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Finally. I send all my emotions to my gut. Stupid body

And people wonder why they’re depressed as they eat their steady diet of processed garbage.

Eff those cells and nerves.

I know, not helpful.

Thats why we have physical responses like "butterflies in the stomach" for certain mental states like infatuation or stress?

Directly linking the nerve pathway to a syndrome like IBS is risky in my mind. IBS diagnosises are given out like candy as well as a buffet of different treatments, and then saying "you likely have IBS, try repressing your main channel between gut and brain" seems like a recipe for longer term health issues.

Not saying the study is bad or the conclusions about the importance of this pathway, but the immediate treatment links that a title like this suggests are not so great.

I say this as someone that suffers from IBD, likely recurrent SIBO, and possibly some IBS mechanism separate to the former 2 issues. No matter what treatment I receive, I still have constant recurrent pain, but I would still be hesitant to inhibit this pathway directly...

I agree, I don't think a treatment that shuts down that brain gut communication is a healthy solution.

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That’s not what this study is suggesting. And we already know IBS is a syndrome related to disordered gut-brain interaction - that’s why the umbrella terminology for these conditions is literally “disorders of gut-brain interaction”.

This study shines a closer light on the specific cellular mechanisms that might be involved in IBS discomfort/pain, which provides targets for specific therapies at the level of the gut - they are specifically looking at hyperactivation of enterochromaffin cells, which are neuronal cells embedded in the gut wall, that then signal to gut neurons and ultimately produce visceral pain reactions.

Edit: the serotonin signalling modulator they use as proof-of-principle in the model is alosetron, which is only used in very severe IBS in women (it was withdrawn from all other indications due to side effects). Trust me - they are not suggesting that everyone take systemic alosetron, they are not stupid:

>Data presented here also support a role for local, rather than systemic serotonergic signalling at the interface between EC cells and mucosal afferents, consistent with recent suggestions that primary afferent nerve fibres form synapse-like associations with enteroendocrine cells. Alosetron, which is approved for the treatment of severe IBS with diarrhoea in women39, has been proposed to exert its analgesic effect centrally or through inhibition of high-threshold nociceptors in the gut wall. We propose an alternative or further mechanism to account for this sex-biased analgesic effect, namely one involving modulation of serotonergic signalling at EC cell–mucosal afferent circuits.

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might explain migranes

No, that's the effect of adrenaline release

So when you have a gut feeling, you're actually having a gut feeling. I wonder if these nerve clusters are left over from the time when we were worms with multiple brains.

> And we already know IBS is a syndrome related to disordered gut-brain interaction

I respectfully have to take issue with this statement.

We know that modulation of neurochemicals can modulate GI symptoms, and/or perception of GI symptoms in certain patients and we know that there is a connection between certain kinds of gut-brain signaling, but to say that this is the original causal mechanism behind IBS isn’t founded. It’s one proposed model of IBS, one of many.

Just proving the concept that these pathways are active in GI symptom perception doesn’t prove that this is the root cause. It merely proves that these pathways can be leveraged as potential treatments.

I have cyclical vomiting syndrome, triggered by anxiety. This kind of breakthrough is super important for people that suffer CVS.

You’re right that “know” is being overworked in my initial statement. But, insofar as DGBI is a broad church of mechanisms from stimuli to neuronal function to the brain, and DGBI is the terminology employed by the body defining IBS, there really aren’t any major competing theories any more.

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It's funny... I am reading this while my anixety is through the roof and my ibs is acting up... by funny I mean I'm sad.

i always assumed it was because the neurons in your gut work in tandem with the neuron in your brain. the guy has the second most amount of neurons in the body.

in my mind that's why we get "gut feelings" and would explain butterflies and why we thought love was any abdomen thing rather than a brain thing

Interesting fact, you can actually have a migraine in your stomach. My son has had stomach issues we’ve been trying to address with his doctor and this is one of the things we tried to control with a certain medication.

I am oversensitive to gluten. I get anxiety when I accidentally eat gluten. It's manifests as panic attack and after a while I become really fatigued. A few years ago I realized the cause of this an my life is so much better when I avoid gluten. Now I have much more energy and I don't have a constant lingering anxiety

I have had a similar experience with a gluten allergy and anxiety/panic

Man I'd love this to be a simple, cost effective fix.

Except that IBS is a big pot doctors throw people into when they don’t have any other easy answers. Some studies suggest a massive overlap with SIBO which really puts into question if this isn’t a mine field of misdiagnosis and lack of fundamental understanding of what’s going on in these patients.

I experienced exactly this first hand until now.

>there really aren’t any major competing theories any more.

