Comments
Charlesinrichmond t1_iudcu6z wrote
ok I laughed out loud. I kind of like the idea of moving a confederate around to all the bad intersections.
But they still haven't fixed some of the ex confederate intersections so I wouldn't hold out hope.
Fan_Rat t1_iuexn8p wrote
Came across a T-D article from the mid-1960s that discussed moving the statue in the name of traffic safety.
BabyBat07 t1_iudn0ih wrote
Good, maybe now that intersection will be less of a shitshow and they’ll finally open up the 64 west ramp again
VillageIdiotsAgent t1_iufsff1 wrote
What are they doing with that? They closed and then haven’t touched it as far as I can tell
chasetwisters t1_iufxaji wrote
They're rehabing the bridge the ramp ties to.
sleevieb OP t1_iudqeu9 wrote
#The South Will Fall Again
TheFencingCoach t1_iucxk6e wrote
Bye Feleecia
MazeppaPZ t1_iud3k66 wrote
OK, can we now rename Fort AP Hill?
Lsufaninva t1_iud4k0p wrote
Soon to be known as Ft Walker,named for Mary Walker
Charlesinrichmond t1_iudbrrx wrote
we really should. The fact the US army has Forts named after confederates has always boggled my mind. What's next, Fort Ho Chi Minh?
RickVanSticks t1_iudejlu wrote
The Army has renamed all its bases named after confederate generals. They’re working now changing all the signs and things
Charlesinrichmond t1_iudsgg7 wrote
that's great.
[deleted] t1_iufxm2g wrote
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YellowOrange t1_iue71iy wrote
There was a commission created to rename anything within the DoD that honored the CSA, check out https://www.thenamingcommission.gov/home for the full report.
In Virgina:
- Ft. AP Hill is becoming Ft. Walker
- Ft. Lee is becoming Ft. Gregg-Adams
- Ft. Picket is becoming Ft. Barfoot
MazeppaPZ t1_iueeu4v wrote
This is surprisingly interesting reading!
[deleted] t1_iueefoj wrote
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[deleted] t1_iufp8xw wrote
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blackeyedsusan25 t1_iuczsnl wrote
Besides correcting the offensive optics, what does removing statues expect to accomplish for the Richmond black community? (Serious question). More helpful than downvoting is substantive thought around this issue. Thanks!
GrandmaPoses t1_iud3gm7 wrote
You’re mistaken that it’s just for the black community. It should be looked at as a correction for the city of Richmond as a whole. In that sense, it’s for the good of the entire community to project that we’re moving away from celebrating the evils of the past or - just as bad - letting these monuments hang around simply because “they’ve always been there” or “what does removing them change?”
Sometimes when you fuck up, it costs money just to get back to zero.
nilsrva t1_iud3h7e wrote
It is not a positive so much as the removal of a negative.
2054 t1_iud1fdl wrote
Even if it was just correcting offensive optics, isn't that enough? The pros far outweigh the cons to me. Upvoted for an honest question, for what it's worth.
invariantGloaming t1_iud16dh wrote
The Confederates fought specifically to preserve slavery. Slavery was, in this case, done to black people. Black people live in Richmond. Seeing statues praising those who enslaved your ancestors and people is, gently put, rather uncomfortable.
Hope this helps.
hiddenrealism t1_iud5dr3 wrote
George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Madison, Monroe etc..
Presidents owned slaves also. Do we delete them from our history books, take down their monuments also?
Coma_Potion t1_iudcb95 wrote
What do you actually stand to lose if we teach that the founders were fallible and flawed individuals? Your ability to idolize mere men as supermen? I don’t get it, they were often quite literally the local aristocrats living at the top of the hill.
Why the impulse towards rote idolatry? It’s good to you to have a dearth of nuanced understanding? You can criticize the country and still love it, it’s willful simple-mindedness to say otherwise
jennbo t1_iudall7 wrote
I think so. We have glorified and deified people to the extent that we are unable to learn actual history about them. No historical figure should be off-limits to criticism, and I find it strange that so people are offended by criticism of people who aren’t alive, who they never met. So offended by reality and education.
