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VAtenkara t1_ixhh86p wrote

And yet I see my RPS teacher friends having to do fundraisers and drives just to afford necessary supplies for their classrooms.

Money well spent to change the name of schools that 95% of people didn’t even know were confederates

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opienandm t1_ixhr0z6 wrote

Imagine you are a black child and you are attending John B Cary Elementary school. At some point, you’re going to learn about google and find out that you are going to a school named in honor of a guy who was an enslaver and one of the architects of the Lost Cause.

Then, off to middle school. Same shit, different location. You’re now attending a school named in honor of James H. Binford, who was a Captain in the Confederate army and served in a division of howitzers which were used to fight to preserve slavery.

$150k isn’t chump change and it could buy a bunch of supplies in the short term. However, renaming the schools sends a clear message that our schools will not honor those who fought to preserve slavery. I think that has much more significant long-term impact on the students, teachers, and families.

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Charlesinrichmond OP t1_ixi9sm1 wrote

Why not just find another cary to name it after

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billion_billion t1_ixiwz2u wrote

Washington & Lee HS in Arlington kinda took this approach. It’s now Washington & Liberty, which allowed them to change the name and keep a lot of the W&L branding

Edit: corrected re-name

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burdell69 t1_ixjdsit wrote

It's actually Washington-Liberty now, even though I think Loving would have been a better name.

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opienandm t1_ixig81w wrote

I’d be fine with that. Even better, not a person.

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Chrahhh t1_ixi2anr wrote

Also sends a message that image matters more than substance and results. Won’t keep teachers around and won’t brighten students.

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handle2345 t1_ixiz864 wrote

Symbolism and messaging matter. It's not a zero-sum game

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Chrahhh t1_ixj6rqz wrote

No… educating children and giving teachers the resources to do it well matter. That is all.

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SwanOverSunshine t1_ixi8zbj wrote

Also, these schools weren’t named because they fought in the Confederate army. They’re named because of what they did in Richmond and for the Richmond school system. Disagree with spending money on this.

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[deleted] t1_ixiaoas wrote

[deleted]

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SwanOverSunshine t1_ixibwns wrote

Exactly, Binford and Cary were Richmond school superintendents, and did a lot of good for schools in Richmond. People are complex, and can do good and bad things in their lives. I’m really sick of this current puritanical black and white thinking about complex situations.

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Prestigious_Laugh300 t1_ixhlsel wrote

>The three board members who voted against the name changes cited the cost, which can range from $25,000 to $50,000 per school.

Here's the real question. How is it this high? Is it just repainting some stuff and a sign by the road? Can we not just repaint with a new school name the next time things need routine repainting? And find a sign less grand for the road?

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BurkeyTurger t1_ixhn42g wrote

If it's anything like the Brightpoint(dumbest fucking name btw) renaming you have school branded shit everywhere that they have to change.

All the letterhead, signs, promotional materials, website, apparel, etc. have to be switched over and can add up quickly.

Brightpoint for example is still using furniture that has the John Tyler seal on it because they either didn't budget for replacing it too or just don't care.

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setsails t1_ixi4nlb wrote

Don’t forget legal and compliance shockwaves

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Charlesinrichmond OP t1_ixhnssg wrote

I have to disagree with you I think it's 99.99% of people don't know they are Confederates

And wasn't ginter a gay man?

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goosey65 t1_ixi20pt wrote

Okay but they still were Confederates. Just because you can’t name every Nazi doesn’t mean they weren’t ones. Also, what does him maybe having been a gay man have to do with anything ?

There is never going to be a great time to spend this money but as someone pointed out earlier, it breakdowns to very little money per student. Maybe like Karmas suggested, spread out the renaming throughout the years.

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Charlesinrichmond OP t1_ixkbu8g wrote

so rename them. I'm fine with the not honoring confederates. But can't we find one Cary out there who was a good guy? How about John Cary the mapmaker? Let's just rename Cary after him. Yes, I'm serious. And was Ginter really that bad? (serious question, I though he wasn't, but I'm a yankee, I don't know)

It's always "pennies a day". but how many textbooks would that money buy in a system that needs them?

