Submitted by HoldingtheMoon t3_z8e3b5 in rva
Malls are dying all over the country, including, from my understanding, a mall or two in the Richmond area.
What is keeping the Short Pump mall viable and will it continue to be so?
Were the Town Center Mall to close, what would that do to the surrounding Short Pump area?
Just curious and interested in your thoughts.
Yeah I’m all the way from Roanoke and people would drive to Short Pump to shop for prom dresses. It’s a better mall than most of VA has access to.
Also from Roanoke!! The first time I went to the Short Pump mall after only ever going to Valley View, my mind was blown. I had to call my friend bc I got lost. Couldn’t believe how big it was. Part of me still can’t lol
I grew up in Houston but we’d drive up to MD every year to visit family. For some reason we picked Roanoke as an overnight stay every year and I used to beg my parents to take me to Valley View whenever we were there - I have no idea why but I was in love with that place, I guess maybe they had a store that wasn’t at the mall I went to in Houston but whatever it was, Roanoke became one of my favorite places as a kid
I hope the former mayor of Roanoke reads this.
I'm from Bluefield and we used to drive to Roanoke to shop at Valley View for Christmas -- it had so many more stores than our Mercer Mall. When I moved to Richmond I was amazed at how many malls they had.
Lmao literally when my parents come visit me from Roanoke, they’re coming just as much for short pump as me
I would add that short pump town center has many stores with only location in the area.
Regarding Stoney Point, it does seem to be dying. One of three anchors has been vacant for multiple years now and Saks has closed off its second floor. There have been a couple of owners who’ve given up on it. Stoney Points problem is that there was essentially no land to build out add’l retail unlike Short Pump. It is actually very easily accessible from the West End (Parham to Chippenham) - there just wasn’t and isn’t enough to draw people there unlike Short Pump (and with the traffic, is Short Pump really that more accessible?). Regency Mall, once the top mall and a regional destination before Short Pump arrived, had the same limitations as there was limited add’l space to build out more retail in the surrounding area (not as limited but still limited relative to Short Pump which was an area of wide open fields prior to ~2000).
it's been a while since i went but as a mall loving person my memory of stoney point was "nothing i can afford" and i left. and i love to window shop, but i remember maybe there being a candy store? and i literally couldn't even buy a few tshirts somewhere else or grab a bite to eat.
Being a smaller, upscale mall with above average chain restaurants was its initial draw which worked for a few years… but that was more than a few years ago. It’s financing was actually subsidized by the City which I think still owns the parking lots (may not be the City directly but an ‘authority’ on behalf of the City).
Well I must be poor because when it said upscale I thought maybe Abercombie, Hollister etc with some of those Tiffany type stores sprinkled between. So that’s why I bothered to go. I literally cannot afford anything there and if I was to splurge I’d just buy it online or at the outlets. I’d say with income inequality, inflation and more a lot of other people may feel the same.
I left RIC in 2014 and I am surprised Stony Point is still functional as malls we're slowly dying even then and Stony Point just logistically was a terrible place. The only way to get to it is via the highway and it's pretty inconvenient to get to and there was no way to fix that. Short Pump has plenty of mall plus surrounding stores so you can make a trip and get things done with all the options close by, whereas Stony Point all you can do is go there and if it doesn't have what you want it's now a hassle to get to another shopping area.
I figured Stoney Point's days were numbered when it lost it's Starbucks store (what, like 6+ years ago?) If you can't keep a Starbucks going in a suburban shopping area, you've got no traffic
Despite traffic Short Pump is super accessible. Being close to I-64 is a major asset. I used to work in site selection - one of the main stats real estate developers look at is average daily traffic counts nearby. In that regard - Short Pump is tremendously better located than Stony Point and the traffic is an asset rather than a detriment because it’s more eyeballs and foot traffic to your location.
Valid points… Except for those of us who avoid it specifically because of the traffic - and I don’t think many people are walking along Broad Street there (ie, no foot traffic)
> Being close to I-64 is a major asset.
And also they're building a new I-64 exit at the other end of the mall (North Gayton) in a few years.
I was going to say the same thing. I've only been to Stoney Point a handful of times, but it seemed half dead the last couple.
I think if (or once?) Cinebistro shuts down, that'll be the end for Stony Point.
i used to work in stony point mall about 2 years ago, and i swear in the short time i was there, i saw like 3 stores close. I still head back out there every now and then because there’s a record store I like there, but it just gets more depressing every time
I recall when short pump and stony point opened their doors, and it may have been within the same year(?). Stony Point was clearly for the one percenters (haha) and Short Pump was a convergence of Regency and Chesterfield into one big super-mall that felt so much cooler and polished at the time. The Macys shoe department was my personal mecca for years. Also Short Pump always decks the freaking halls during Christmas and I love it.
