People suck (Begin rant)

Submitted by CoffeePeddlerRVA t3_yg6i1y in rva

For 8 years, we have provided unhoused people a free cup of drip coffee and access to our restrooms. All we asked was that they not loiter/solicit customers and respect the space.

For 8 years we were able to provide this and manage the few individuals who couldn’t abide by these rules (mostly because they were mentally unwell).

This year, it has become untenable, with frequent destruction of the restrooms, needles being left and sometimes worse. Many of the un-housed themselves find the conditions left behind abhorrent but are unable to convince their peers to do better. Quite frankly, there are just too many people in this situation and it’s too massive for us to sustain. Our landlord is threatening us with eviction if we don’t solve this quickly.

We’ll be ending our generosity toward this community, knowing that it’s the fault of the few, but destructive enough to allow for no other path forward.

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Comments

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dreww4546 t1_iu75v2d wrote

Inconsiderate behavior is on the rise big time in all strata of society. But look at the negative role models we have had lately.

244

dougc84 t1_iu7zt52 wrote

100%. There have always been bad seeds in society, whether that comes to politics, civics, driving, or even general behavior, but damn if it isn't more noticeable in the last couple years.

55

Tstewmoneybags99 t1_iu8zxi4 wrote

Social media incentivizes the worst of us and gives them a pedestal. Instead of helping people in need you take out your phone and record a video of it and hope that it goes viral.

19

AlreadyShrugging t1_iu76qg2 wrote

This is like the fourth “inconsiderate jackass” post I’ve read today. Just existing in and of itself is tiring now.

I’m sorry it came to that.

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historical_tech t1_iu7m7l1 wrote

Hey, thank you for trying. Don’t feel guilty for changing based their behavior.

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carbonfiberx t1_iu7tijl wrote

Structural problems require structural solutions. I'm not gonna shame you for pulling back on your compassionate policy now that it's become unfeasible for you, but even that was a stop-gap.

Charity will not solve houselessness, or the multitude of other issues that afflict the unhoused. Richmond (like pretty much every other city in America) needs a comprehensive approach centering on housing-first.

For whatever it's worth, I hope those reading this recognize that point, rather than attributing this behavior to a simple moral failing and getting entrenched in resentment and dismissal of actual humans who exist day-to-day in some of the worst conditions imaginable in the developed world.

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Newyew22 t1_iu8fmz2 wrote

You’re 100% right on a few important points: homelessness says way more about larger society than the morality of the individuals who are experiencing it, and that about structural problems require structural solutions. But, I think it’s important to point out that Richmond does have a comprehensive approach to homelessness that prioritizes housing first. In fact, in a metropolitan area with pretty abysmal regional cooperation, homelessness is one area where the system works exceptionally well — so well that just last week, HUD just awarded the system an annual grant of $4.7M to address youth homelessness on top of its usual allocation.

The main driver of increasing homelessness here and elsewhere is the accelerating unavailability of affordable housing. In Virginia, it’s estimated there’s a shortage of 200,000 affordable units to meet the needs of its residents, so you can imagine the pressure that puts on systems meant to make homelessness “brief, rare, and non-recurring.” So, here are structural solutions I recommend advocating for: (1) Right to Counsel for people facing eviction. Most evictions here are pushed through by landlords uncontested, and right to counsel in other jurisdictions has slowed the number of evictions filed and executed, keeping people where they live. (2) At the Richmond City Council level, support the movement to assess affordable housing properties at a lower tax rate, so that affordable housing providers can continue developing new properties and supporting people with low incomes. (3) At the counties level, push for zoning changes that allow for denser development, including in some cases, more affordable housing being brought online. We can’t have a scalable solution to housing affordability one single family lot at a time. (4) Tell your state GA representatives you want increased allocation to the state’s affordable housing trust fund. This is the pot of state money that for- and non-profit developers draw from to build affordable housing, and the current annual budget line is $75M. Sounds good, but when, say, it costs ~$300,000 to bring online a single new unit of permanent supportive housing for people who’ve experienced chronic homelessness, you see how millions only get you so far. We should be talking billions in that trust fund.

