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hypnotictopic t1_jag9llh wrote

Right middle occipital gyrus, for those who don't want to click.

It's responsible for object recognition.


malevolentslime t1_jagqcct wrote

> The middle occipital gyrus (MOG) was observed in a study of the early blind, which showed that it was activated more during spatial than nonspatial tactile and auditory tasks.[7] Early blind people have an occipital cortex that is incorporates more senses than people with standard vision, but the MOG still keeps its functional role in processing space around a person.[7]

I wonder if that is why people say they feel "out of their body" /watching from afar during sexual assaults - that area of their brain that is responsible for spatial awareness is experiencing damage/less connectivity


Failp0 t1_jahmlsq wrote

That's called dissociation. When your body/brain experiences such severe trauma you can't get away from, it's a survival skill. Your brain forceably takes control and keeps you "away" to protect you. Now the mechanics I'm not sure of, what part of the brain etc. Everyone Dissociates, maybe you've heard of highway hypnosis. That's a type of dissociation. The problem is if it keeps happening, the type of trauma that usually does, it basically creates a form of brain damage and your unable to regulate the dissociation. Which is how dissociative disorders are formed.


tringle1 t1_jaho02y wrote

That might explain why I would dissociate so hard during school going through the wrong puberty and being bullied constantly and also having abusive parents. When my therapist pointed out that I never had a single space that I felt totally safe in as a child, I started crying and I didn’t even fully understand what they were saying yet. Yeah I have ADHD, I was always a little spacey, but not for 20 minutes at a time


suleimaaz t1_jahu4yd wrote

Does it eventually go away if someone is safe for long enough? Can the brain reset the connections it made in that time?


hellfae t1_jais7a1 wrote

>>>EMDR is AMAZING for this. I had one traumatic experience as a kid, was SA'd by my moms boyfriend at 5. And I do emdr weekly with my therapist on the phone, while I watch the ball go back and forth on my laptop and do bilateral tapping on my head/body. It brings traumatic experiences from a 10 to a 0 in terms of distress, turns down how effected we are by triggers in daily life, helps with dissociation/getting back into our body, helps remove trapped emotions in the body, and offers divine perspective we couldnt see ourselves while untangling knots in the brain and actually scientifically rewiring our neurotransmitter pathways for new habits and thoughts. It aint easy, you have to physically, psychologically, and emotionally be in a safe enough place to literally step into and walk through the past, but if you can and have a good therapist you trust it is lifechanging. Also hot baths are great afterwards. A jog, you take a day for self care to rewire and then back to normal life until next session. Its one of the most advanced forms of therapy available, and one of the only for complex-ptsd. Helps my ocd a lot too. Sorry to interject just wanted to put that as an answer to the above question, because it is a specific answer.


Failp0 t1_jahwdud wrote

Everyone and every situation is different, so I couldn't give you an accurate answer to that. I do know that it is an extremely wide umbrella. Dissociation is actually something Everyone experiences at some point. If it doesn't happen alot, there's a better chance of being unaffected. Like highway hypnosis. It might freak you out after it happens but you generally shake it off and be more aware. Whereas a person who experiences repeated trauma or maybe even a threatening type of trauma will have a greater likelihood of being affected and needing treatment. And depending on the person and how, if, they get treatment what treatments they do, what their support circles look like, what, if any, resources do they have access to. So really, that's where the variables really come into play but on spectrum, Dissociation can be resolved. On the other spectrum, depending on circumstance worst case it cant and its more about management than trying to cure. I assume there's way better info though than I can give you here. This is bare bones.


malevolentslime t1_jahygax wrote

The original commenter doesn't know, you shouldn't rely on them. I made a response comment on why they are incorrectly applying this information


EnjoyLifeorDieTryin t1_jahqx1w wrote

No its called tonic immobility its the bodys response to extreme danger, when flight and fight aren’t possible your body goes into freeze mode


malevolentslime t1_jahz3qk wrote

It's honestly neither, this is a newly described and specific phenomenon to child sexual assault per the original article. Not the case in other forms of danger.


EnjoyLifeorDieTryin t1_jahzh1h wrote

Yeah i was just adding info on the other mentioned phenomenon in which i have a little knowledge, this seems to he a different more permanent change in the brain


Failp0 t1_jahriga wrote

Freeze mode is part of the fight or flight mode. It's not usually tacked on, though I should have. Dissociation is the out of body experience you feel triggered from the trauma and subsequent fight, flight or freeze mode. Tonic immobility would be a symptom of freeze mode specifically. I encourage you to google dissociation. It's fascinating what the brain can do in severe traumatic situations to help us survive.


