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Ksradrik t1_ja09geu wrote

As somebody who has both, the causation and the result, my personal feeling is that I simply seek security, change isnt really welcomed after all.


Starbuck4 t1_ja1n5du wrote

Same! Surprises aren’t usually great.


Histo_Man t1_ja25co1 wrote

That's why I spend forever looking for something to watch on Netflix but usually put on something I've seen before.


Starbuck4 t1_ja2x4t5 wrote

Seriously same, my go-to has been Adventure Time or Midnight Gospel.


Obeythesnail t1_ja3v60h wrote

I just searched netflix for 25 minutes! And put on a stand up that I've seen at least 4 times.


chrisdh79 OP t1_j9znwhq wrote

From the article: New research provides evidence that people who grew up in an unstable environment are more susceptible to food addiction. The findings, published in the journal Appetite, indicate that unpredictability in one’s earlier stages of life is associated with maladaptive patterns of food intake.

Food addiction is a term used to describe a problematic pattern of food intake characterized by a lack of control, unsuccessful attempts to eat less, and continuing to overeat despite negative consequences.

“Considering the deleterious consequences of food addiction (e.g., obesity and depression), the risk factors leading to adults’ food addiction warrant examination,” said study author Hope Zhou, a PhD student at the University of Macau.

“Understanding the psychological mechanism of food addiction from the perspective of life history may help evaluate and decrease one’s risks for food addiction. These results may yield a theoretical framework for the development of food addiction and practical insights for future food addiction intervention programs.”

The new study was based on life history theory, which seeks to explain how organisms allocate resources over their lifetime in order to maximize their reproductive success. The theory holds that one’s early life environment shapes internal strategies of how to allocate energy and resources.


pete_68 t1_j9zppf4 wrote

My wife and I are currently going through training to become foster parents and there's a lot about food insecurity and other food issues. It's honestly terribly depressing. And thinking about it, I can't think of a single obese person that I know well who had a decent home life growing up, so this seems to track with my anecdotal experience.


tyler1128 t1_ja33sxu wrote

If only having children required training. Serious props to you for going the adoption route, it's important and undervalues.

EDIT: sorry, I misinterpreted it a bit. Still big props on doing foster parenthood.


pete_68 t1_ja34wfm wrote

Thanks. It's terrifying and we're not 100% sure we're going to be able to do it. We're going to give it a shot, though. And if it works out, it works out and if it doesn't, we'll find some other way to help out.

As part of this process, we've spoken to a lot of foster families and found that they need a lot of support in other ways because there's just so much involved in fostering over taking care of a biological child. There are usually additional doctors appointments, therapists (psychological, occupational, etc), visitation with biological parents, etc.

They need help running errands, making meals, finding clothes, etc. So if we find that fostering's just not meant for us, we'll try to help out in those areas. I love to cook, so cooking up lots of good meals that can be frozen and reheated and in the oven, fresh bread, etc, are things I'd love doing. We could both help with the other things as well.

Fostering is hard. Fortunately, this training gives very realistic expectations because when we first started, my wife, I think, kind of idealized it and this has really kind of opened her eyes as to how hard it is.


tyler1128 t1_ja359tz wrote

It is absolutely hard. As a gay male, I've probably seen more of it than the average person, but it's so damn important.


momminhard t1_ja3h0q6 wrote

If only having children came with support


tyler1128 t1_ja3hfjz wrote

I really wish they did to a level that mattered. I don't even like kids nor do I want children of any capacity, but if you can't give them a good life, don't have them. Obviously I'm also an advocate of birth control. Children are expensive, and any prospective parent should understand that and have a plan to deal with the extra cost.


momminhard t1_ja3jqyx wrote

There used to be orphanages that took in kids that the parents couldn't support with the goal of the parents getting back on their feet and then getting their kids back. Foster care is a little like this but the kids are taken from their parents not given to the foster system. There's much more shame associated with it. Dropping your kid of at the orphanage was a last resort. You knew they wouldn't get the love and attention they need but they wouldn't die of starvation or exposure.


SerialStateLineXer t1_ja2xnqq wrote

It's important to note here that twin studies have found obesity to be very strongly heritable with minimal contribution from shared environment.

Since this study used mediation analysis, which can't be used to demonstrate causality, we should be skeptical of causal claims made by the authors.


muzukashidesuyo t1_ja30apj wrote

Are you suggesting obesity is just genetics? If so, why have obesity rates skyrocketed since the 90s/early 00s?


