Comments
choicebutts OP t1_ja2wudx wrote
Consider working up a separate post for the Saves Act and the other bill if you have the time. I'd like to know more about it and I'm sure that some of the folks who follow this sort of thing are looking for good information on how to help.
I have nothing but respect for 911 operators. A thankless job.
Do they ever get to learn the outcome of medical calls touch them or does that end up being private info?
epiphunny t1_ja7jluj wrote
Thanks for the suggestion.
>Do they ever get to learn the outcome of medical calls touch them or does that end up being private info?
In certain situations. My son may have to testify in a trial, so he's able to follow that case. Another time, he got a Life Saver Award because he gave CPR instructions that resuscitated the individual in time for them to get to the hospital and live through their ordeal.
okcknight t1_ja0on7d wrote
Police Vacancy: %21 (157/755)
Police OT: 6.2 MM
Police Budget (2022): 97.8MM
Percentage OT to Budget: %6.3
——————————————————
Fire Vacancy: 1.5% (6/401)
Fire OT: 4.7MM
Fire Budget: 62MM
Percentage OT to Budget: %7.5
Something I found interesting: despite having a 1.5% vacancy rate, the fire department is paying %7.5 of its total budget in overtime. Meanwhile the police vacancy is 14 times greater and running at approximately 6.3% of their total budget, less than Fire percentage-wise. I wonder what the reason for that is. I would expect the fire OT numbers to be much lower considering their staffing.
choicebutts OP t1_ja0qgg2 wrote
Probably because there are up to four people in one piece of fire equipment and only one or two in a police car.
Also, the fire department gives full response to apartment and highrise calls and has to have the staff available.
okcknight t1_ja0sica wrote
Excuse my ignorance but what difference does that make? If four guys work on one truck, and one position is vacant, that means you’re paying the OT for one guy right? I’m confused
choicebutts OP t1_ja2ipar wrote
You need more guys to man a fire truck than a police car. You have to have X number of people available at all times to man these vehicles. You have to have X number of vehicles available, manned, every day.
Police don't have to have X number of people available every single day.
okcknight t1_ja3kdm0 wrote
That explanation still doesn’t make sense to me but whatever haha.
Also, the police department does have minimum staffing requirements per precinct per shift who need to be available to run the 911 calls. That is where all their OT comes from.
choicebutts OP t1_ja3mpst wrote
Okay, so your computations should include that variable, as well as the minimum staffing requirements for the fire department to get a more accurate picture of why there is more overtime in one department over the other.
Another thing to consider is that there are several law enforcement agencies in Richmond and only one fire department.
VCU Police man special events in the VCU area, for example. If VCU Police weren't there, manning that event would end up as overtime for Richmond Police. VCU Police, the Sheriff's Department, State Police, and Capitol Police all have arrest powers in Richmond.
okcknight t1_ja3utv4 wrote
I get it, but aren’t those needs reflected in the 400 staffing number? If six vacancies is resulting in this much overtime, maybe they need to raise that number. But I think the article is giving us a 2022 overtime number with 2023 vacancies, which are currently much lower than they were from what I understand.
GrumpyNewYorker t1_ja0xt1d wrote
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted for being inquisitive.
Are you looking at just the portion of the budget dedicated to salary for Fire and Police, or are you looking at the entire budgets for those departments? It’s not an apples to apples comparison between the two departments.
okcknight t1_ja13edw wrote
I was looking at the entire budget.
GrumpyNewYorker t1_ja13r8p wrote
Yeah, that’s not going to be a good enough metric. There’s too much variability in what it costs to run a fire department versus what it costs to run a police department. There should be an itemized budget somewhere. If you look at the portion dedicated solely to salaries, that’s a good start.
okcknight t1_ja14p6i wrote
Yea I’m sure there’s a good reason for it. I noticed the vast majority of both agencies expenditures were personnel costs so it was a bit confusing considering the disparity between staffing levels.