I went to Highschool in Nova, ballston mall!!! Right down the street from my Highschool! I haven’t been back to nova in 20 years, please tell me about ballston quarter
I agree with all of this. Even down to the ways they draw folks in. Its not just a place to shop. Its a destination woth its things like the train for kids, and the summer shows series, etc. If you are super bored, you could just walk around and people watch /window shop while having a coffee and pastry and kill an hour or two. A traditional mall doesn't have that feel. In particular the difference between open air and trapped inside brown/pink tiled walls
RIP VCC 1991-2022
WHAT HOW DID I NOT KNOW TIHS
edit ugh it's the 90s in me but i hate malls dying. i am so nostalgic for them and love them for some reason. in fact when i travel i get excited to see a new mall. if i had enough money, i'd keep them all in business. i try to go a handful of times a year at least but i know that's not nearly enough. :( but all the memories of walking in them as a teenager and my very own kid asking to go to the movies and walk around for a bit with spending money... i just hate to see them go.
I also hate malls dying but haven't spent much time at a mall myself in a while. I have fond memories of the Southland Mall in Marion, OH. Walking up and down the main hallway with friends, tossing coins in the fountain, KB Toys. The mall also had our town's movie theater, so it was cool to see a late movie and walk out into an empty mall at the end at 11pm and stuff.
i try to go but mainly go to chesterfield town center and/or Southpark but i love to explore new malls if i travel. it’s only a few times a year and i know if nobody goes they’re going to close so even though sometimes stuff is cheaper online, i go browse the clearance racks, eat at the food court, stuff like that so at least i am spending a bit even if i’m not enough to sustain it on my own. i figure if most of us who do like them make an effort to show up some it’ll at least give them a fighting chance. so long as they still have some stores worth visiting i will keep going
and also kb toys was the BEST as a kid right up there with toys r us but since it was in the mall it felt super special
My kids have so many of my books with the KB Toys sticker on them. They always had the hot drops of Little Critter books.
You didn't know it closed because it's been SO LONG SINCE YOU'VE BEEN THERE.
Dudeguy and I were in there back in 2019-ish wandering around and it was already 2/3 empty, smelling like broken HVAC, mildew, and regret.
And that's why malls are closing.
It's been way longer than that they've basically been on life support. I moved back to VA in 2013 and went up there on Black Friday to snag some tools from Sears, and that whole side of the road was vacant aside from like 20 cars at Sears. Previously, I think the last time I went was to pick up some Bridal Party gifts for a wedding in like 2010, and a damn good chunk of the stores were either empty or in that generic-rebrand stage where the old chick-fil-a had moved out, but the stall still served chicken sandwiches with a sign that said "Chicken-Burger" in the same font.
I wasted many hours walking around Regency. I’m an old
Mannnn Regency was poppin’ when I was in middle & high school. Definitely my favorite mall growing up.
Hell yeah! I remember Mr. Dunderbak's and the smell of strange food.
If you want to travel back in time go to Greenbrier Mall in Chesapeake. I stopped there to charge my car and it's like a weird pocket of Virginia stuck in 2001. The mall was loaded with people walking around, stores were all full, food court had several options, surreal. Even the area around it was full of 90s holdouts like Fazolis and Joe's Crab Shack.
I actually went with my friend maybe a year ago and yeah that one is one of the ones on thin ice
I was surprised at how far MacArthur has fallen too. I used to love to make the trip and drive despite how long it was a couple times a year. Always had cool unique stores like the Sanrio store and last time we went I can’t remember what was actually there but it was nothing that made me want to return
VCC died well before 2022.
Pretty sure I can keep Chesterfield Town Center in business solely based off my HomeGoods receipts
Same except for me it's Barnes and Noble
You mean the place with the bathrooms?
It’s the best one in town!
You’re the other one? 😅
I love the AtHome there
You and me both!
It's in a well off area with stores that appeal to them. Location is everything especially when it comes to malls.
The mall is healthy and popular. It's surrounded by population and the area stays busy. You're talking 20 years, and by then whole area will be different.
Short Pump has enough critical mass that if the mall were to close the neighborhood would survive just fine. It would likely just be replaced by some sort of huge residential development (or more likely mixed use project like West Broad village).
The mall certainly played a huge role in the development of that area but people move there because they see it as a desirable place to live and way of life and not necessarily its proximity to the mall.
There can be only one
Turns out that one is Short pump
Short Pump kinda is the mall in a lot of suburban RVA minds. Also its got some good restaurants and its pretty. Good for dates and Younger people hanging out.
Actually funny story, in Missouri they have mall cops kick out teenagers after 4pm, and if thats not a reason malls are dying then IDK what is
I’m not in retail, but I’ve seen the results for planning. Short Pump is doing the opposite of dying, and with the growth planned west of Staples Mill through 2027- it’s looking like a long tenure.
All the malls in the area seem to be booming. I’m from Savannah, GA and there are two indoor malls. One is god damn dead like no GameStop, no American Eagle, Hollister or similar store, and even the sbarros packed up and left. The other mall was starting to lose a lot of stores, but the Target and Bass Pro kept some people coming. Still nothing compared to what it was.