Regardless, there’s a difference between people who owned slaves (kind of, anyway) and people who were willing to die themselves and leave the country over their right to continue a practice that was being made illegal worldwide, that was being heavily debated. By time the Civil War rolled around, abolitionism was a mainstream ethical movement and frankly, only really unethical people (or really rich people) were still promoting it and rounding up support for their cause by saying “the north wants to take away your rights.”
sunlightdrop t1_iudhyu6 wrote
I mean maybe, if conservatives weren't constantly fighting against teaching children the actual racial history of these historical figures
justbecauseiluvthis t1_iud7dnw wrote
Absolutely
George ripped enslaved people's teeth out of their mouth for his own dentures.
Thomas raped his enslaved people
individual issues, I'm sure we could fill books
xdisappointing t1_iudewgu wrote
ShOuLd We CoNdEmN aLl BaD pEoPlE?!
WhiteLightningLuna t1_iudhy1i wrote
Let’s not pretend there are stark differences between these characters, primarily the fact that the founding fathers didn’t wage a war with the primary and singular intention of maintaining slavery, not only making them slavers, but traitors as well.
The founding fathers were slavers. This should be highlighted in their histories, the same as their positive achievements and impacts on our history.
Treat confederate icons like Hitler. Teach and condemn dont idolize
GrandmaPoses t1_iudlst5 wrote
Stop conflating the removal of statues with removal from history books. This is the conservative line that by removing statues we are “deleting history”. This is a false equivalency. Statues like these are not history lessons, they are celebrations of historical figures. And no, we do not want to celebrate these individuals.
mywar79 t1_iueiosg wrote
What about the erasure of Dwayne Camacho? Just because he plied his trade in the squared circle and parlayed his generational talent at the grunt and graps game into the presidency he's relegated to the dustbin of history.
Charlesinrichmond t1_iudca2m wrote
There is a big difference. The confederates ONLY thing was enslaving blacks. Not like the founding fathers, for whom it was a blot on very positive records.
jennbo t1_iud9yx4 wrote
I think it’s problematic that so many people frame this as something only for the Black community rather than just simply being about the fact that we don’t need to honor people who fought to leave the USA over the right to own other human beings. The confederacy were not the good guys. Too many Americans— white Americans, even — glorify them because we’ve tried to honor “both sides.” Nobody in Europe felt a need to honor Nazis after WWII, or make history seem fairer to the concept of antisemitism. America never should have felt the need to memorialize these people in the first place, and they only did so at the beginning of the 20th century as a way to encourage segregation.
Stop making this a black vs. white thing. All people have been done a great disservice by acting we should memorialize any aspect of the Confederacy, and act like there’s some sort of “alternate history” here. People are now being spooked just learning about the realities of American chattel slavery and colonization among Native Americans and call learning that accurate history “critical race theory” even though it’s… not.
ohihaveasubscription t1_iuda0ic wrote
Brook/Laburnum is one of the deadliest intersections in the city and it's entirely because of the statue. It's good for everyone except confederate loyalists.
WontArnett t1_iud44zv wrote
Removing a statue of a terrible person that nobody wants to see.
justbecauseiluvthis t1_iud7let wrote
removing a statue nobody wants to take a left hand turn at
hiddenrealism t1_iud5nxs wrote
Like George Washington? He had plenty of slaves.
WontArnett t1_iud5tyg wrote
Let’s remove the domestic terrorists first.
xdisappointing t1_iudf5oj wrote
Didn’t you learn the last time, YES
sleevieb OP t1_iudq5u4 wrote
He was the largest Slavs owner and richest man in America.
FoHo21 t1_iufzmkh wrote
Damn, he had eastern Europeans working for him too?
sleevieb OP t1_iudqdf6 wrote
It signals that the will of the people can not be denied and that efficacy of direct action.
