which I hear mixed reviews from grads) is going to have a lot more flexibility with curriculum and testing (whether it is flexible all depends on the district culture). Providence is going to have less room to bend.

I think whatever happens your kid will be fine with a two very involved parents, one of which is a teacher.

edit: you should sit on a school board meeting for both. I believed Providence has one tonight that can be accessed remotely.

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Ragetheprofet OP t1_j4ydwxh wrote

Thanks for the input. Will have to keep a look out for the meetings. I can't make tonight's due to an emergency. Thank you for the heads up though!

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couldbeworseeeeee t1_j4xsvpk wrote

There's no shortage of teachers in Providence. There is a teacher retention problem. Work conditions, morale, and lack of respect has high quality teachers running away to other districts. But, that's not to say that the teachers do a poor job. Many I have met and worked with are phenomenal and dedicated. They are just working in conditions stacked to make them fail.

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Ragetheprofet OP t1_j4yfs2s wrote

Very unfortunate! My wife was offered a job at PCTA and she declined it in favor for Davies. She heard a lot of what your saying when she asked around.

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Hdale803 t1_j4xyqpg wrote

I work in public education across the state and Johnston is 1000000% the choice Providence is going to take YEARS to turn around, whereas Johnston is consistently decent

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the_falconator t1_j4xj55o wrote

Providence Schools are legitimately one of the worst in the country. 1000% enroll them in Johnston Schools.

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Educational_Leg36 t1_j4x0gvz wrote

There's a pretty sharp divide now between the city and the surrounding schools. Back when I went in the early 2000s schools were pretty racially diverse and Inclusove to all. Field trips, lots of honors students, school events, sports etc.

I have younger relatives in it now. From what I've heard from them it's pretty shitty, even for someone like me an hispanic who is part of the shitty part of providence according to some here on this reddit. There are no field trips or extra curriculum activities even since before covid. Many schools dont let you take books home, either text books or reading books. Classroom vibe is a mess with too many wannabe "bad/hood" kids. Teachers no longer care. Big population of foreign born/ migrants that bully the US born kids

I would say unless you need some good aftercare options k and elementary school will be good in that regard. Or if you want your kid to attend classical, it still retains alot of that old schooling on top of being progressive and still the top school in RI.

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Ragetheprofet OP t1_j4ygott wrote

The middle paragraph is not too far off from my time in the system and that was 2000-2007. For high school we're waving options between her attending my wife's school (if she is there 10 yrs from now), classical, and if all else fails private.

Aftercare wouldn't be an issue. I am fortunate that my job is fully remote (has always been), so she would just stay home with me once school is out.

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TimeSlipperWHOOPS t1_j4wo2zt wrote

I'm not familiar with Johnston but I would be hesitant to send my kid to Providence schools if I had another option. Depends on which specific schools you would be districted for I suppose.

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Full_Egg_4731 t1_j4yeuso wrote

Carnevale is a really wonderful school with a fantastic principal and staff.

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Oblivious-abe-69 t1_j50gts3 wrote

I tried to work for prov system, got hired/background checks and everything and then they lost my file and kept asking for the same paperwork (3 times).

I ended up giving up after 2-3 months when they said onboarding would take 2-3 weeks.

I also heard from other teachers there are a LOT of fights between students, and it’s just not a good situation at all there.

Go with Johnston

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pammy222 t1_j4yudtc wrote

The whole state has a problem because it’s a Liberal Democrat State…When will Rhode Islanders become Awake rather then Woke…🤔

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leavingthecold t1_j4wwn6z wrote

I have a friend who went through some shit like this. Purchased a house in Cranston but right on the Prov/Cranston line towards Washington Park.

Now don't quote me verbatim and only going from memory of the story he told me. He registered his kid to go to school in Cranston, since that's where he lived duh but they said the kid had to go to school in Providence huh and there were no more spots in Cranston.

End result was his kid went to school in Providence and he received some property tax refund from the city of Cranston. Not sure how long this went on but they eventually sold the house and moved to North Providence.

