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leavingthecold t1_j4x4a70 wrote

Reply to comment by TimeSlipperWHOOPS in Providence vs Johnston Schools by Ragetheprofet

In theory no but when it's allocated for 1 group only then yes. Look at Providence school demographics from the 80's 90's compared to now. Tell me you don't see a major difference.

I can't speak for everyone but I don't recall ESL being offered in my elementary school despite having a good percentage of non English speakers.

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TimeSlipperWHOOPS t1_j4x4odp wrote

And maybe it should have been as it would have been a benefit to those students?

What were the demographics in the 80s and 90s? I don't have historical data on hand.

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leavingthecold t1_j4x5wz2 wrote

I wasn't here in the 80's but based on US history time line immigration laws were relaxed to an extent. But from my readings mid 70's early 80's Providence saw many people come here in as economic migrants, war refugees, from West Africa, Central America, Southeast Asia, Caribbean, etc.

Now you barely see new migration from West Africa, or Southeast Asia or even Southern Europe. Immigration lack of enforcement or turning the blind eye is what you see currently for Providence's demographic. I'm sure earlier groups ( Italians, Irish, Portuguese ) benefitted from blind eye policies prior as well back when most didn't even have a birth certificate or social security card.

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TimeSlipperWHOOPS t1_j4x72sg wrote

"Look at the demographics!"

"I don't have them do you?"

"No but obviously they prove me right"

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leavingthecold t1_j4x88d4 wrote

From a lived experience and currently still live here that is the data. If you have lived here for over 30-40 years just look around not hard to tell.

I don't see anyone with countering data to prove what I said wrong either

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TimeSlipperWHOOPS t1_j4xeeq5 wrote

I guess I'm really just struggling to understand your point at all. You seem to be saying that the increase in MLL services in providence is proof of a lower quality school system. Is this because you think a focus on these services lowers the academic rigor? That it attracts those with less academic interest? Why does "see look at how much effort is going into bilingual teachers and classes" a sign of a worse off school?

Or I've completely misread your point and would kindly ask you to restate them for me.

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leavingthecold t1_j4ymi09 wrote

I'm guessing you never went to school in Providence or with a heavy student body consisting of people from different countries

The bilingual teachers are there usually for Spanish speakers, tell me how many are bilingual in some Asian, Middle Eastern, African language you know those people exist here as well.

Ironically those that were in ESL class didn't do any better than non native English speakers who happen to be in regular classes. Imagine that.

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Educational_Leg36 t1_j4xb4km wrote

Portuguese immigration is live and well. In fact it's lot of them are here illegally due to overstayed/expired visas.

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leavingthecold t1_j4y2tif wrote

Same with Irish, Italian, and other newer European groups but its really not spoken on since the numbers of recent ones still are smaller than whats coming from south of the border. The media will shift to that narrative instead of telling it like it is based on location.

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Educational_Leg36 t1_j4xasd1 wrote

Because esl is new. They offered Spanish here and in newbedford They offered Portuguese.

Don't know why you think it's a bad thing? It was made to better help kids adapt to life in the us.

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leavingthecold t1_j4y2kj3 wrote

Never said it was a bad thing if you read, the part that is bad is when all the ESL resources is for 1 group, not taking into consideration those that don't come from European language speaking countries.

ESL is not new unless you are really young. I get it has to do with demographic but also in doing so it excludes the people with lower number demographics.

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Mountain_Bill5743 t1_j4xdeve wrote

ESL is offered much the same way that the ADA is offered-- its a legal mandate at the national level. The Department of Justice has sued both Boston and Providence regarding compliance. If Barrington got an influx of non native speakers tomorrow, they'd need to revamp their courses as well. You wouldn't get mad at kids with learning disabilities for having resources allocated to them, so have the same empathy for multilingual students.

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leavingthecold t1_j4y4myg wrote

Is this something you saw yourself within the past 30-40 years? I can tell you a bunch of elementary schools in Providence that didn't offer ESL for whatever reason but had a high amount of non English non European language speakers. I didnt see it until middle school and high school. You know what the funny thing was , kids thrown in the mix at an early age didn't need it unless they were playing stupid and being lazy, the only ones that needed it were recent arrivals that came in teenage years.

Lets not throw Barrington in the mix, the property values and taxes wouldn't let that happen.

I'm very well versed in multilingual students, as i went to school with more than a handful. But you know ESL here is focused on Spanish speaking students, there are people from Africa, Asia,etc here that have different languages and writing systems that veer way far from who the curriculum is focused on.

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Mountain_Bill5743 t1_j4y9ghj wrote

Its the law.

It didn't happen back then....which is why they were sued by the Federal Government.

Is Barrington part of the Federal Government? Then its also the law there.

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leavingthecold t1_j4ylubj wrote

The law on the books probably enforced only when someone cries

Barrington again, any person that doesnt' speak English moving there more than likely will come from money or they would be able to afford to live there. More than likely can hire private tutors. So its not needed law or not.

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