This is false. Food intolerances, medication side effects, SIBO and motility issues are all potential underlying causes of IBS other that neurochemical imbalances.

Where is your source of a major medical body declaring that DGBI is the sole cause of IBS to the exclusion of all others?

Hang in there, anxiety sucks.

Oh, a study! On the front page of reddit?

​

What percentage of the studies hold up over two years? Why do you think this may be related to more 'junk' science? What do you know about the link of eating chocolate and the rate of weight loss?

Finally. Since I was a kid. The walk down the driveway home having bad grades was a fart fest.

So this could explain my IBS and anxiety? Neat.

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Pure speculation here. I wonder if some anxieties arise from gut dysbiosis or other issues as a mechanism to warn that things are wrong and changes need to be made.

I have been working on healing my gut to cure my anxiety, and it’s really really working. I’m thrilled. It’s pretty amazing really.

This is what I believe! I think anxiety is a symptom and not an issue in itself- now I’m healing my gut issues (SIBO and dysbiosis) my anxiety is like better everyday - haven’t had a panic attack in months and I almost feel normal after pretty severe anxiety and borderline agoraphobia. Pretty nice.

Hi I’m curious to know what has helped heal your gut?

Quit alcohol and coffee, went on a low FODMAP diet and am doing two months of herbal antimicrobials followed by two months of glucosamine and N acetyl glucosamine and targeted probiotics. I am also taking supplements to help my body create more bile to help digestion (herbal bitters and tumeric.) I did the GI Map test to figure out what was up with my microbiome and other things - learned I have SIBO, dysbiosis and a gluten allergy.

Thank you for sharing your experience!

I wonder if this is why intermittent fasting reduces anxiety?

You mean…like the vagus nerve?

Edit: biohackers have anecdotally already known everything the article says, in particular the benefits of SCFA’s.

It’s always weird when science announces something entire communities of people already know.

That's... That's how science works...

Purely anecdotal, but my anxiety and depression are both much easier to manage when I'm taking the good probiotics. Not a silver bullet by any means, but a piece of the puzzle.

Recently my anxiety has vanished and funny enough my diet change in the last 6 months

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What is your approach, and what has worked for you?

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How did it change? Any pointer?

Can you tell me more about the GI map test? What does it do and how does it help diagnose what may be wrong?

I always had bloating issues (I fart an INSANE amount after I eat) and also have anxiety. So I would love to start looking into this.

What are the good priobotics?

If what we eat creates the microbiome, then what are we eating to create those cells.

Mainly I reduced sugar and junk food.

Sugar causes a lot of problems.

I was 40 before I understood the connection between a visceral response and a gut reaction. Pretty sure I was considering the term eviscerate when I figured it out.

My dear, sweet, highly qualified legal assistant of over 30 years died at 78 due to a fall at home during the covid-19 stay at home era. I wish you could see her file about the Veteran husband she had lost 20 years ago as it related to the connection between his closed head injury received while firing an artillery shell and his Crohn's disease.

We never made the connection scientifically, but she always suspected there was one, at least in terms of aggravation of symptoms.

> gluten

fwiw. Never celiac as a child through my early 20's.... then things slowly changed and started having issues that i chalked up to aging and not something else.

I know this from personal experience far to well. It took me decades to figure out for myself and my own body. We're all different but...

Anti-biotics can cause gluten intolerance that can lead to celiac and IBS responses and diagnoses and positive tests across the board.

A standard course of anti-biotics is enough to completely screw the gut microbiome and for me, cause celiac and often ibs responses. Then a weird cycle can happen when dealing with many doctors to treat the different symptoms that prolongs the problem.

I can reset via specific probiotics and slowly re-introducing it. It takes me about 3 to 5 five months to reset, dependent on how long i had to take the antibiotics. I worked with some PhD folks as a "hail mary" before i said goodbye to certain foods forever.

Most folks seem to have gluten issues, they just don't realize it because it can present in many manners. Headspace is a big part of most people's responses.

I like my occasional pizza and soughdough to much, and I love a good burrito, and screw the medical world that told me I could not keep enjoying these things.

DGBI terminology came with Rome IV, which also saw the prevalence of IBS halve due to exclusion of edge cases. These issues you list are not outside of DGBI mechanisms - they are inside it.

I agree to some extent in practice, but recent changes to diagnostic criteria (ie Rome IV, and shortly Rome V) and a shift towards positive diagnosis are reducing the number of patients defined as having IBS.

There is certainly an overlap with conditions like SIBO, but as I said to another commenter, these are mechanisms within the DGBI umbrella given the need for visceral overreactivity to convey symptoms.

Which probiotics?