Providence schools with the exception of some have been shit since the 90's and I only found this out in the late 2010's way after I graduated from school. Truth be told , they are pushing for more Bilingual teachers and dual classes for Spanish says a whole lot right there. Sure didn't see them pushing for Ebonics like in Oakland during the 90's lol. I recall going to school with country bumpkin parents that do not speak a European language at home despite coming from a former European colony couldn't help me with shit at home. No extra language resources. We were just thrown in with regular kids and grasped English just fine minus some. But this is a totally new day and time with many new factors. Not sure what the outcome if I were in the present.

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TimeSlipperWHOOPS t1_j4x38ag wrote

Do.... do you think bilingual teachers and dual language classes are a bad idea?

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TimeSlipperWHOOPS t1_j4xffrl wrote

You're intentionally comparing/contrasting "white students" with "riff raff," right? I'm not just misreading this? And please expand a bit on being fortunate over a lack of diversity.

These two statements come across as wickedly racist and... I just kind of want to know how to proceed here.

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leavingthecold t1_j50z10b wrote

Of course everything is racist ok, you got some not all suburban riff raff then you get some people who lived in shitty areas of Providence all their lives that just happen to make it to the nearby burbs and bring their shitty practices which leads to the people you see at Crossroads.

Diversity if you seen more East Asian students in Providence classrooms a'lot of people would be crying. Oh no my Lee is out performing everyone is academics even the teacher how will my kids compete. Don't you read the news even Harvard and other higher institutions of learning can do legally do this. Check ex mayor from NYC Bill DeBlasio and specialized high schools and what he tried to do all for "diversity"

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leavingthecold t1_j4x4a70 wrote

In theory no but when it's allocated for 1 group only then yes. Look at Providence school demographics from the 80's 90's compared to now. Tell me you don't see a major difference.

I can't speak for everyone but I don't recall ESL being offered in my elementary school despite having a good percentage of non English speakers.

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TimeSlipperWHOOPS t1_j4x4odp wrote

And maybe it should have been as it would have been a benefit to those students?

What were the demographics in the 80s and 90s? I don't have historical data on hand.

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leavingthecold t1_j4x5wz2 wrote

I wasn't here in the 80's but based on US history time line immigration laws were relaxed to an extent. But from my readings mid 70's early 80's Providence saw many people come here in as economic migrants, war refugees, from West Africa, Central America, Southeast Asia, Caribbean, etc.

Now you barely see new migration from West Africa, or Southeast Asia or even Southern Europe. Immigration lack of enforcement or turning the blind eye is what you see currently for Providence's demographic. I'm sure earlier groups ( Italians, Irish, Portuguese ) benefitted from blind eye policies prior as well back when most didn't even have a birth certificate or social security card.

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TimeSlipperWHOOPS t1_j4x72sg wrote

"Look at the demographics!"

"I don't have them do you?"

"No but obviously they prove me right"

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leavingthecold t1_j4x88d4 wrote

From a lived experience and currently still live here that is the data. If you have lived here for over 30-40 years just look around not hard to tell.

I don't see anyone with countering data to prove what I said wrong either

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TimeSlipperWHOOPS t1_j4xeeq5 wrote

I guess I'm really just struggling to understand your point at all. You seem to be saying that the increase in MLL services in providence is proof of a lower quality school system. Is this because you think a focus on these services lowers the academic rigor? That it attracts those with less academic interest? Why does "see look at how much effort is going into bilingual teachers and classes" a sign of a worse off school?

Or I've completely misread your point and would kindly ask you to restate them for me.

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leavingthecold t1_j4ymi09 wrote

I'm guessing you never went to school in Providence or with a heavy student body consisting of people from different countries

The bilingual teachers are there usually for Spanish speakers, tell me how many are bilingual in some Asian, Middle Eastern, African language you know those people exist here as well.

Ironically those that were in ESL class didn't do any better than non native English speakers who happen to be in regular classes. Imagine that.

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Educational_Leg36 t1_j4xb4km wrote

Portuguese immigration is live and well. In fact it's lot of them are here illegally due to overstayed/expired visas.

