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Iliamna_remota t1_j85po4d wrote

It's not a real placebo if they know.

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t3hlazy1 t1_j878nqb wrote

Is there a term for this? We have placebo and nocebo. Maybe this is “knowncebo”?

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Th1nk1ngTh1ng t1_j85wd13 wrote

Thank you. And, also this study broke the "blinds" by telling people what they getting. That's not a double-blind study.

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blay12 t1_j862qpf wrote

But it never claimed to be a double blind study? Not all experiments are double blind…hell, not all experiments are even single blind.

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Th1nk1ngTh1ng t1_j863dx9 wrote

True, but If it's not a double blind study then you can't eliminate the possibility that the respondents aren't reporting the information they think the researchers want to hear. It taints the evidence - biases the sample - especially in human trials.

I've read a number of these "we broke the blinds" placebo studies, and they always find that the people who know they are getting a placebo report extreme results. And, my conclusion is: "of course, they did! They knew that's what the researchers wanted to hear."

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[deleted] t1_j86qynl wrote

[deleted]

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Th1nk1ngTh1ng t1_j873oba wrote

Well, first of all. They are not demonstrating causality with this study because the only scientific method to do that is through multiple confirming double blind randomized controlled trials ("RCT"). That's sort of my point in my previous posts.

If there is a method to test causality of the placebo effect, that's the only way to go about it. (I'm a statistician, btw, that's why I believe this to be the case.)

The placebo in RCTs isn't given to prove the placebo effect exists. It's given to create a control group on the presumption that the placebo effect may exist. It's given to account for the possibility of a placebo effect.

I'm not really sure how to test the causality of the placebo effect but, i would point out that there really isn't any reason to presume that there is a singular cause to the placebo effect. And, asking me to do that in relation to this study is shifting the burden of proof. It's not on me to prove that. It's on the authors of this study to demonstrate that they have.

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