_on_the_chainwax_ t1_ja2sghi wrote
It is likely because that vacancy number only took effect in early January, when new recruits started. For all of last year, the number was much higher.
throwingutah t1_ja3a7t3 wrote
This is the answer. We haven't had single-digit vacancies for a very long time. We've been working mandatory overtime for a couple of years.
okcknight t1_ja3kfxf wrote
That actually makes sense, thanks.
kaisermilo t1_ja3mqkv wrote
Fire department works 24 hour shifts. Also, I don't know about rpd, but the fire department has built in overtime. If we didn't hire a single overtime position, we'd still be paying people "overtime" for 8 hours a pay period (this exact number has recently changed and I can't remember what it now is). However, the built in OT is factored into our salary. If starting pay is 51k, your hourly rate is set so that your straight pay plus built in over time comes out to 51k.
throwingutah t1_jaek2gs wrote
The built-in/FLSA overtime isn't counted the same as unscheduled overtime.
choicebutts OP t1_ja5bs5q wrote
Thank you.
Easy-Remote-8667 t1_ja2wxh6 wrote
Probably because fire personnel work 24 hour shifts compared to police working 8 hour shifts.
ILayWood12 t1_ja5uxjz wrote
Most police departments have patrol shifts that range from 11.5-12 hours.
Easy-Remote-8667 t1_ja5v3co wrote
RPD works 8 hour shifts.
ILayWood12 t1_ja64nq7 wrote
Not true
StayPuftMrshmalloMan t1_ja1fuqs wrote
The takeaway is, if you're short for rent you can probably engage in petty theft and probably not get caught
nartarf t1_ja1gvx3 wrote
The police don’t solve crimes very well. Most all types of reported crimes are below a 50% clearance rate. murders are around 60% Been that way a while. Some would say the also don’t really prevent crime either. So to recap… the police don’t stop, solve or prevent crime. Go ahead and steal from corporations they’re not people.
SwanOverSunshine t1_ja1v0s7 wrote
Before the pandemic/summer of 2020, we literally had the best murder close rate in US cities: https://www.nbc12.com/story/38684549/washington-post-study-richmond-has-highest-homicide-clearance-rate-of-us-cities/?outputType=amp
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Charlesinrichmond t1_ja1qgzz wrote
Soa breakdown in society is good. I seen you are effectively endorsing wage theft too, as long as a corporation steals from a corporation in the process
nartarf t1_ja3ghcd wrote
Wage theft by corporations accounts for more dollars than petty theft by “criminals”
Charlesinrichmond t1_ja4midq wrote
ok? But maybe both are bad? And if you normalize theft, you get more theft?
And if theft was just about economics, you wouldn't get wealthy corporations doing it. Some people are just bad people. We need to stop them from undermining society
BugggJuice t1_ja3ie2k wrote
called for a domestic violence dispute in my apartment complex a few months back. when the cops finally showed up they didn't want to see the video i had of a woman being chased by her partner and screaming for her life. the cops literally just took a leisurely stroll down my hallway and were shooting the shit, left within 2 minutes of arriving, didn't do a welfare check, then stood outside my building for half an hour laughing at god knows what. this was after i had to call twice to make sure they were still coming because i feared for this other woman's life
tldr: yeah, the cops don't show up when you call them anymore, and when you do call them, they don't do anything
retroracer33 t1_ja49il9 wrote
w while back Some dude like halfway t boned me on boulevard doing some crazy ass maneuver. He cut in front of me trying to make a left turn from the right lane and hit me and ran. I chased him for a minute then pulled over and called 911. I waited for like an hour and a half before I just went home. So I called them in the morning again, cause I needed an accident report and the cop that came fussed at me for not waiting. Annoyed the shit outta me. Especially since I really don't think any cop even ever showed up.
FlexRVA21984 t1_ja4kxj8 wrote
Weird how people hate on the cops and then get surprised when no one wants to be a cop. Lmfao
StonedBirdman t1_ja422d5 wrote
Oh you mean the richmond police department that launched tear gas into a peaceful protest 20 minutes before those protestors were told they had to disperse? That richmond police department?
AdministrationVast42 t1_ja57axa wrote
The police are busy busting every single person with more than 4 cannabis plants guys. It is VERY important work, leave them be. The shootings, murders, car accidents, NOTHING is more important than getting that devils lettuce and those dirty hippies that smoke it off the RVA streets. 🙄
Dramatic_Barracuda55 t1_ja4nu7g wrote
Defund the police!