In conclusion, Richmond’s homelessness services system does a truly amazing job, and it’s our responsibility to come alongside them with structural solutions that help reduce the volume of clientele they serve to more reasonable levels

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Charlesinrichmond t1_iu9wu8u wrote

what homeless housing does the funding provide? I know a homeless woman who could use it.

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Newyew22 t1_iua0833 wrote

Broadly speaking, the funding provides support for the programming and operations of organizations that provide shelter and supportive housing.

For people who are currently experiencing homelessness or within three days of losing their housing, they can enter with the system — though not necessarily a shelter — through the Housing Crisis Line at 804-972-0813. If not within three days of becoming homeless but still struggling, the Housing Resource Line is the one, at 804-422-5061. Both lines are experiencing more call volume than ever before, but they’re staffed by outstanding people working in coordinated ways on behalf of the system.

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Charlesinrichmond t1_iua67nu wrote

yeah, she's been in touch but no luck, still only sleeping indoors when I give her money for a hotel. She's not a perfect person, but she's a good person

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Newyew22 t1_iuao13i wrote

I’m so sorry to hear this about your acquaintance; I know it can be really tough to see people struggle this way.

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Charlesinrichmond t1_iudrurc wrote

not so much an aquaintance, more a homeless woman who has become kind of my charity. I dunno, maybe that makes her an aquaintance.

She'd really benefit from an SRO.

2

Newyew22 t1_iudt93f wrote

If she’s been entered into the database through an outreach worker or the phone number I mentioned above, unfortunately, it’s a bit of a waiting game. Clients are prioritized for movement into shelter openings according to their relative likelihood to die without shelter. It’s a macabre way of prioritizing, but it’s more equitable than taking the next number up.

1

RefrigeratorRater t1_iu8gsdv wrote

What would a housing-first approach look like and how does it differ from present day? I’m not familiar with this stuff but am curious.

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nitsual912 t1_iu8o0h8 wrote

Essentially it means low barrier to entry - a person who has been chronically houseless, who may have ongoing substance abuse or mental illness concerns, gets to access housing before they have to be completely sober or fully in treatment and stable (like holding down a full time job, or having completed all of the paperwork to obtain disability).
Give them a roof over their head, in the form of permanent supportive housing, and the costs to the system overall go down — hospitals, jails, etc. It can be controversial because of society’s view that people should have to “earn” certain things, but it’s effective. There’s now decades of published research on it. There’s just not enough political will to support enough of it.

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Newyew22 t1_iu8pbyd wrote

Great summary of the housing first philosophy. Permanent supportive housing is where the rubber meets the road for many people who experience chronic homelessness, and as you say, there’s little political will to deal with the real cost of providing these housing services at scale.

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Charlesinrichmond t1_iu9wxe3 wrote

we need to bring SROs back. They were ugly for a reason, but they served a needed role

0

Worldwidewitu t1_iu7x69b wrote

The houseless population as I’ve noticed has increased SIGNIFICANTLY in the past two years, likely thanks to the pandemic/raised cost of living/etc. I have a feeling I know what place this is based on observation and having to delegate similar challenges at my old job. Hang in there. When I didn’t have a home, I always went to coffee shops because they were generally full of kind people who let me buy one thing and hang out all day. Be firm but polite and when you have to boot someone, be sure to let those utilizing the space know this isn’t your decision, and you’re doing your best. Offer alternative resources, if possible. Being a humanitarian requires some delegation and isn’t always the easiest path, and landlords aren’t known for their empathy.

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argmax t1_iu8buw5 wrote

A quick language question: How is houseless different from homeless?

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lycosid t1_iu8is1f wrote

Twofold:

  1. A house is a house. It’s got walls and minimum standards of livability under the law. A car or a tent can be a home, but not a house.

  2. Home can have a value connotation (think “home is where the heart is”) that advocates are trying to avoid by using the more neutral term.

Functionally, whether someone uses homeless or houseless they are talking about the exact same thing and everybody knows what they’re talking about, so it doesn’t really matter which you use unless you’re trying to be very specific.

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Worldwidewitu t1_iu7xgoq wrote

Also, sometimes you gotta be a dick, and that sucks but if it serves as a preventive measure for destruction than so it goes. My rule is to never forget you’re talking to a person

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rvafun100 t1_iu7f2a6 wrote

Is it a bunch of ‘new’ homeless or people you know?