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Sage_Advice420 t1_ixi29lp wrote

Fuck confederates. All non-conscripted traitors should have been executed for treason after the war. Instead, they got to take their shitty belief systems home with them, and a few hundred years later, here we are.

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Charlesinrichmond OP t1_ixkbyrw wrote

mmm. speaking as a yankee, it was done poorly, but for a reason. Could have been done better. But death camps are NEVER the solution. Leave that shit to the Gestapo

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raindeerpie t1_ixk5x9u wrote

that would have been devastating to the country.

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Sage_Advice420 t1_ixk9x9h wrote

Cause the path they chose led to a goddamn utopia

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raindeerpie t1_ixkbmzd wrote

i mean.. yeah. it did. we are the greatest and most powerful country in the world. things are pretty fucking awesome for us. eliminating the entire population of the south after the civil war would have devastated the country. we had huge farming and metal working industries.

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Sage_Advice420 t1_ixkfjwx wrote

We are far from the greatest country in the world. Our politicians fight over how much money to take away from public services. We have more empty houses than unhoused people. We throw out literally as much food as we consume, yet children go hungry and schools take away free lunches because "socialism".

And who rails against "socialism"? The same ones who fly confederate flags and say "The South will rise again!" unironically. The same people who committed treason in the Civil War had kids who had kids who had kids who had kids who.... committed sedition and tried to overthrow the government because they couldn't accept the fact that their guy lost. Because losing is such an ingrained cultural pain to them, they HAVE to lose constantly so they can feel something. And this often boils over into racially motivated violence, politically motivated violence, sexually motivated violence,.. all because the core values of the confederacy were never burned away. They were planted, nurtured, fertilized, and its getting pretty ripe with fruit nowadays..

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raindeerpie t1_ixsfadm wrote

man. you have a real hate boner. even if all those things were even half as bad as you pretend they are we are still doing better than most countries in the world. go live in literally any other country for a few weeks and tell me its so bad here.

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Sage_Advice420 t1_ixt0nn4 wrote

I would LOVE to live in Japan or Sweden or Poland or Peru or Cuba or Vietnam or Kenya or The Somoan Islands for a few weeks! Public transportation, good infrastructure, universal Healthcare, effectice firearm safety laws, free university, and open borders. Sounds fuckin awesome, mate

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raindeerpie t1_ixxxkw4 wrote

oh how naive you are.

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Sage_Advice420 t1_ixyggae wrote

America was never great. It was founded by slavers.

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raindeerpie t1_iy3n62b wrote

not sure that's entirely accurate. but we definitely went along with the slave trade and made it a pretty integral part of our survival and culture for a while. but so did many many many other countries throughout time. some still do it. At least we got rid of it pretty quickly.

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Sage_Advice420 t1_iy3wudc wrote

Literally every founding father owned enslaved people.

And 400 years is a very long time. Your answer reflects very privileged, undereducated, and whitewashed exposure to Western History and its relation to the slave trade

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raindeerpie t1_iy3yfv8 wrote

and your answer represents a very small minded view of the world. 400 years is nothing. no countries hands are clean. surviving is hard and the ones who do didn't do it nicely. what matters is that we learned from our mistakes and are better because of it. things we do everyday today might be considered horrific and barbaric crimes in 100 years. I certainty won't judge you for it. just learn from it.

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Sage_Advice420 t1_iy3z3zq wrote

You're defending human slavery in America with "well, everyone else did it"

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raindeerpie t1_iy40p4k wrote

see you just keep coming back to that. you're not listening to me. i never once defended slavery. it was an awful terrible thing. but it is not who we are as a country now and the crimes of our fathers our not ours to carry. you are just going to torture yourself if all you can see about yourself is what your forefathers did 200 years ago.

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Sage_Advice420 t1_iy4a42t wrote

The fuck you mean "it's not who we are as a country now"?

You been in a coma from 2012 until yesterday??