Where are the police!
grayson771 t1_ja61a7h wrote
absolutely this. Even during the protests when they were screaming F the police. Something would happen and they literally yelled for help from the police. The hypocrisy is totally lost on them. You got what you wished for, now you cry about it. No one wants to be a cop because of all the hate that was spewed at them and you all wonder why no one comes when you call for help. Enjoy the fruits of your labor
Live-Yogurtcloset-51 t1_ja1s8ro wrote
I don’t see the problem. Isn’t this what Richmonders asked for?
choicebutts OP t1_ja2mhr4 wrote
Is that a sarcastic reference to "de-fund the police?" I don't recall any calls for legislation to reduce the police force.
fractalflatulence t1_ja34d67 wrote
>I don't recall
Not familiar with Princess Blanding's campaign platform?
choicebutts OP t1_ja3aji3 wrote
If you're going to make an argument, make an argument. I'm not going to play 20 questions.
fractalflatulence t1_ja7m3tl wrote
We literally had a local gubernatorial candidate (the sister of MDP) who ran on “reallocating police finding” among other things like ending qualified immunity...
“I don’t recall” is what crooks say when they don’t want to incriminate themselves… in this case you used it because you’re either ignorant or being deliberately obtuse although I suppose they aren’t mutually exclusive.
choicebutts OP t1_ja7qwhr wrote
Again, if you're going to make an argument, be clear about what you're arguing about.
I haven't heard of anyone named Princess Blanding and I'm not going to Google it because you're saying it as an obvious partisan dog whistle.
I can't discuss something that happened if I don't know what you're talking about.
I know there were people saying "defund the police," and I also know most people didn't take that literally or completely seriously. Who said what about it when went right past be because I knew it was another bullshit slogan meant to manipulate people's emotions.
fractalflatulence t1_ja7strc wrote
>I haven't heard of anyone named Princess Blanding and I'm not going to Google it because you're saying it as an obvious partisan dog whistle.
No, I'm not. Are you context averse?
The comment you initially replied to said
"... isn't this what richmond wanted?"
to which you replied
"I don't recall anyone calling for legislation to defund the police"
to which I replied
"not familiar with princess blanding's campaign platform?"
Princess Blanding is the sister of Marcus David Peters the man who was shot dead while naked by RPD when having a mental health episode. Lee Circle was renamed after him during the BLM protests in Richmond. Princess, ** a Richmond local**, RAN FOR GOVERNOR OF VIRGINIA and was exceedingly popular amongst the BLM/ACAB/Defund The Police movement because of her criminal justice reform platform.
So yes, this is kind of what [some of] Richmond wanted.
Don't project your own partisan bullshit onto me just because I'm informed enough, and honest enough, to not lie about the fact that there 100% were calls to "defund the police" among people campaigning for the highest levels of the city and state government
If you honestly didn't know that or don't know who princess blanding is and don't care to educate yourself because you think anyone who brings that up is blowing a partisan dog whistle than I think you are far more ignorant than I initially suspect and most likely the person with the brainwashed partison-ideology
choicebutts OP t1_ja8n2my wrote
I looked up Princess Blanding and remembered seeing something about her one time. I saw her campaign website and immediately dismissed her as unrealistic and I didn't take her candidacy seriously at all.
Which is why I couldn't recall her.
Which bill was put forth to defund the police?
[deleted] t1_ja2664x wrote
[deleted]
spintiff t1_ja44wcz wrote
I get the feeling you're not actually a part of this community. Go back to SLC.
choicebutts OP t1_ja5c38b wrote
WTF is SLC?
choicebutts OP t1_ja5dn5o wrote
Salt Lake City? Bwah hah hah hah hah! Yeah. The Fan in Salt Lake City. Famous area.
epiphunny t1_ja2ma47 wrote
One of my loved ones is a 911 dispatcher in Chesterfield, which is also 20% understaffed.
Did you know that emergency communications officers are sometimes classed as "clerical" employees? These folks handle a level of trauma that can lead to anxiety, depression, PTSD, you name it. But because of how the job is classed, they don't have certain benefits or staffing options, and it's harder to hire and retain talent.
The criteria for being hired are significant. Once hired, the attrition rate for training is high. Many classes only place a few in the center because so many drop out.
It's a good job for the right people: those with a service heart who want to help their neighbor, with a good training program, decent starting salary and benefits, and (in Chesterfield at least) a supportive work culture. But the OT is draining, and the schedule is difficult.
There's a bill called 911 SAVES Act at the federal level that would fix some of this. Another Virginia state bill is in review that would address some things.
Ultimately, if you want someone to answer when you're in crisis and call 911, please consider voting and advocating for infrastructure that supports the role.