EnjoyLifeorDieTryin t1_jahskn9 wrote

Ive had to do a lot of research unfortunately but i do think this phenomenon helped my partner be able to move on quicker because she only remembers what happened up until the freeze.


uberneoconcert t1_jaj69y7 wrote

Also happens for babies suffering from the "cry it out" method. No, they don't just give up and go to sleep, they dissociate rather than continue to face the reality nobody is there to keep them safe, and then fall asleep without realizing it. The same way kids do when their parents are arguing.


malevolentslime t1_jahy9zd wrote

Link the study stating that dissociative episodes are linked with that area of the brain. Or link a study that a drug that induces dissociation(eg ketamine) is active in that specific area of the brain. Until you do, no, it's not dissociation, which could be a complex series of events. Dissociation happens during all types of abuse whereas this specific brain abnormality only happens with child sexual abuse, not other types of abuse. It's not just dissociation and you should stop spreading misinformation


Failp0 t1_jahyyk0 wrote

I never did say it was linked with that area of the brain. I specifically said I DIDNT know which area of the brain dissociation was from. I simply replying to the original commenter what the out of body feeling experience was. And I never said anything about drugs. For Pete's sake, calm down.


malevolentslime t1_jahzjva wrote

I am the og commentor about out of body experiences - and no, it's NOT just dissociation as I have repeatedly told you. Link a study supporting that claim. That's why I brought up ketamine, which induces dissociation (and is used medically for this), to help you find a source. I doubt you will. Any source.

No, you're over here telling people with mental illness a bunch of lies, I'm not cool with it. You're wrong and your interpretation is wrong.


Failp0 t1_jai0hbw wrote

Nothing I told you about dissociation is wrong. I stated everything I stated, and yet you didn't read my comment through and got a hair up your ass. As someone with the mental illness myself and having a therapy team of doctors for years now, I simply told you the information on dissociation. All credible verifiable facts. I STATED the other portions that I didn't know (for this exact hateful ass unnecessary reason), you could have just said "oh for dissociation it's this part of the brain, for this part of the brain it's for this."

Stop acting like I have said nothing verifiable by a simple google search when really you can't just hold a reasonable conversation and have to go all ridiculous.


Discount_gentleman t1_jaiq3lj wrote

We focus on what is important to survival, and for victims of this type of trauma, objects aren't the threats or resources. Threats or resources are people and their emotional states. I suspect this is related that I've repeatedly noticed, that also anyone who calls themself an "empath" has childhood trauma. They aren't sensitive or blessed or naturally in tune with the universe, they are simply hyper-reactive to a certain thing as a method of survival.


hellfae t1_jaivcsd wrote

Sometimes it's both. Look this sounds really woo, I work in healthcare in Berkeley CA. I'm a childhood SA survivor. And in 2008-2012 I lived in Calistoga on Susan Boswicks ranch as her personal assistant, the founder of Berkleley Psyschic Institutes and attended the Santa Rosa BPI, I have an extended clairvoyant certification and a very successful private practice on the side of my main career. I have also co-run the Berkeley Essex Goddess Temple/Redwood Tubs for two decades.

I once had a deep soul reading done and was told I'd chosen to make childhood VERY hard for myself. Before birth, my soul made this choice, for the sake of vibrational/spiritual/human growth. One of my first memories of the angels I work with was them taking me from my body when I was assaulted by my moms boyfriend at age 5. It's also the first/only time I dissociated fully out of my body, and was a moment in which I incurred immeasurable brain and psychological damage. My first memories of angels are being on the table in heart surgery before that, I'm a congenital heart patient and had another heart surgery last year in april, the surgeries deepen my mediumship skills, and I'm able to help a LOT of people in my private clairvoyant practice. I don't have any reason to convince you or mind if you don't believe me, of course that's alright. But I think maybe for the matter of those who feel there is some connection between their intuition and their childhood trauma, for those who maybe feel spirit has healed them in immaginable ways no matter how far they have left to go, keep going, everything is energy, not everything is physical, we get one life, be as powerful and beautiful and present as you can be, every day we can become more whole and shine brighter regardless of the darkness we have had to pass through. There is a purpose in the growth of this world and humanity. And you are not alone.




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TruthSeekr222 t1_jag5rix wrote

Another way we are fucked without our permission.


tornpentacle t1_jagkbzd wrote

This is a really awful and offensive joke to make. Childhood sexual abuse is not something to joke about. It might be a good idea to reexamine how your words and actions can affect victims.