It shows that no institution is sacred or safe from destructions.
It shows that the south will fall again.
jael-oh-el t1_iudwrht wrote
I'm all for taking down the monuments and fixing the messed up things that are weird relics from the past, but I don't think saying the south will fall again is as clever as you think it is.
There are plenty of people who live in the south who aren't racist pieces of shit. We all live here. No one has tried to leave the union and form a new confederacy (lately, lol).
Idk, just sounds gross. There are more people living here now that I want good things for. I don't want society to crumble and fall just because it's southern, but that's just me. I don't think the answer is more snark and negativity, but do you.
sleevieb OP t1_iue2pte wrote
What are “the messed up things that are weird relics from the past”?
There were plenty of abolitionists here in the 1860s and freedom fighters in the 1960s. Schools are more segregated now than they were in the 1950s.
A government that does not reflect the people’s will is tyranical and illegitimate. The society will remove it if it does not acquiesces. I think the answer is legalizing housing, annexation, having a representative and democratic government.
What do you think the solution is?
jael-oh-el t1_iuec19x wrote
Confederate monuments, streets/buildings/parks/places/colleges/etc named after problematic historical figures that shouldn't be celebrated. Stuff like that.
I don't disagree that we have problems. It's not specific to the south though. If there were a simple solution, someone would have implemented it already.
I do know that you won't win anyone to your side or convince anyone with snarkiness or negativity though. 🤷🏻♀️
sleevieb OP t1_iuepyzc wrote
Guess I'll just move two counties away and tell myself it is too complicated to fix and that calling out the powers at be for being corrupt, trynical, and antithetical to the peoples wants or needs. If that is snarky than so be it.
jael-oh-el t1_iug2xnh wrote
You sound like a nightmare to deal with.
ValidGarry t1_iuecpsb wrote
Conversely, what would be the value in doing anything else if the city still had statues honoring dead Confederates across the city?
It's all important and all necessary.
Charlesinrichmond t1_iudc2h5 wrote
It won't accomplish anything for the black community. (except improve traffic and fewer accidents at that horrible intersection) Ironically, it does improve our marketing to people who want to move here, which will probably result in people moving here.
Some would say more immigrants from the northeast and california will help make Richmond a better place. I certainly think that. But some will say it will cause gentrification and force black people out of the city. This is probably also true
But practically speaking, taking down the other statues and leaving AP hill is silly. We should be taking down AP Hill
Chad_Big_C0ck t1_iud1p38 wrote
Absolutely nothing, it's just so white liberals can feel good, similar to terms like Latinx.
Taking money used for statue removal (at least $1.8 million plus attorney costs to fight in court over some of them) and using it for scholarships to send poor black graduates otherwise stuck in the poverty cycle to community college/4 year college. 1.8 million at $158/credit (current J Sarg cost), that would be 11k credit hours or 189 associates degrees (60 credit hours/degree), if we covered the whole tuition.
jodyhighrola t1_iud3w3v wrote
>just so white liberals can feel good
Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having read this. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Chad_Big_C0ck t1_iud5xyi wrote
Right, because Richmond's white voter block has voted in so many great things for black people over the past decade. We've now got better schools, graduation rates, lower income gap disparity, people escaping poverty. Oh right, none of these things happened. But we have taken down totally defaced and ignored statues and stopped a casino.
jennbo t1_iudaydm wrote
So since you’re so concerned about education, I assume you’re in full support of student loan forgiveness and would advocate taxing the rich to be able to send historically underserved people to college? Btw, community college is already free in Virginia if you make under a certain amount. Unless Youngkin does away with the program.