KuriousKhemicals t1_ja3792f wrote

What heritability actually shows is percent of variance is accounted for by genetics/inborn factors. How much variance there is can be environmental - that is, environment that is shared among all individuals in the study population, not just family environment. E.g. if weight was 100% heritable then genetic profile A would be 20th percentile and genetic profile B would be 90th percentile no matter what, but in 1920 that might have meant 110 pounds and 200 pounds, whereas today it might mean 130 pounds and 500 pounds. The actual weight of an individual still cannot be determined only by genetics.

Height is a good example to understand the counterintuitive math of heritability: it has become much more heritable over time because it's much more rare for people to experience malnutrition that impedes them from reaching their maximum genetic potential. The genetic pool hasn't changed significantly, and it has become more "genetically determined," but the increase in average height or the increase of height in subsequent generations of a family is very much due to environment.


muzukashidesuyo t1_ja3b495 wrote

Yes, basically genetics loads the gun, environment pulls the trigger. But the comment I responded to made it sound like genetics was the determining factor.


SerialStateLineXer t1_ja6vkwg wrote

What the other commenter said. Environment has made recent generations fatter than older generations, and makes people in rich countries fatter than people in poor countries, but in wealthy countries, within the current generation, genetics explains most of the variance in obesity, while upbringing explains very little.

This paper is based on a sample in Macao, and I don't know of any twin studies that were conducted in Macao specifically, so it's possible that they've found a causal factor that's peculiar to Macao or other wealthy East Asian countries. But we should be skeptical of this as a general causal explanation for obesity, given that it's contradicted by twin studies.

Edit: Note that the heritability of obesity doesn't mean that different people with the same lifestyle end up with wildly different BMIs because of genetics. Behavioral traits are also strongly heritable, and it's likely that much of the genetic contribution to obesity is mediated by genetic influences on lifestyle choices, rather than by genetic influences on metabolism.


Ilookbetterthanyou t1_ja1w7jl wrote

They needed research for this? Seems to me it's self-evident that people who grow up in turmoil suffer the effects later in life. Also seems self-evident that food, being that it's the one thing young people have some control over, is the main effect later in life.


SilverMedal4Life t1_ja26evf wrote

You'd think, but there are a lot of people out there who think that people who can't stop eating are simply gluttons with weak willpower and a lack of self-control.

Research like this helps to disprove it and guide both policy and treatment for people who have disordered eating - which is almost certainly more than half of Americans, given that 3/4ths of Americans are overweight or obese.


boozyperkins t1_ja1gofv wrote

I eat because I’m unhappy, and I’m unhappy because I eat. It’s a vicious cycle.


FyreWulff t1_ja26n7b wrote

It really messes with you later on. I tripped and dropped food off a plate when I was 35 (now 39) and broke out into tears because I had 'lost dinner' even though I could just go back and get more. It was so weird to have that feeling of despair come slamming back out of nowhere and disappear just as fast.


mmwood t1_ja387up wrote

That’s really sad to me - Atleast you can acknowledge it and maybe move past it. I have a friend who is like this and knowing that he was born to very young parents and probably had a radically different childhood than myself and it still affects him today hurts to think about (though he’s never opened up about anything other than have teenage parents)


FyreWulff t1_ja6ysow wrote

It wasn't out of embarassment either. Nobody was around. It was food I cooked myself and had plenty of.

I've largely moved past the original childhood stuff. I think a lot of us know it's not our fault and we try to overcome the food addiction but the brain be like that. It was just surreal to have a long buried feeling come bursting out like that.


Khfreak7526 t1_ja19983 wrote

We always moved around a lot never staying in one place for too long food was the only consistent thing in my life.


raisinghellwithtrees t1_ja1pzg4 wrote

We moved around a lot and often didn't have food available, or not enough food. I wonder if the study notes the difference between chaotic households with food and those without.


Bikesandbakeries t1_ja1tst2 wrote

I can pinpoint the start of my life long issues to the first move. A switch def got flipped. I wish someone would have addressed it. It got worse each move. As a teen it swung from starvation and extreme weight loss to binging. In fact every move as a late teen to now involved a pattern of extreme loss/low weight to start with… i just realized huh.


snafu607 t1_ja1veb3 wrote

Addiction hell. I'll die if I don't get my food fix on the reg.


Antaries9000 t1_ja2gsv8 wrote

Food addiction is so crazy, for years I was in its total grip and then had a health problem which forced me to eat normally and it wasn't actually difficult at all. It's all a tottal mental prison, I couldn't get out out of it before this happens, I don't know if anyone can..


agarimoo t1_ja47chh wrote

I’m (positively) surprised you didn’t find it difficult. I’m dealing with some health issues right no and even if I know I should stay away from gluten, sugar and dairy I still find it so hard to resist. Can you share any tips?