Krypson t1_jagpfge wrote

As someone who was sexually abused often as a child. Humor is the only thing that got me through it. I’m sorry if you went through something too but let people have their coping mechanisms. Humor is a lot better than the alternative suicidal ideation and suffering that comes with taking it so heavily. It’s a serious issue yes, but making it so heavy perpetuates the idea of victimhood. We are survivors, not victims.


Smol_Fairy t1_jagol4i wrote

I didn't read it as a joke. To me it felt like a serious statement rather than a wordplay. But I can see how you would see it otherwise.


Some_Gun_Nut t1_jagrbtv wrote

I too was molested as a child. Good thing I mostly black out when I try to remember it, I imagine it would be a genuine pain in the ass to actually remember.

Trust me when I say some of us just have very dark senses of humor, and that's okay.


kompergator t1_jagwqpg wrote

How can you be on this subreddit and not realise the important role humour plays in coping strategies?


monsterosaleviosa t1_jahfm9j wrote

You’re responding to someone who said “we”. People are allowed to speak to their own situations in whatever way they choose. You’re not helping with this behavior.


Brasscogs t1_jagoiuo wrote

For those that didn’t read the article and were thinking the same thing as me:

They found that the grey matter volume was significantly lower in those who suffered sexual abuse than all other participants, including those who suffered non-sexual childhood abuse.


lugdunum_burdigala t1_jagq32h wrote

I know these kind of brain morphometry analyses (I published an article using them). I would not trust the results too much. Those analyses are really straight-forward to setup once you have access to a MRI dataset, which makes them very popular. It can be easy to get a significantly positive result when you toy with the statistical thresholding techniques, especially with a rather low sample-size which is the case here with the sub-group "depression + child sex abuse".

Also it feels strange that the brain region specifically associated with child sex abuse would be in the occipital cortex, which is responsible for visual processing. The authors probably had to make mental gymnastics in the discussion to justify this piece of results.

I would wait for other studies to confirm this before having any opinion on this.


El_Sephiroth t1_jahak0c wrote

In the paper they talk about other studies who found the same just without one of the comparison. I follow your train of thought on the rest: skeptical but not opposed to it being true.


Aware-Anywhere9086 t1_jagarem wrote

one of many reasons my IQ probably sucks, but just one of many. i suspect most of us were probably at high risk to lose brain volume because of other stuff connected to above ^, stress, bad environment, etc...


DiligentComposer9200 t1_jaggcxx wrote

This is amazing which means it can be manipulated to work correctly but the trauma must be reversed somehow... Psychedelics? With psychotherapy? Hmm


n3w4cc01_1nt t1_jah7c8e wrote

oxytocin most likely


>Does oxytocin rewire the brain?

Oxytocin operates through both synaptic and cellular plasticity mechanisms to rewire brain circuitry to increase neuronal representation of sensory stimuli. This increased sensory salience facilitates both the formation and maintenance of complex behaviors.


Cheezbu20 t1_jagpp1x wrote

Psychedelics make everything worse. Stop worshipping it


DiligentComposer9200 t1_jagpx7d wrote

Well, no not true. In a medical care treatment, it can have profound effects on making new connections in the brain. Then pair with a professional in psychotherapy and you have yourself a profound experience.


Free_Investigator952 t1_jagtzxx wrote

That's not true mushrooms and other methods like ayahuasca have shown much improvement in many subjects with PTSD or other traumas. I'm not saying get them off the street but in controlled environments they have done wonders for people there's plenty of evidence already showing this.


Art0fRuinN23 t1_jagapb8 wrote

I wasn't sexually abused. I'm just dumb AF.


silverclovd t1_jagb87q wrote

Mmhmm.. So basically, your parents fucked, fucked up & fucked you up!


SoYouveHeard t1_jagbtle wrote

The amount of dark humor in here is absolutely outstanding.


dumnezero t1_jagpwzd wrote

Increase intelligence by reading, start with the article


PsychiatricSD t1_jah3ki7 wrote

I was sexually abused as a kid and now I have bipolar which is the result of having less brain matter.....I wonder if that's connected, since child abuse is also related to bipolar.


-downtone_ t1_jai7ztp wrote

In my case it was related to low GABA. The primary inhibitory neurotransmitter. Both my father and myself diagnosed bipolar. Both related to low GABA. He then died from ALS, also caused by prolonged low GABA. In both our cases, it's a result of GABA:glutamate ratio. With no inhibition, you have bipolar like symptoms. Just saying.


smuggles908 t1_jaibz3f wrote

Trauma has also been shown to activate DNA that leads to brain diseases.