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CoffeePeddlerRVA OP t1_iu7g122 wrote

It’s both. There are people we have known for years and now dozens of new people who are new to us over the last year. Those who have been around a while aren’t the issue, it’s the new people. There are simply too many of them these days for us to get to know them the way we have in the past, and they’re causing way more damage issues than we’ve ever seen.

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ragingrandyrivers t1_iu81zp3 wrote

Maybe instead of making it open you could close off to only helping the homeless people you know, make it more of a friends only thing

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dreww4546 t1_iu7bll9 wrote

We all have bad days and my natural state is semi grumpy, but we should all try to be nice, or at least civil I'm our daily journeys.

Otherwise we will drown in a sea of assholeness

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Trouble__Bound t1_iu85ihz wrote

humans are selfish scum and will fuck your life up if it saves them a couple pennies or seconds or protects their massively inflated ego.

spare no time or effort on this garbage species, they damn sure won't do it for you

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WorldsBestPapa t1_iu9gzub wrote

Cringe.

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Trouble__Bound t1_iub1z6h wrote

yeah but slightly less so than people who say 'cringe'

−1

WorldsBestPapa t1_iub243u wrote

Just got you to say cringe . Checkmate .

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Trouble__Bound t1_iucknmu wrote

.....thank you for providing me and any unfortunate passerby to this meaningless thread a neat little example of just how clever and entertaining humans can be, truly a monstrous display of humor and intellect

contrary to evidence provided in this post however i suspect that you are old enough to vote so your naivete, though unsurprising, is more than frustrating

keep kidding yourself though; the shit-eating grin you wear to support your illusion of happiness is telling adorable

0

Consol-Coder t1_iucko5s wrote

“Happiness isn’t an outside job, it’s an inside job.”

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Trouble__Bound t1_iucl1ay wrote

i am under no obligation to be happy or even content with my unsolicited existence

−1

choicebutts t1_iu7yl39 wrote

What business is this?

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pchnboo t1_iua4g43 wrote

I don’t know but it could be The Lab. There is a fair number of local unhoused that I see there in the a.m. Nice folks and treat everyone with the same level of dignity.

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choicebutts t1_iub07k7 wrote

Ah, okay. I thought it was that little place on the other side of Belvidere near the Rite Aid.

1

okcknight t1_iu84466 wrote

Don’t beat yourself up. You’ve done more than most.

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againer t1_iu90hos wrote

We need to start taxing churches and put that money towards social programs that work.

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Streamweaver66 t1_iu970zb wrote

Not sure how you're going to approach the policy. You could get with an organization like Caritas, Homeward, HomeAgain, or Commonwealth Catholic Charities and get some advice, or alternatively get a list of resources for services to put somewhere. It may be many wont use those services, but it could help those that do. Just a recommendation, sounds like you tried to do the right thing but ended up in a tough spot. I'm sorry that happened.

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Leaveittoybot t1_iu9bpaq wrote

Unfortunately the saying is too true: No good deed goes unpunished.

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Grizlatron t1_iu8n9n1 wrote

It sucks, but when someone is in a desperate situation like that sometimes you can't give them an inch because they'll grab a mile. If you don't have a mile to give you have to balance your own health and safety and with the human impulse to reach out and help.

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zoeypantalones t1_iuavlwm wrote

I don’t have a whole solution, but RE: needles—is it possible for you to work with a program in the area for you all to secure a bio hazard container to leave in the bathrooms, so people can dispose of their needles? I don’t want to make it seem like I’m saying you should encourage them using in your bathroom, but maybe with it you could include signage about needle exchange programs (I think Health Bridage has one) or options for rehabilitation?

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CoffeePeddlerRVA OP t1_iuawp79 wrote

We’re done serving them, so won’t be relevant anymore. Put up signage today and all the conversations we had with them went well (most of them conveyed surprise that we’ve let it go this long, thought we would have shut it down 6 months ago. Also not looking to make people more comfortable shooting up in our space.

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pomaj46809 t1_iu8soiv wrote

It's a good thing what you've been doing, but it's important to know that the problems you're having are why a lot of people don't help and don't want people doing things that attract homeless people to an area.

1

ZephyrInfernum t1_iu8nib1 wrote

Are they soliciting customers on the private property of the business? Or from a sidewalk/public space?

