Submitted by Kindly_Boysenberry_7 t3_10q9axe in rva

Someone reached out to me in my DMs and asked me to do a post on this topic. NOTE: As a disclaimer of sorts, I work with a number of investors, some of whom are full- or part-time 'flippers." Additionally, there are flippers across all price points. A flipped house in the $250,000 range is a completely different animal than a flipped house in the $800,000 range.

ALSO: I am not going to name names on some of the notoriously bad flippers in town, mainly because I don't want to get sued. But ask around, and I'm sure you will start hearing some names over and over.

WHAT TO LOOK FOR IN A FLIP:

SYSTEMS: First, evaluate the systems, the most important part of the house. Think of this as the envelope + the "guts" of the house. Evaluate:

  • Roof: Is it new? If not brand new, is it slate? Slate is the best kind of roof you can have. PERIOD.Its a 200 year roof. If the roof is not new, and not slate, when was it replaced? If it's recent, and you are offering on the property, make sure to find out who did the roof install and get a copy of the roof warranty paperwork. Nothing irritates me more than a flip with an old roof. Also, if it's a new roof it shouldn't be the cheapest kind of roof, it needs to be dimensional tabbed shingles.
  • Exterior cladding (brick, Hardiplank, vinyl, etc.): If it's brick or another kind of masonry like stone or stucco, what kind of condition does the masonry appear to be in? Has the brick been repointed, meaning the mortar joints have been re-mortared? If it has been repointed, has it been done correctly? With houses of a certain age, mainly 1930s and earlier, lime-based mortar must be used due to the softness and porousness of the brick. So houses in many areas of the City (Church Hill, the Fan, Museum District, Ginter Park, Bellevue, etc.) need special mortar. As far as other types of cladding, Hardiplank is better than vinyl in terms of durability. If you are looking at a 1980s-1990s home, avoid Masonite.
  • Windows: Have the windows been replaced? If they have, they will often have a lifetime warranty. Make sure to get the installation information. If the windows are original windows, are they operable? What kind of condition are they in? Are there storm windows?
  • Electrical system: Has the electrical system been updated? Look at the panel. If it's been updated recently, it should be a 200 amp panel and it should look fairly new. Are the breakers labeled? The breakers are required to be labeled. Is there ACTIVE knob and tube wiring? People freak out about this, and IMO really shouldn't. Oftentimes the knob and tube still exists in the basement and/or attic, but it hasn't been "pulled" because it's a time- and labor-intensive process. Your inspector can easily check to confirm whether knob and tube wiring is active.
  • Plumbing: Check out the water and sewer pipes. In older homes the sewer stack(s) would likely have been cast iron and the supply lines likely would have been galvanized steel (useful life of 20-50 years). Have they been replaced? If they have been replaced they are likely either copper or plastic. You should be able to see piping in the basement.
  • HVAC: What is the age of the HVAC system? Is it heat pump + A/C or just A/C? If the house has operable radiators, how old is the boiler and what is the fuel source (oil or gas)? If it is oil, or was oil, is the oil tank above ground or under ground? NOTE: If the house had an underground oil tank, often referred to as an "UST," make sure it is properly closed and sealed before closing. The SELLER should pay for this, and you want to make sure you hold on to this paperwork somewhere safe. USTs were most common in the 1940s-1960s, so they are often found in City neighborhoods of that era in the Near West End or South of the River.
  • Miscellaneous: Is there a well? A septic system? If you are in the City, has the water line from the street to the house been replaced? How does the yard look? If there is there fencing, is it new?

If the systems are not new, or not of a recent era and in good condition, this is not a great sign for the quality of the flip. But note a good flipper may also buy a "little old lady" house with new or new-ish systems, so if everything is not brand new that does not mean it's a "bad" flip. For example a brick house with a slate roof is a GREAT starting point.

MATERIAL SELECTIONS: Are the materials selected builder grade? For example, are there infamous "booby lights" throughout the house? Are all the fixtures the cheapest off-the-shelf stuff from Lowe's or Home Depot? Or did the flipper make some nicer selections, whether it be with lighting, bath hardware, flooring, etc.? If the finishes that you can see are cheap, I personally take that as a sign the flipper is unlikely to have done the more expensive, unsexy work you can't see behind the walls. And it's probably not completely fair, but if in an older house the flipper does carpet or luxury vinyl tile (LVT) throughout the house, rather than refinishing hardwood floors, I think that's a red flag.

APPLIANCES: I personally think in a flipped house there should be all new appliances. If the flipper cheaped out on an expense as relatively low as the cost of new appliances, I think that's a red flag for the rest of the work. And this is just a pet peeve of mine, but I personally believe above a certain price point the flip should come with a washer and dryer, and a full sized washer and dryer at that, not one of those single stack units.