Antaries9000 t1_ja4g10n wrote

I had very serious binge eating disorder, it was like a huge slow-moving hurricane, I got somewhat ravaged by but the hurricane is slightly moved away from me. I developed a stomach issue, where my stomach would just hurt if it got overfull, still undiagnosed, I do have a Ehlers-Danlos syndrome which might contribute. It became a chronic thing I basically couldn't binge but if I did I would have stomach pain for many days. Because of this I did go out the habit of bingeing. They get me wrong I still tried to. In fact I had the regular smaller sized meals. I had to learn to be really careful if I was eating out and there was a lot of delicious food. Also a little later I developed ulcerative colitis, the type of disease I got makes me prone to constipation rather than going several times a day. This meant I couldn't afford to be constipated because hard stools would tear up my colon, and I would get bleeding and mucus.

Because of my bowel issue, stomach issue I was forced to become healthy and Eat better, and it was in no way hard at all. I thought I'd be missing out but actually the peace of mind of not being on some blood sugar rollercoaster is really pleasant. Many ways you like the rollercoaster because it took up all my attention help me escape my problems.

But before I got the health problems I just could not stop food bingeing, it was a total prison when I had no choice it was so easy. I don't know how this helps anyone, Other than to say the addiction is all in the brain. Possibly it helps to have some major event, doesn't have to be health but may be moving to a different place, getting a different job. I don't know but wishing everyone the very best, good luck.

I do have a few replacement addictions, mostly Internet -related, life is a constant battle but it's possible to have great victories as well.


agarimoo t1_ja5ok43 wrote

Thank you for sharing your story. I believe food addiction is way more common than we think but people are just ashamed to talk about it so, hearing other people’s stories always helps. I’m so glad you got over it and I hope your health is great now. Have a lovely day


Malumeze86 t1_ja23m8d wrote

I'm addicted to oxygen AND water.

It's a hard life.


BunsOfAluminum t1_ja1w8fd wrote

Huh... And all this time figured it was because my mom would stand over me and hit me on the head until I ate all of my food.


bisforbenis t1_ja1wtg3 wrote

Seriously if you want to see a lot more of this kind of study, look at all the stuff linked to ACE scores. We’d already linked higher ACE scores to obesity so this isn’t surprising


theprozacfairy t1_ja20qlv wrote

ACE really only paints a small picture of actual childhood trauma. I had a sibling who had severe medical problems, frequent hospitalizations, and died when I was a teenager, which is not registered at all on the test. I have a friend who was repeatedly molested by a sibling two years older than her - also zero points. Another friend nearly died of cancer as a kid, but that's not on there, either. IDK why they made it so narrow. I mean, I know they can't put every trauma on there. But it feels like a lot is left off.


SilverMedal4Life t1_ja26yyu wrote

I imagine it's because the research isn't there for it. It makes intuitive sense that losing siblings and seeing the trauma of those close to you would cause long-lasting traumatic effects, but there's a standard of scientific rigor that's gotta be kept for this type of psychological research - family court cases might come down to ACE scores, and so the research has got to be robust.


bisforbenis t1_ja2cjzt wrote

I think ACE stuff really is chosen because it’s stuff backed by published research and encompasses more common occurrences

I think it holds value in that it paints a clear, simple picture that childhood trauma directly links to a lot of measurable health or social problems that maybe otherwise people would be unlikely to relate to childhood trauma

I agree it would be nice to include more things in it, and perhaps that will happen eventually. I feel it’s especially odd how it specifies someone at least 5 years older for sexual abuse, I’m sure there’s a reason for that that I’m missing, but it’s an odd limitation.

As for omitting health problems, I’d suspect it’s due to that being a different type of trauma than some other things, as it’s not really relational trauma while all the other stuff is, which while trauma in itself, maybe makes sense to consider separately and just study that one on its own. Loss of a family member perhaps is the same way, worthy of looking into how it impacts people of course, but perhaps not something you want to lump in with other relational trauma. I’d argue that a lot of ACE stuff focuses on some kind of betrayal of trust, where you counted on someone close to you for love and stability and they betrayed it, likely leading to a lot of problems trusting others or letting others get close in a way these things don’t. It’s not that these things are any less traumatic, but they aren’t things that drive home a “I can’t trust other people not to harm me” message like all the ACE stuff does


Elivandersys t1_ja2wfem wrote

Relational trauma absolutely occurs when there are major familial health issues. Kids get left behind emotionally. I didn't have help processing my fear, guilt, and anger over my brother's health issues. And I didn't have anyone spending the 1-1 time with me on the good stuff, either. My parents did their best, but life was very different for all of us after my brother was born.


theprozacfairy t1_ja44f30 wrote

Having a sibling with severe medical problems definitely causes relational trauma. Less time & attention to go around. My other sister and I fought like crazy, but never with my little sister, so we ended up taking things out on each other when we were mad at her or our parents, etc. I lived in a different world from all the other kids at school because I was worried about real, grown-up problems like insurance not paying for necessary medications or equipment. No one else understood me. It definitely affects trust and the ability to get close with others.