0

Trouble__Bound t1_iu8qoar wrote

give them an inch and they'll take a mile,

this goes for all homosapiens not just the unhoused

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rraak t1_iu8xofu wrote

People have gotten simply horrible in recent time. I just can't stand interacting with the general public because every time leads to at least one confrontation. Shutting down for a while is a good idea. If there are individuals you know, keep helping them out, but my goodness people suck lately.

0

MegBeth8 t1_iu9kewr wrote

Would it be possible to begin a key system for the restroom access? Adds a sense of accountability to users. And from a public heath perspective, i do not encourage drug use, but providing a sharps container would hopefully decrease exposure to potentially hazardous needles to patrons and staff.

0

blackeyedsusan25 t1_iu8hmhq wrote

Homeless people are generally in big-time survival mode and don't have the mental bandwidth to worry about etiquette. You're doing good work :)

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designatedthrowawayy t1_iubb0rr wrote

To be fair, it's not just unhoused people that cause destruction and do drugs.

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CoffeePeddlerRVA OP t1_iubka9w wrote

Actually, it is just them in our coffee shop

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designatedthrowawayy t1_iubmcq8 wrote

Do you have proof it's only them? I'm sure they aren't the only ones that use your bathroom. But to each their own I suppose. My shop had to close their bathroom because a customer was doing meth in it.

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CoffeePeddlerRVA OP t1_iubmrcq wrote

Yes, they tell us who is doing it.

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designatedthrowawayy t1_iubn754 wrote

Who is they? Also how do you know it's just those people? Or if you know who, why not ban those people?

Eta: to be clear, this isn't an accusation.

−3

combinera t1_iu8ka8h wrote

It’s not so much people, than the drugs, which have gotten purer, stronger, more plentiful, and soul-crushing.

−3

toocapak t1_iu93j68 wrote

I mean to be frank, im thats such a massive violation of the lease. I really dont think theres a single lease in Richmond that would permit that. Was this in a commercial building?

I know your trying to do good, but you’re also effectively screwing over your property manager and landlord, if you care. They have 100% grounds to evict you.

−4

verbalddos t1_iu7izyy wrote

Sorry to hear that. Please don't give up on the whole unhoused population, many of them are really great people just on the wrong side of a coin flip. There are a number of known people in the general population that cause issues, as well as some people that can not afford their meds or don't take them. But as a whole the community seems to police its self fairly well.

I think that you are roughly a half a mile away from my local, but please make an exception for:
"Highstreet"
Brittany
John

Mathew

Micheal

"Soulman"

they are all great people that the community should support.

−17

CoffeePeddlerRVA OP t1_iu7jte9 wrote

We have tried, but cannot afford to lose our business over it. My landlord is done with this and cannot have the issues which they bring in.

Maybe once it settles out we can issue gift cards to those whom we know best and have shown respect for the space. If you’d like, you could come in and pick them up for the folks you know.

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opienandm t1_iu7l7cg wrote

How is one to determine the good vs the bad?

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freakame t1_iu93wjj wrote

Talk to them. Folks out there know who each other are and the ones that are trouble.

1

opienandm t1_iu9i4km wrote

The guy is a business owner trying to make a living, not a trained and paid social worker. That’s not a reasonable expectation given the circumstances.

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freakame t1_iua6k6v wrote

I'm just replying to you. That is how you find out about people, you talk to them and talk to others about them.

1

dj1200techniques t1_iu8nvu7 wrote

You know which people suck more? Virtue signalers that call the homeless “unhoused people”

−20

invariantGloaming t1_iu8y8nj wrote

you're the type of dude to still use the R-word because rick and morty says it's okay

0

dj1200techniques t1_iu91jx3 wrote

Who TF is Rick and Morty ?

−8

___zero__cool___ t1_iu9thxd wrote

The two dudes who’ve nodded off and shit themselves in the bathroom after flushing their cooking cap down the toilet apparently.

0

dj1200techniques t1_iua04t9 wrote

I used to work at a school in Harlem about a block away from a clinic. Them boys would be out there BENT….. but would never fall down. Truly amazing.

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Jhonny30 t1_iu7d0k4 wrote

Instead or down votes why not actually talk about the situation and gain some feed back about it? Like really if you were just here to complain there is no reason to just stop providing this service tho those you should not need to and your problem is no longer a problem.