INSTALLATION: Is the actual work that you can see sloppy? Is flooring installed well, without gaps? Is the painting clean? Have the switch plates been replaced? Are the details done properly? Sloppy work on what you can see = sloppy work on what you can't.

Hope this is helpful. I am sure there are things I am forgetting. u/charlesinrichmond, feel free to jump in.

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opienandm t1_j6oplzo wrote

This is a good overall guide.

Some things I’ll add:

  • Check to see that every electrical receptacle is grounded. You can pick up a cheap plug tester which you can use. Sometimes, people will replace two pronged receptacles with three pronged, but that doesn’t mean the circuit is grounded. If all aren’t grounded, it’s almost guaranteed that the flipper has cut corners and you might find some significant safety issues in the future.
  • Verify that the hot water heater is right sized for the number of occupants and activity in the house. This is another place where flippers may attempt to save some money, but it’s a PITA if you don’t have the right sized unit. Also, check to make sure that any CPVC has been replaced with PEX. It’s not a matter of if, but when older CVPC will fail. If there was CVPC in the house, have your inspector look for evidence that it’s all been replaced.
  • The foundation - much more important in older homes, make sure you have a structural inspector take a thorough look at things. Some repairs are relatively cheap, but others can be a very expensive and lengthy nightmare. It’s not terribly difficult to hide some foundation problems during a renovation, but if they exist they will appear sooner or later.
  • Sewer line: If the house is more than 50 years old, it may be worth the piece of mind to have the sewer line scoped between the house and the city/county. It’s not very expensive, and it can prevent a very unpleasant surprise in the future. These issues are very difficult or impossible for an inspector to detect.
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Kindly_Boysenberry_7 OP t1_j6otajo wrote

On ungrounded outlets, I don't necessarily think it means the flipper did a bad job if certain outlets are ungrounded. However, what you don't want to see is three prong outlets for ungrounded receptacles. Having those receptacles with two prong outlets is fine. Happens a lot in old houses. You don't want someone thinking a receptacle is grounded when it's not. So two-pronged, ungrounded plug = fine. Three pronged, ungrounded plug - NOT fine.

I agree to some extent on foundation issues. However, as someone who deals with almost exclusively older homes (1890s-1960s), especially with 100+ year old houses some lean and sway doesn't necessarily mean a scary structural issue. Homes settle over time. It is what it is. But the materials and craftsmanship of masonry 100+ year old homes will almost always beat the pants off any kind of new construction, unless it was a very high end, new custom build. Now if it's SEVERE sway, and/or obvious major cracking, that might be worth having a structural engineer evaluate it. And have a REPUTABLE structural engineer, who knows old houses, look at it. Do not get one of those foundation repair companies, especially the ones that advertise on TV.

Agree on scoping a sewer. Just had it done for a 196os house in the Near West End in Henrico and it was about $350.

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opienandm t1_j6pdhi8 wrote

There are really only two safe options for an ungrounded circuit:

  • Rewire with a ground wire and install a three prong receptacle
  • Replace the receptacle with a GFCI receptacle

These will in most cases protect humans from electrical shock. The second will NOT protect electronics however.

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johnnycoolmane t1_j6ow2om wrote

Anyone you would recommend for scoping?

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Kindly_Boysenberry_7 OP t1_j6pdzlw wrote

Most recently used a company called Triangle Plumbing.

https://triangleplumbingservice.business.site/

Actual service was by a guy named Doug, who was super friendly and helpful. He actually called 30 minutes before arriving, was 10 minutes early, spent 30-40 minutes and multiple tries to get the scope through, explained what he found (patiently), and called my buyer client, who wasn't present, and re-explained the findings when I asked. I'm not sure they are a large company, but based on my experience, I would recommend them.

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coconut_sorbet t1_j6p11zq wrote

Our realtor really encouraged us to get the sewer scope done, and I'm massively grateful that they did. The pipe had broken some time earlier and was leaking raw sewage into the yard - 8 feet down, but still. It was like a $15k estimate and we were able to work with the sellers about covering it.

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The_Cawing_Chemist t1_j6oqjov wrote

Are you a real estate agent? Because this is the level of knowledge I’d like to see in an agent to justify their realtor fee. Anyhow, I appreciate the post!

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Kindly_Boysenberry_7 OP t1_j6or456 wrote

Yes I am. :)

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The_Cawing_Chemist t1_j6osf4p wrote

I know people who have felt like having a buyers agent was a rip off and not worth the service they received. Clearly you have good knowledge that could help a buyer assess whether or not a house they are looking at is in good condition, and valued properly.