Chad_Big_C0ck t1_iuegmbf wrote
Yes
Is this supposed to be some sort of gotcha?
jennbo t1_iugf4xl wrote
Glad to hear it ¯_(ツ)_/¯
invariantGloaming t1_iud2die wrote
Individually paying for <200 black kids to go to college doesn't solve systemic oppression or even make a dent in the black population's troubles in Richmond ALONE. At least removing the statues is a step toward delegitimizing the bullshit Lost Cause narrative of the Confederacy. Paying on the individual level doesn't do anything for the collective, nor the systemic issues at large.
Edit: to the surprise of all, this dude was suspended.
Chad_Big_C0ck t1_iud32zp wrote
Systematic oppression is not being able to afford higher education to get a better job because your parents also couldn't afford higher education to get a better job.
Say we pay half of their tuition. That's 400 kids. Now add in the lawyer/court costs of fighting over the statues for years now. Who knows what that costs, possibly millions more, but I'll say at least 500 kids.
That's 500 people who now get better jobs and can afford to send their children to higher education. This gradually breaks the cycle.
Say you grew up barely being able to afford food. What is going matter more in your life. A better 40 year career or taking down a statue that nobody paid any mind to in a city that has voted blue for decades.
jennbo t1_iudweqc wrote
Comrade, if you are worried about these issues and feel the neoliberals have failed to address them, I have an entirely new system of politics I'd like to introduce to you! A way we can ensure every American has access to food, healthcare, education, and shelter. Solidarity forever!
chillbro_baggins91 t1_iue0r92 wrote
Vom
jennbo t1_iued2t9 wrote
Oh, I see! You only value caring about marginalized people when it comes to “owning the libs” as an abstract concept to argue with people on Reddit, but don’t support any actual policies or beliefs that would legitimately help them in the ways OP and his huge cock have described here. A conservative having sincere concern for his fellow man? Lo, I have been so naive. What a shock!
[deleted] t1_iud6a43 wrote
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jennbo t1_iudbs7v wrote
Why honor Confederate history over that of say, Mary Bowser and Elizabeth Van Lew? I bet dollars to donuts you have no idea who those people are. Richmonders! Wonder why you care so much about people who believed in the ethics of chattel slavery but most people don’t even know those names? gee, it’s almost like people publicly supporting racism and a wrong view of “history” have an agenda when they chose who gets statues in the middle of city vs. who gets relegated to one sentence (if that) in history books, the ones you’re trying so hard to change to avoid learning actual American history. Like how about the people who lived here thousands of years before we colonized, stole their land? Where are their statues? Where’s their presence at all? Oh that’s right — annihilated.
Sorry the celebration of slavery is something you’ll have to do in private now instead of watching the city do it.
They don’t have Nazi statues in Germany.
Sailinger t1_iudnnbh wrote
A big Van Lew Monument in Church Hill would be awesome!
FoHo21 t1_iug1c9q wrote
>They don’t have Nazi statues in Germany.
They just name their largest military bases after them
>!I know Rommel wasn't technically a member of the Nazi party, but he was their top military commander.!<
[deleted] t1_iuea3ni wrote
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xdisappointing t1_iudfmmk wrote
Every time I see someone call someone a snowflake it’s usually after they have complained over something silly, the irony here is you’re the snowflake that can’t move on.
Your team lost snowflake get over it.
Strattocatter t1_iuddfza wrote
The south lost, seems like you're the one who needs to get over it.
Veratha t1_iudrh4q wrote
Man accuses others of being snowflakes while foaming at the mouth about these supposed “snowflakes”
popeboyQ t1_iudl17q wrote
Why don't you go drink your Bud Light and let the educated discuss this topic.
OPACY_Magic t1_iudw4y3 wrote
I bet you cried when Trump lost and claimed it was rigged because you are a sore loser “snowflake” lol
Danger-Moose t1_iudq2x8 wrote
They've been removed, and this one will be too. Stop being such a snowflake and get over it.
JacobusRex t1_iudab20 wrote
Best part of this news is the intersection will finally be reworked. Lets put a confederate up at hermitage and westwood next so we can fix that disaster too.