−52

Jhonny30 t1_iu764i4 wrote

Just saying you do know it is legal in Richmond to take all of those dirty needles and exchange them for clean ones right? It may be unsightly but if you also for free could provide clean needles in place of the dirty ones at least you would be helping out the community that you are saying that you cater towards. If you have been doing this for people on the street for 8 years as you say many times I am sorry but shouldn't you know how some people are not all but some?

−115

CoffeePeddlerRVA OP t1_iu77lv4 wrote

First, we’re not catering to the unhoused, they are simply part of the community within which we operate. We’re not here to run a needle-exchange.

Regarding ‘knowing’ them, there are too many new faces each day of late. We’ve never seen this many unhoused people. From what they tell us, Richmond is a destination for them because rural municipalities ship them here, knowing there are more resources for them. They also independently seek Richmond out for the same reasons.

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Jhonny30 t1_iu7b9k7 wrote

Ok I am not trying to say you are doing anything wrong it is your place and you have complete rights to do whatever you would like. However you say in the original post you cater to the unhoused they say you do not cater to them that they are part of the "community within which we operate" if that is the case why not just refuse them access? I understand you are trying to be nice but if you really wanted to you could just refuse correct? Why post here if you were not wanting to have an open discussion on the situation at hand?

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J4663rw0ck t1_iu798ou wrote

You would ask a random business to deal with physical and biohazard risk of collecting used needles?

Needle exchanges can have a place, but it is most certainly not a random business not specifically set up to facilitate that kind of service.

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Jhonny30 t1_iu7ana3 wrote

I would never ask anything of the sort but if this even is a business after 8 years having this niceness to the community why complain? They could just as easily stop what they are doing and that would be there right for people taking advantage of them. I am not saying that they should or should not collect needles I just thought if they want to continue doing this they would be able to help those that are leaving dirty needles with another free refugee (like a bathroom) that would be a help to the community. They would already have to collect biohazard materials ie. Dirty needles so why not turn it into a positive?

−35

FARTBOSS420 t1_iu7m9at wrote

Their* right. Mofo.

>I am not saying that they should or should not collect needles I just thought if they want to continue doing this they would be able to help those that are leaving dirty needles with another free refugee (like a bathroom) that would be a help to the community.

Does this sentence mean...? Like... You're saying... If OP keeps collecting dirty needles in their bathroom instead of them ending up on the street, that's the positive? OP had a good thing going for 8 years then it went to shit so they made a post.

Also who complain to who? Eh. OP sees the not-so-permantently sheltered being less appreciative of the good natured as another brick in our wall of anger and desperation increasing the last few years. They vented about that. Their vent post got upvotes. You could easily stop what you're doing, which I believe is prob smoking mids and drinking box wine straight out the bag. Hopefully

6

Jhonny30 t1_iu7nd4j wrote

Lol thank you sorry my English sucks.

Not at all I was just giving a different approach to the situation Richmond is one of many places that does clean needle exchange I thought it was aa good option for those that apparently trust there to do what they need to do I would rather people have a safe place than no place. But that is not up to me it is up to the owner just my opinion on the matter

I ment complaining in general? If your going to help help thos you can if not do not I am not sure why that is a hard concept? I appreciate them venting this is their opinion of there situation but am I not allowed to give my own feed back? You can like it or you can not that is up to you either is acceptable.

And no I would never stop giving my opinion. But just to let you know I do not smoke and do not like wine I am not a suburban mom lol

2

WorldsBestPapa t1_iu9hdko wrote

Free needle exchanges have failed in every city they operate in. There are more needles on the streets of NYC and San Fran than there were in the past. It’s just virtue signaling .

−1

Jhonny30 t1_iu7676c wrote

But also yes I agree in general people do suck lol

−6

___zero__cool___ t1_iu74bqi wrote

Sure, the homeless junkies leaving needles and shit in your bathroom are definitely here on Reddit reading your post. Posting to Reddit is a pretty unnecessary step between typing this up, printing it out, and taping it to your door.

−142

CoffeePeddlerRVA OP t1_iu74k0p wrote

Uuhh, I don’t expect them to read this (but they do have phones). The decision is made, the change takes place immediately. Just pissed that some in this community would ruin it when we’ve been able to make this work for the last 8 years.