On average, so you find that most of your peers have this level of knowledge? Can you comment on why agents are worth 3% of the sales price?

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Kindly_Boysenberry_7 OP t1_j6oy0op wrote

NO. Most agents are idiots. And then there are agents who may not be idiots, but place their own financial self-interest over the best interest of their clients, which is even worse.

Hopefully this downturn will knock a lot of bad agents out of the business. Every time the real estate market gets crazy hot people get into the business, and every time the going gets tough agents who can't hack it in a tough market leave the business in droves.

In my opinion a good agent earns every bit of their commission. They help you find the right property, negotiate the contract, and get from contract to closing. They will take you through the inspection, negotiate the inspection addendum, ensure the property appraises by communicating with the appraiser and/or listing agent, provide guidance on lenders, inspectors, appraisers, and closing attorneys, explain all parts of the process. The real work isn't finding the property - with Zillow and other sites you can find properties that meet your criteria just as easily as I can - it's getting you under contract and from contract to closing. A good agent will advise you on the market, and broader trends that might impact your home buying tactics. And the buyer pays nothing out of their own pocket for the buyer's agent commission. That 3% comes from the listing commission the seller agreed to pay the listing agent, and that the listing agent agreed to share in a co-broked deal.

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The_Cawing_Chemist t1_j6p8dxl wrote

Really appreciate you chiming in. One final question: how do I (an idiot) make sure that I don’t hire an idiot agent? I’m sure most of them can drop fancy jargon I don’t understand in an attempt to sound knowledgeable and qualified, so how I do make sure I work with one who truly knows their stuff?

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Kindly_Boysenberry_7 OP t1_j6pk0gk wrote

The biggest deal in my opinion is an honest, face-to-face (or Zoom, I guess) conversation. Does the agent answer your questions honestly and directly? Do you feel like they are educating you about the process and the market? How comfortable do you feel with them personally? This is a personal service agreement, so you need to get along. You don't have to become best friends, but you will be spending a lot of time together.

QUESTIONS I'D ASK:

No. 1: Is this how you make your living? Do you sell real estate 100% of the time?

If the answer is "no," move on to the next candidate.

No. 2: How much real estate do you sell annually? Ask for this in units (number of homes/condos/townhomes) and in volume (dollar amount).

No. 3: How much real estate do you sell in the particular area? If you don't sell much in the area, what experience do you have so I can trust your ability. For example, did you grow up in the area, or live in the area?

No. 4: Get 2-3 references and ask them about their experience with the particular agent.

No. 5: Check for any complaints with the Real Estate Board and/or the Richmond Association of Realtors.

No. 6: Ask any other specific questions that you might have, like how the agent communicates (text, email, phone), what they consider a successful transaction, what they see as the biggest issue or obstacle in this market.

I'm sure there is other stuff others like u/gowhatyourself can chime in but that's what I've got off the top of my head.

ETA: Spelling

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NotLurking t1_j6pak7l wrote

My current home is new construction from a decent builder. The realtor helping me sell my old house offered to represent me in the purchase of my new place. I thought he was just trying to make the fee, but he definitely earned it. He found items the builder and I both missed at every walk through. He made sure every option and upgrade I picked were actually installed in the house. I could have done all of this myself, but he saved me quite a bit of time and the builder seemed just a bit more responsive when my realtor was involved.

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Derigiberble t1_j6pjl6q wrote

Tip for dating a door and outside upgrades: Google maps includes historical street view data, and Google Earth on the desktop (not your phone or tablet!) allows you to do the same with satellite photos.

I was able to date the age of the roof in the place we are buying to a few-month window because the new roof was present in a Google Earth satellite photo but was not present in a street view pass a few months earlier. Also was able to date a bunch of outdoor upgrades and landscaping because a satellite capture happened to show the crews installing them.

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C14R16 t1_j6p0cxm wrote

Are flippers really carpeting hardwood in 2023?

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JeffRVA t1_j6p156u wrote

If you're looking at a house, especially an older one, with a septic system, get an independent inspection done on it. The inspection sellers need to do prior to selling only needs to certify it's working. You want to know the age of it, the condition of the drainfield, etc. You don't want to get stuck having to replace an aging/failing system as it can be very expensive.

I say this from the experience of owing a mid-50's rancher years ago that had the original 50 year old system when we bought it. We had an issue a few years later that almost caused us to have to replace the entire thing. It was shitty and trust me when I say you don't want to deal with it.

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Kindly_Boysenberry_7 OP t1_j6pgw13 wrote

💯 agree. I don't do much rural stuff at all, so I rarely deal with septic. But if that's the sewer system, you need a full septic inspection. Same with well. You might need a radon inspection. I recommend a roof inspection if the roof isn't new or new-ish - even for slate. And sewer scoping is more and more common.