There's 2 groups of people in this country: the first group is opposed to slavery, racism, homophobia, transphobia, xenophobia, fascism, and racially motivated vigilantes. The 2nd group supports all of those things.

The 2nd group elected the 45th president. The 2nd group tried to overthrow the government in a violent insurrection that resulted in the murders of 4 cops. The 2nd group has gone in record as wanting to make it illegal to marry someone of the same gender, illegal to marry someone of a different race, illegal to have access to lifesaving healthcare and prenatal care, illegal to read certain books, illegal to TEACH THAT AMERICA WAS BUILT BY RACIST SLAVE OWNERS.

One 1 group would ever deny the historical facts that this country was "discovered" by racist slavers, founded by racist slavers, spent the next few hundred years run by racist slavers and racist deacendants of slavers writing all the laws, and its not the first group of educated, compassionate people.

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raindeerpie t1_iy4cg9k wrote

again. you are thinking very small minded. you are only looking at a very small piece of the pie and focusing solely on a very very small minority of people. the vast majority of the people you say are in that 2nd group do not think that way at all. the people you put in group one have killed just as many people in far more violent protests. i suggest you stop looking at social media for your news. come up with your own opinions instead of parroting what you hear on reddit and network news.

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dl_crash t1_ixic71h wrote

Have you seen the school budget and expenses do you know that they can't actually afford supplies.

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FeeParty5082 t1_ixifahk wrote

Have you ever met a teacher who didn't have to buy a huge portion of their own supplies?

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dl_crash t1_ixonp4m wrote

So that's a no, you've never seen a school budget or expenses. If they need crayons why aren't we calling Crayola for a pallet of them? Asking tax payers to pay retail prices to support the school is the worst way to go.

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Soloemilia t1_ixj68h1 wrote

Teachers in wealthy well funded districts buy classroom decorations and things like that. RPS does have paper basics like that

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ValidGarry t1_ixhi4t0 wrote

I see that in the counties as well. Just because the overall education system is screwed does not mean we should tolerate schools named after confederate soldiers.

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parrisjd t1_ixhkp6f wrote

I think at some point you have to look at schools named for people specifically because of their being a Confederate, like Jefferson Davis, vs those named for people for other reasons, like John Cary. Cary, postwar, became superintendent of the Richmond schools who raised teacher salaries and promoted increased funding for the education of black students.

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ValidGarry t1_ixhqw6b wrote

It's not my call to make. I just listen and try to support those who believe it is right for their communities and students.

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opienandm t1_ixhswcd wrote

John B Cary owned slaves, fought for slavery, and was an architect of the Lost Cause. No school should be named after someone like that even if they lived like a saint after doing those things.

That would be akin to asking the SPCA to name a facility after Michael Vick. In some venues, there should never be a “but look at what he did after…”

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goosey65 t1_ixi1enq wrote

Why is this being downvoted ? It’s true!

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Chrahhh t1_ixi2ny8 wrote

Owning slaves is horrible in 2022, but it wasn’t (to wealthy landowners who could) in 1860.

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goosey65 t1_ixi6vrv wrote

Please, I am begging you to even just read the Wikipedia about American Slavery before writing shit like that. Just because something was “socially acceptable” in certain circles doesn’t make it not horrible. American Slavery was an inhumane, genocidal practice that elevated slavery to unknown level of cruelty and profit.

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Chrahhh t1_ixi76k0 wrote

who tf said slavery wasn't horrible? all i said was in 1860 it wasn't widely considered inhumane. the people who lived 150+ years ago don't have our modern moral compass to guide them.

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goosey65 t1_ixi7p0p wrote

Large factions of society and the world didn’t agree with it- hence the civil war, the abolitionist movement, the fact that even England stopped participating in the slave trade system years before the USA. It’s a myth that people didn’t know slavery wasn’t a fucked practice. People chose profits over humanity and we don’t have to celebrate that or uphold it.

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Chrahhh t1_ixi8km8 wrote

*insert image of me, talking at a wall*

here's a video that might help you understand

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