80

theguru1974 t1_iu93qbf wrote

I appreciate your post, it sparked a discussion that was actually pretty informative. It's easy for some of us fortunate ones to forget what others are going through sometimes. Out of sight, out of mind.

3

___zero__cool___ t1_iu7d5ke wrote

Do you bro, I don’t give a fuck what you do and I’m not trying to say whether you’re right or wrong. I’m asking why you needed to announce to this subreddit that you’re closing your bathroom to unhoused people? Tomorrow morning I’m giving cash to cover a coffee to the first homeless dude that tells me he wants to shoot up in your bathroom. I guess you can explain to the VDH why you’re refusing a paying customer use of a bathroom at that point, idk.

−106

augie_wartooth t1_iu7embd wrote

Are you all right?

42

wagonboss t1_iu7fpkf wrote

Doesn’t appear to be. He’s here for cat posts I guess. Everything else is a waste of his time

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___zero__cool___ t1_iu7iudm wrote

Cat posts? No idea what that’s supposed mean. I’m here because this asinine post is just as pandering and ridiculous as that FB rant from that other coffee lunatic about how his blood pressure was spiked because internet people called him out for his public Roe v Wade hot take.

We’ve got a looming potential recession 2.0, rising inequality, the growing inability of people to pay rent, this shit is only going to get worse. OP could have come in here framing their post in a way that promoted discussion on the topic, instead they framed it in this weird way that reads like it’s begging for both pity and praise at the same time.

All they had to do was post a sign on their door that said “Restrooms for paying customers only”, or “No Public Restrooms”.

−53

fresh__hell t1_iu7q65c wrote

lets get another paragraph about why u don’t care

33

Arviay t1_iu7ufnq wrote

Eh, say it again next week and you’ll get 150 upvotes

−12

___zero__cool___ t1_iu7fkca wrote

Look. I can’t keep interacting with people on Reddit. I could just stop what I’m doing, but I have a compulsion to call attention to it even though it doesn’t impact anyone that will read it. I really just want people to sympathize with me and upvote my post. People used to have normal opinions, but they’ve all gotten to be too much the past few years. They just vomit whatever they’re thinking out their brains and on to their keyboards. It’s so gross, even other Redditors are getting repulsed by the pandering, but they can’t keep the worst of them in check. I’ve been commenting here for 8 years, but my ISP is going to cancel my service if I don’t figure out a solution. So no, I’m not alright. I just can’t do it anymore. It’s untenable.

−20

FARTBOSS420 t1_iu7k6r4 wrote

>They just vomit whatever they’re thinking out their brains and on to their keyboards.

Again you said:

>"They just vomit whatever they’re thinking out their brains and on to their keyboards."

...broadly gestures at your comments

41

___zero__cool___ t1_iu9d5iz wrote

Bro I’m just me, I can get coked to and type whatever I want, I’ll just catch downvotes. I’m not up in here posting some vague corporate public statement about bathroom policy, looking for validation for helping homeless people for the past 8 years while also announcing I’m cancelling that policy.

1

Karmasmatik t1_iu7p1er wrote

> I don’t give a fuck what you do

Absolutely everything you’ve written is evidence to the contrary 🙄

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___zero__cool___ t1_iu9cko2 wrote

*I don’t give a fuck what you do about your bathroom policies, but your announcement of said policies on Reddit is fucking dumb.

−1

adam0928 t1_iu74o30 wrote

Username checks out.

51

___zero__cool___ t1_iu7cllq wrote

Mess with the best, die like the rest.

Edit - There is no right or wrong, only fun and boring.

Edit2 - Hack the Planet! I guess no one saw Hackers. Oh well. Brb need to go shoo away all these coffee slingers from my prime shoot up and shit in the street spots.

−26

PleaseBelieve_ t1_iu7gwfi wrote

We've all seen hackers you asshole!

19

___zero__cool___ t1_iu7j6js wrote

Don’t call me an asshole, it’s not my fault. My parents missed Woodstock, and I’ve just been making up for it ever since.

−10

adam0928 t1_iu89efm wrote

I recognized your username, I'm old enough to remember Angelina's first movie.

2