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testingforscience122 t1_j6p3eq8 wrote

This was a really nice post. One thing to remind people is a flipped house does not mean a new house, it is still a used house with all the used house problem and to be honest even the best contractor or flipper is not looking for problems with a fine tooth comb, so you will still fine stuff that needs fixing, because flipper normally isn’t really living in the house.

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constructit t1_j6owz3z wrote

Another tip is to never take information from real estate agents when it comes to construction related matters. They have seen a lot of houses and often consider themselves knowledgeable, but it’s superficial knowledge. Find a good contractor who isn’t cheap and is busy, that’s who you can trust. They will certainly chime in and say I’m wrong but once they can run a panel box or cut a roof I’ll change my mind. Stick with the paper and pencils and let the pros handle the work

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whowasonCRACK2 t1_j6omu9w wrote

This shit sucks. Housing is for humans, not your portfolio.

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Dangerous-Ad9208 t1_j6oojfv wrote

Quit your bitching. He’s not saying this to promote rental properties, he’s just giving advices to future homeowners so that they don’t have a shitty house on their hands, especially their dream house because they bought from the wrong flipper. Ain’t nothing wrong with that.

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whowasonCRACK2 t1_j6oyl7z wrote

Yes the content of this specific post is geared towards buying flipped houses, but you would need to be brain dead to not realize this knowledge only comes from a lifetime of parasitic middle-manning the real estate industry.

r/rva when a landlord does anything: “🤬 get a real job”

When it’s a house flipper: “noo! That’s just a precious mom and pop housing provider”

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Kindly_Boysenberry_7 OP t1_j6pfy2a wrote

No. 1: Have not been in real estate a lifetime. Only 15+ years. Before that I was a corporate lawyer.

No. 2: Not sure what "parasitic middle-manning the real estate industry" means. Sounds.....bad.

Some flippers are good. Some flippers are bad. They are selling updated homes to willing buyers. I've got no problem with that.

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Kindly_Boysenberry_7 OP t1_j6oocrx wrote

Well, flips actually put housing that oftentimes "real" buyers couldn't buy back into the housing inventory. Or put old, dated inventory that no one is buying - because again, they only want "DONE!" - back into the active inventory. So I don't view what flippers do as a bad thing. When I don't think it's good is when first time buyers - or any buyers, really - get sucked into a badly done flip that turns into an unexpected money pit for them.

ETA: Sometimes properties will not qualify for financing for a "regular" buyer, so unless an investor comes in and updates the home, it just sits there and rots. Examples = non-functional heating systems, damaged roofs, etc.

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The_Cawing_Chemist t1_j6or81o wrote

Alright so if property can’t be used as an investment source anymore, what do people do? End up with a non-diversified portfolio and all their assets tied into the stock market? Can land still be used as an asset or is that off limits too? Can I own any tangible asset or am I just fucked if the market isn’t doing well?

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Kindly_Boysenberry_7 OP t1_j6ouxv4 wrote

I'm happy for people to invest in real property. I am just disgusted by the people who are buying up real estate to use as short term rentals (STRs), knowing they are flaunting the law. The law exists to balance the interests of homeowners who want to make additional money vs. the needs of the community.

If you live in a triplex and decide to operate the two other units as Airbnbs - that's legal under the City law and fine with me, so long as you register your units and pay the fees. If you have a garage apartment on your property and you want to make that an Airbnb, again, fine with me, it's legal under the law so long as you register with the City.

However, what is NOT COOL with me is for people to buy homes or multifamily buildings in the City, NOT live in them, and turn them into Airbnbs.

Want to buy real estate as an investment and use it as a year-round-rental? That's perfectly fine. I think investors who don't have real estate as part of their portfolio are making a mistake. But I also think the public policy of restricting Airbnbs in order to ensure there is enough affordable and available housing for real people, residents of this City, is the right approach. And it infuriates me that people are blatantly ignoring the law and then screaming about "my rights!"

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The_Cawing_Chemist t1_j6owgyj wrote

Is Richmond enough of a tourist destination for a significant amount of inventory to be gobbled up by those greedy STR investors?

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Kindly_Boysenberry_7 OP t1_j6oyxlr wrote

Yes. We have a problem Airbnb in my neighborhood. Turns out the owner is an out-of-town investor who owns 23 PROPERTIES in the City. That's one dude. Many of the properties are in what I consider the first time buyer price range. How do you feel about someone coming into the City and taking 20+ properties out of inventory for either homebuyers or year-round tenants?

Remember, before the huge rise in STRs over the last three years, most investor-owned properties would have been "normal" rentals.

ETA: Spelling

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