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leavingthecold t1_j4y2tif wrote

Same with Irish, Italian, and other newer European groups but its really not spoken on since the numbers of recent ones still are smaller than whats coming from south of the border. The media will shift to that narrative instead of telling it like it is based on location.

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Educational_Leg36 t1_j4xasd1 wrote

Because esl is new. They offered Spanish here and in newbedford They offered Portuguese.

Don't know why you think it's a bad thing? It was made to better help kids adapt to life in the us.

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leavingthecold t1_j4y2kj3 wrote

Never said it was a bad thing if you read, the part that is bad is when all the ESL resources is for 1 group, not taking into consideration those that don't come from European language speaking countries.

ESL is not new unless you are really young. I get it has to do with demographic but also in doing so it excludes the people with lower number demographics.

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Mountain_Bill5743 t1_j4xdeve wrote

ESL is offered much the same way that the ADA is offered-- its a legal mandate at the national level. The Department of Justice has sued both Boston and Providence regarding compliance. If Barrington got an influx of non native speakers tomorrow, they'd need to revamp their courses as well. You wouldn't get mad at kids with learning disabilities for having resources allocated to them, so have the same empathy for multilingual students.

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leavingthecold t1_j4y4myg wrote

Is this something you saw yourself within the past 30-40 years? I can tell you a bunch of elementary schools in Providence that didn't offer ESL for whatever reason but had a high amount of non English non European language speakers. I didnt see it until middle school and high school. You know what the funny thing was , kids thrown in the mix at an early age didn't need it unless they were playing stupid and being lazy, the only ones that needed it were recent arrivals that came in teenage years.

Lets not throw Barrington in the mix, the property values and taxes wouldn't let that happen.

I'm very well versed in multilingual students, as i went to school with more than a handful. But you know ESL here is focused on Spanish speaking students, there are people from Africa, Asia,etc here that have different languages and writing systems that veer way far from who the curriculum is focused on.

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Mountain_Bill5743 t1_j4y9ghj wrote

Its the law.

It didn't happen back then....which is why they were sued by the Federal Government.

Is Barrington part of the Federal Government? Then its also the law there.

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leavingthecold t1_j4ylubj wrote

The law on the books probably enforced only when someone cries

Barrington again, any person that doesnt' speak English moving there more than likely will come from money or they would be able to afford to live there. More than likely can hire private tutors. So its not needed law or not.

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Ragetheprofet OP t1_j4x2aa0 wrote

It's definitely a strange situation. Our taxes are Providence but literally everything else is Johnston. The zip code is a Johnston zip code but when we get mail from town hall (Providence) the zip code isn't even the same but it is the Johnston zip code online. In any case, my kids are mixed race, I'm Hispanic and my wife is white. We want them to be in a well integrated school system, but from what I can tell I think Johnston is, too. Especially, at the expense of a better education/experience. Anyway, there def were some challenges in the school system when I was coming up. Can't say I was the most prepared for college, but fortunately I've always been studious and hardworking and caught up quickly. Given what you are saying, based on your friends experience, I'm assuming that our option will be Johnston. We've only received mail from them. The Providence angle came from daycare, which she goes to a Providence daycare and that is where we had to fill out paperwork for a district representative to visit the daycare and analyze all of the kids entering kindergarten. Originally, we were not all that concerned but it seems like it is a shit show right now in PPSD.

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huron9000 t1_j50bjmg wrote

You can pay property taxes to Providence and legally enroll your child in the Johnston school system?

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leavingthecold t1_j4x3kgk wrote

I have friends that went to school in Johnston during the 90's and was shocked to find out they actually had ESL (English As A Second Language). Not sure who it was geared to possibly new Italian immigrants at one point.

I think Johnston may have a little more non white students compared to the 90's but I doubt its like night and day there now. Still you can see some riff raff seeping in there along with some tenured shitheads.

I guess we are actually fortunate Providence isn't as " diverse " as it should be at least from a numerical standpoint. Imagine more East Asian kids ( mainly Chinese, Korean ) come here and kids actually had to compete with them in academics. Shit show waiting to happen like in NYC with the ex mayor DiBlasio and supporters trying to suppress their merit.

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