-downtone_ t1_jaid4ib wrote

Yep. My father was a combat wounded vietnam veteran. Took eight rounds and had his leg completely shredded by mortar shrapnel. Seems it can also be passed genetically so there is more to it than currently understood.


smuggles908 t1_jairng4 wrote

Research has shown that it does pass genetically yea.


Cucumburrito t1_jahh9xp wrote

I believe this. I was a straight-A student with a promising athletic career ahead of me before it happened. Was truly never the same in any way


Muted_Sorts t1_jajgwod wrote

The paper points out the following areas: "Participants who experienced childhood sexual abuse showed a significantly smaller cortical gray matter volume in the right middle occipital gyrus, right pars orbitalis, left superior parietal lobule and left pars triangularis regions of the brain compared to participants who did not experience childhood sexual abuse (in the total sample)."“Moreover, we observed a reduced volume in the right anterior cingulate gyrus in patients with major depressive disorder compared to that in healthy participants,” they continued. “While childhood sexual abuse and major depressive disorder affected the cortical volume of the right middle occipital gyrus and anterior cingulate gyrus, respectively, post-hoc analyses showed that even patients in the major depressive disorder group who were exposed to childhood sexual abuse showed a pronounced decrease in the right middle occipital gyrus volume.”

Anterior cingulate gyrus controls behavior regulation, including emotion processing and vocalization of emotion. It's linked to social cognition and our pro-social capacity.

If I understand the article and paper correctly, after suffering sexual abuse, a child's brain has a hard time grounding itself spatially, and is in perpetual fight-or-flight mode. More things are perceived as threats when one cannot ground oneself or others visuospatially. Perspective taking is negatively impacted, as the brain is at reduced capacity to link to working memory and update perception (i.e., once a threat always a threat). Attention regulation is impacted. This helps explain the link to borderline personality disorder and panic disorders, and why victims have a hard time talking about their trauma. The brain changed; it's really not their fault. And it points to PTSD/cPTSD stemming from child sexual abuse as a possible source of widespread ADHD misdiagnoses. It can also help explain one's susceptibility to cults, due to their rigid, repetitive structure; it's predictable, and that predictability is perceived as safe even when it's objectively not.

So then, what's the treatment? Can TMS help rebuild and strengthen pathways to middle occipital gyrus?


n3w4cc01_1nt t1_jah726i wrote

it's been known for a while that oxytocin helps the brain grow


>Emerging evidence shows that, during early brain development, oxytocin helps to organize neural circuits in the brain and that these organizational effects may help the brain develop the capacity to execute sex-specific and context-appropriate social behaviors later in life.


so if oxytocin and a stable environment isn't there it's kind of obvious that the persons brain would develop differently or be more geared towards flight or fight.


angelcake t1_jahz92r wrote

There’s a book called “the body keeps the score” that discusses the changes in the brain from childhood abuse. It’s fascinating reading. The author, Bessel Van Der Kolk was one of the pioneers who recognized PTSD and push to have a big part of the DSM. There’s actually imaging in the book showing different areas impacted by trauma.


whatiftheyrewrong t1_jaju7o6 wrote

I know someone who endured horrific abuse in childhood and they are face blind. This is fascinating. And heartbreaking.


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Adam-Ridens t1_jahss7j wrote

So is this stating that the child who gets abused grows up to make the same mistake? Like a revolving door phenomenona?


malevolentslime t1_jai0ktp wrote

Nope, not saying that whatsoever


Adam-Ridens t1_jai3hk1 wrote

Kinda is, gray matter isnthought to be correlated with intelligence, if reading this correctly, a hypothesis like mine could be true.

From my perspective, I'm glad to hear yours.


malevolentslime t1_jai3tbe wrote

There's nothing stating that this brain anomaly is hereditary. You're bringing up ancient scientific ideas from before Darwin. No perspective, there's absolutely no proof with this claim you made.


Adam-Ridens t1_jaj7sme wrote

I didn't claim to know anything, never even mentioned genetics, I made a speculation. I'm not fighting with you, nor do I even want to talk to you anymore.


Cheezbu20 t1_jagpx4r wrote

I think exposing child to adult content will have negative influence on them too. It is not very different from abuse. Western world lately very much normalizes underage access to adult stuff with their entertaiment means. Middle schoolers should not know about this topic. Even high school should be questionable.