Elivandersys t1_ja2w4u8 wrote

Yeah, I've thought about that, too. My brother has spina bifida. I went from being the baby to basically being shuttled aside because his health issues were so profound. My husband and his mother and brother were emotionally abused throughout his childhood. His brother ran away at 16 and became a drug addict. None of these things are represented on the ACE test.


theprozacfairy t1_ja4gq6i wrote

The emotional abuse would register on the ACE test, if the dad yelled, swore at, or insulted them frequently, or ever threatened physical harm. Nothing else, though.


Elivandersys t1_ja4rnom wrote

Except his version was to pretend they didn't exist. My husband once went two months without his dad acknowledging his existence because as a 9 year old, he ran with his dad's glasses in his hand and tripped, after being told to walk. Glasses weren't damaged at all, btw.


Daddyssillypuppy t1_ja2iq78 wrote

The 9 ACEs included are just the most common occurring adverse childhood experiences that they studied. It's very common to witness your mum being abused versus having a sibling die after prolonged medical care.

The ACE list is not meant to be an exhaustive list of all the bad things that happen in childhood that cause issues later in life. Just the 9 most common ones amongst the study participants.


theprozacfairy t1_ja47c5c wrote

Do you have a source on that? It’s not even mentioned in my public health textbooks. Just that these are childhood traumas that still affect you later in life. You’d think there wouldn’t be that 5 year age restriction on sexual abuse, in that case, in order to cast a wider net.

But given that ACE is just the most common, I would still rather obesity and food addiction are studied beyond just ACE scores. There could be a lot of specific factors to obesity outside their scope.


Daddyssillypuppy t1_ja69is9 wrote

The source was the original scientific journal article mentioning ACE scores.


Antaries9000 t1_ja2gn15 wrote

Wow that is so totally true. It's like the only way to control your happiness growing up in an unstable environment.


MollyPW t1_ja2rt46 wrote

This is not a surprise to anyone who's seen any of my 600lb life. So many of them had terrible, neglectful and often abusive childhoods.


tharussianphil t1_ja26fi2 wrote

Damn I guess mom said it was my turn to feel personally attacked


Jeoff51 t1_ja216hb wrote

i think you would find that all addictions and bad behaviors would link to bad childhoods.

they did research to see if water was wet


joalheagney t1_ja2as73 wrote

As someone who went through childhood abuse, I can tell you that the food thing is very much more primal.

I still have memories 30 years later of trying to choke down meals with my throat cramped tight with fear and tears because my asshole father decided to kick off. :/


catsandraj t1_ja42n8w wrote

Something seeming to be common sense isn't the same as 7scientific investigation. Lots of things seem intuitively true but aren't, and foundational research paves the way for more complex studies. You can't base a study on something that seems about right, but you can base it on previously published research that supports your premise.


Spiritmolecule30 t1_ja3880n wrote

My wife is a travel nurse and we travel every 6 months to a year with our 2 children (ages 4 and 7). Are we doing damage to our children even if they appear happy?


BabyLegsOShanahan t1_ja3tev9 wrote

According to Reddit, if you’re overweight it’s because you’re a loser who can’t control themselves.


gimme_alt_girls t1_ja2xtdn wrote

I have dated 2 girls that grew up as orphans, and this is actually something I’ve noticed a bit myself


Th3LastRebel t1_ja3mcbd wrote

This study seems to have been done by someone who doesn't understand what food insecurity is.

Food insecurity is causation; unpredictability is just a bonus trauma for those who already have food insecurity.

Edited to add: food insecurity to also include not having meals that can be eaten comfortably, or lack consistency of the quality, texture or autonomy of having choices in the food being eaten.

Being forced or coerced to eat food that is repulsive or being forced to eat when not hungry/being denied food when hungry is all part of food insecurity.

It's one thing to have access to food, it's another to have access to food that one can actually not be miserable eating.


StuartGotz t1_ja5os39 wrote

Causation vs correlation issue here due to self-selection bias.


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