Then I move to Chester and see mall in Colonial Heights, Chesterfield, Short Pump, Stony Point all packed with stores and people. I have no idea what this area does to keep all of them busy.
No one has ever accused Stony Point of being packed with people and stores.
I’ve only been there like twice and it seemed like it lol. I could be wrong
southpark (colonial heights) is kept alive by fort lee. chesterfield town center and short pump seem to be rarities as far as modern malls and are really healthy. i have no idea about stony point because i only went once and remember seeing tiffany's and some other stuff and laughed at the fact that i thought i'd be able to afford anything and left. never went back.
CTC has almost died a few times, the transition into a “lower end” mall saved it.
agree before box lunch and some other stuff it went through a rough period where it was looking like it was going downhill. glad it made it
What makes it a lower end mall, if it has the same amount stuff as any normal mall?
Does it? Home goods, tj max? Short Pump is obviously a upper middle class mall in comparison.
Yeah, but it has many of the same stores either inside it or around it.
Short Pump is like Tysons IMO (for Richmond, so its much smaller). All of the other malls are basically defunct. There has to be a place for the Apple Store (and Nordstrom needs to come back god damn it). I doubt Short Pump is going to go away any time soon.
>All of the other malls are basically defunct.
Uh, Chesterfield Towne center is always packed on the weekends..
The number of large malls an area can support seems to have settled in at one per 500K to 1 million people. That gives Richmond two, and DC and suburbs six or so. Both numbers seem to fit.
You can get great parking in the side of the mall, it’s def busy on the weekends.
I think the reason they're doing reasonably well is because they've struck a good balance on knowing who Mall-Generation people were, why they went, and how those tastes have changed. You can't run a mall off of Sears, S'Barros, Chick-Fil-A, Hot Topic and FYE. Middle and High Schoolers socialize digitally instead of needing a place to meetup and waste time, Gen X and Millenials always thought JC Pennies was lame, and Boomers are settled and not buying stuff by the truckload to fill a house and clothe the kids.
Gen X and elder-Millenial crowds that remember wandering malls still kind of want that type of space though. Shortpump gave them a more "adult" mall, where the stores are higher end lifestyle companies, the food options are a big step up from food courts, and the decor doesn't look like a saved by the bell episode. It managed to keep the core "come for X, wander for a couple hours" purpose of the old malls while providing the things that still interest the people who grew up haunting malls.
I go to Tyson’s near dc all the time … that mall is packed. It’s just a certain client demographic. Upper middle class it seems. More time to browse and being able to actually buy.
It's a different style from the classic indoor mall. It's a faux downtown for the suburbs. Suburbanites seem to enjoy having their own walkable area with lots of shops.
Isn’t there some talk at least of turning some of those giant surface parking lots into something a little more mixed use? That would be a very interesting project to me
Yes, the county hosted a design discussion earlier this year (see below).
https://henrico.us/projects/short-pump-town-center-design-charrette/
I like the forward thinking for a likely more car-less future. While far from perfect, I appreciate the investment the county is making in pedestrian and bike transportation (pathways, crossings, lower speed limits, etc.).
Higher class malls are doing well, lower class not so good.
I’m from Charlottesville and it’s always been a thing to drive to short pump, especially as a tween, cool kids got to go there with their friends as if it’s a special occasion. I think if they added a couple more stores that appealed to wider demographics they’ll continue to thrive
ltdan123 t1_iyb8f52 wrote
Short Pump is not an apples to apples comparison for the malls that are dying. First, It’s well located for the (growing) demographic that tends to frequent and spend money in such places. Second, It’s in great condition, and has good tenants relative to other malls in the area. This is more a symptom rather than a driver of success though. Third, It’s not as heavily department store focused as a traditional mall is, which are falling out of favor with consumers. One of its department store tenants even closed (Nordstrom). That certainly hurts as the owners now have lots of vacant space not making any money, but the mall has other draws, bringing up the fourth point: It has lots of mixed use (especially restaurants and hotels) so you can spend extended time there, or come if your primary reason isn’t shopping.
All of those make it a metro area-wide draw as well as a regional draw. I know people from VA Beach that come up for annual back to school shopping.
A “certain” type of mall is dying. Short Pump isnt that - it’s the evolution of what the traditional mall used to be. The giveaway is in the name - town center. Compare it to Tysons in NOVA - there’s enough there to be a regional and metro-wide draw. Other malls in NOVA that are more traditional are closing or have already closed or are being converted to mixed use. Think the old Ballston Mall becoming the Ballston Quarter.
Stony Point is kind of an exception and a unique case - I would hypothesize that even though it’s newer, RVA metro area isn’t big enough for two similar draws that compete for similar tenants. It’s also much harder to get to vs Short Pump, especially for the demographic it’s designed for who primarily live north of the river.