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Cactuscouch757 t1_jdchy1y wrote

allegedly delivered; There is no real proof that this speech ever happened.

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lunar_unit t1_jdcj6zb wrote

There is ample historical commentary that says it did happen. But because it was written down 42 years later, what we now know as the speech, may not have been the actual speech that he gave.

>Over forty years after Patrick Henry delivered his speech and eighteen years after his death, biographer [William Wirt](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Wirt_(Attorney_General)) published a posthumous reconstruction of the speech in his 1817 work Sketches of the Life and Character of Patrick Henry.[2] This is the version of the speech as it is widely known today and was reconstructed based on the recollections of elderly witnesses many decades later. A scholarly debate persists among colonial historians as to what extent Wirt or others invented parts of the speech including its famous closing words.

>According to Edmund Randolph, the convention sat in profound silence for several minutes after Henry's speech ended. George Mason, who later drafted the Virginia Declaration of Rights, said that the audience's passions were not their own after Henry had addressed them.[7] [Thomas Marshall](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Marshall_(U.S._politician)) told his son John Marshall, who later became Chief Justice of the United States, that the speech was "one of the boldest, vehement, and animated pieces of eloquence that had ever been delivered."[7][8] Edward Carrington, listening by a window, was so affected by the speech that he requested to be buried there, and in "1810, he got his wish."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Give_me_liberty,_or_give_me_death!

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historyarch OP t1_jdcssxv wrote

Sure there is. There were witnesses. There were also other indirect pieces. For example, some Virginia militia who signed up after the speech wrote “Liberty or Death” on their hunting shirts. The speech was discussed indirectly and spoken about by many. One person was so inspired he asked to be buried where he stood to listen to the speech (outside a window of St. John’s Church)-- his wish was granted.

The real controversy is over the text. Henry did not keep copies of his speeches so his first biographer, William Wirt wrote to contemporaries to get their recollections.

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Cactuscouch757 t1_jddrc0q wrote

Ah, witness accounts; more reliable than old faithful.

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historyarch OP t1_jde8mxn wrote

You said the speech may not have occurred at all. If there were witnesses, the speech occurred. I acknowledged that there are questions about the actual text.

​

Also, witnesses are sometimes way off, but sometimes are very accurate. It is worth noting that Wirt's account of the Stamp Act Speech received by the same method turned out to be very accurate. It turns out the French sent a spy to America in 1765 to gauge the pulse of the colonists. He happened to be in Williamsburg and wrote down the text of the speech. This report was lost for over 150 years and found in the 1920s.

Maybe the Liberty or Death speech is flawed, but maybe another source will emerge that confirms what was actually said. William Wirt spent 12 years gathering evidence and writing the bio. He seems to have taken great pains to present the evidence faithfully. Other parts of his writing have proven accurate-- and he got some things wrong as happens in every bio.

Wirt was also a highly accomplished lawyer including arguing before the Supreme Court and is still America's longest serving attorney general. He's a credible writer.

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[deleted] t1_jdcu5ku wrote

[removed]

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rva-ModTeam t1_jdcytw0 wrote

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