Actually I think a lot of what is diagnosed as irritable bowel syndrome is actually pancreatic enzyme insufficiency.

I second the question, which probiotics?

I'm about to go on antibiotics for SIBO.

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I had a spike in anxiety related to a person I didn’t want to see. Sure enough, my guts went into full IBS mode and took me out for a couple of days. Thanks, IBS!

It’s not. People used to tell me that maybe I was making myself sick by worrying about my gut. But certain foods used to ruin my day whereas others didn’t

I have a naturopathic doctor and I did a GI MAP test and I am doing herbal antimicrobials, diet modification, probiotics and supplements to heal the lining of my gut. So basically test / kill bad bacteria/ re populate with good bacteria and then heal gut lining.

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i dont really know what that means, but I am very interested. I get terrible migranes where I partially lose the ability to speak, and have uncontrollable erratic body movements (not a seizure though, I am still 'in control'). But the symptoms often will not stop until I puke. sometimes... repeatedly, but then it seems to calm down.

I really wish I could figure it out, but it seems very much stomach related for me, as I basically stop processing food and water before the onset of symptoms and get dehydrated. Sometimes its triggered by my own dumbness like not eating all day, but I haven't figured out a definitive pattern. Thankfully its rare for me. I feel bad for people who have to deal with this weekly.

Yeah I've spent a ton of money and a few years chasing a fix to IBS and the best I got was a heat pack and tea.

Dr. Amy Myers (and others) recommends soil based probiotics for SIBO. Those are what I always use, and it helps me a lot.

I really don’t understand the “migraine in the stomach” either, part but I can tell you this - he gets bad stomach cramps, sometimes with vomiting but never gets a real headache. And after the episode, he is super tired and worn out - just like with a “real” migraine.

I get minor migraines (usually from dehydration) that come with an early warning - I get rainbow prisms in my vision. When that happens, I take a couple Advil and I can usually stave off a major issue. I couldn’t imagine going through what you describe.

My two core ones that work for me:

Jarro-Dophilus+FOS

Bimuno

I have others but those are my core to fix my antibiotic induced problems. It took a few helpful PhD folks and many years to figure something out that works for me. Also I tend to take Dapsone for a week or two after my other anti-biotic round when I have to take them. It really makes a huge difference after my initial anti-biotic round, while I transition off them with the start of my probiotic routine. I do not take them together, i split my day on the gut reprogramming, dapsone at night, probiotics in the morning while I get off the whole antibiotic routine. It does take a few months before i stop having the responses to the gluten. Then I am free until something triggers my hidradenitis and i have to get back on the anti-biotics and start all over.

Also, I like fermented things. Pickled stuff, kim chi, etc. I do not do yogurts. I expect what works for others is highly dependent on what you eat already and the individual state of your own gut microbiome. I don't eat much in the way of sugar or bread/wheat based things that have gluten outside what I mentioned before. No cakes, no cookies, no candy, no crackers. I avoid processed foods most of the time, though occasionally on a holiday or special occasion will indulge in something sweet.

Yeah I’ve had lots of people not thinking it’s a big deal and telling me it’s mental. But my mum says when I was a baby food would go straight through me so? Unlikely baby me was causing it by being anxious. I used to be severely underweight because I’d avoid food just to avoid the consequences of eating it

Got my colon removed, still got anxiety.

I have reason to believe ibs is autoimmune in nature and due to immune system dysregulation causing autoantibodies against the autonomic nervous system to be produced causing dysfunction in the gut.

"Naturopathy as a whole lacks an adequate scientific basis,[5] and it is rejected by the medical community.[5] Although it includes valid lifestyle advice from mainstream medicine (healthy sleep, balanced diet, regular exercise),[15] it typically adds a range of pseudoscientific beliefs.[22] Some methods rely on immaterial "vital energy fields", the existence of which has not been proven, and there is concern that naturopathy as a field tends towards isolation from general scientific discourse.[22][58][59] Naturopathy is criticized for its reliance on and its association with unproven, disproven, and other controversial alternative medical treatments, and for its vitalistic underpinnings.[15][16] Natural substances known as nutraceuticals show little promise in treating diseases, especially cancer, as laboratory experiments have shown limited therapeutic effect on biochemical pathways, while clinical trials demonstrate poor bioavailability.[60] According to the American Cancer Society, "scientific evidence does not support claims that naturopathic medicine can cure cancer or any other disease".[16] According to Britt Hermes, naturopath student programs are problematic because "As a naturopath [student], you are making justifications to make the rules and to fudge the standards of how to interpret research all along the way. Because if you don't, you're not left with anything, basically".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturopathy#Evidence_basis