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intrepidnonce t1_je95ezy wrote

When the manipulation is causing harm to you or others.

There is nothing wrong with manipulating yourself or others to be more productive, to engage in win win, mutually beneficial outcomes, and so on. It becomes pathological when you are using manipulation to essentially steal from others, engaging them in scenarios where you disproportionately benefit at their cost, or/and where you harm yourself.


tornpentacle t1_je9ib9r wrote

What you're talking about at the beginning isn't manipulation


More-Grocery-1858 t1_jeamtxe wrote

It's interesting because when dealing with inanimate objects, the term manipulation is pretty neutral. It's only when we refer to people that the term manipulation takes on a negative implication.

I think it's the lack of reciprocity that's the difference. If someone manipulates me to be more productive at work, but I don't see any benefit in return, it's different than if I get a raise or a bonus as a result.

Even if I do get a raise or bonus, the manipulation can violate a personal boundary, and as a result, have mixed positive and negative consequences.