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afrothunder1987 t1_je5tkye wrote

For reference, Sagittarius A*, the supermassive black hole at the center of the Milky Way is 4.3 million times the mass of the sun.

At 30 billion times the mass of the sun this thing is….. big

Ultra massive black holes like this present a problem for science. Accretion disks can only become so hot, dense, and energetic around black holes before they radiate so much energy that they keep themselves from falling into a black hole above a certain rate. There is effectively a limit to how fast black holes can grow.

These super/ultra massive black holes are bigger than it should be possible for them to be, even if they experienced max growth rate constantly from the birth of the universe.

So how did they get that big?

A cool theory is that when the universe was young, dense, and hot, enormous stars formed that were so massive their cores compressed into black holes. And because these black holes are surrounded by a star which is constantly crushing matter into it, the black holes basically get force fed. The accretion disk energy is overwhelmed by the crushing pressure from the gigantic Star.

It’s a fun theory.


Anticode t1_je6m7ry wrote

> A cool theory is that when the universe was young, dense, and hot, enormous stars formed that were so massive their cores compressed into black holes.

Sounds a lot like my teenage years.


WrongAspects t1_je6ys2r wrote

Our Galaxy has a hundred billion stars in it. This black hole has 30 billion


timberwolf0122 t1_je7yujk wrote

It’s a hundred thousand light years wide Bulging in the middle 16 thousand light years thick But by us it’s just 3 thousand light years wide


linkdude212 t1_je8x3cd wrote

For other readers, these are dimensions of our galactic disk, not the black hole.


DirtyProtest t1_je99rg6 wrote

We're thirty thousand light years from galactic central point,

We go round every two hundred milion years,

And our galaxy is only one millions of billions in this amazing and expanding universe.


B4SSF4C3 t1_je73x37 wrote

>At 30 billion times the mass of the Sun this thing is… big

Not big at all, actually. But it IS massive ;)


FrickinLazerBeams t1_je7ebb4 wrote

A 30 billion solar mass black hole has a diameter of nearly 600 times that of earths orbit around the sun. That's pretty big.


B4SSF4C3 t1_je7hqy2 wrote

You are referencing event horizon, not the singularity. But I suppose I’ll agree that if considering the overall black hole phenomena, the event horizon would be a more logical “edge” to reference.


Aeseld t1_je840it wrote

"What actually transpires beneath the veil of an event horizon? Decent people shouldn't think too much about that."

Academician Prokhor Zakharov, "For I Have Tasted The Fruit"


linkdude212 t1_je8xi6w wrote

I see you're studying for your degree in pedantry. A black hole is it's event horizon and everything inside it.


igloofu t1_je7rgrr wrote

Could these ultra-massive black holes be the source of the extra unseen mass in the universe that is attributed to dark matter?


afrothunder1987 t1_je83nwh wrote

Thats a theory yes! They may me much more common than previously thought and account for the effect described by dark matter.


endlessupending t1_je70u3m wrote

So if you combine a few of these primordials in a merger you could get something like this one?


N8CCRG t1_je7gl29 wrote

The challenge is that in order to get 30 billion times more massive than the sun requires a whole lot more than "a few". It requires tens of thousands to millions of mergers of already supersized black holes. I doubt anyone would say impossible, but it's definitely worth considering other explanations as well.


endlessupending t1_je81374 wrote

I mean it’s like mass of 1/3 of stars in the Milky Way assuming each is 1 sol. When you got all these big bois in a small room it’s gonna be like a clash of the titans. It’s not inconceivable that the early universe could accommodate that mergerpalooza scenario.perhaps some shot off and became the galactic cores of most galaxies.


afrothunder1987 t1_je71qja wrote

Well this is all theory but possibly! Could be that two galaxies with overly large black holes merged and the black holes combined. Or maybe the star that force fed this particular black hole was just way larger than normal.


endlessupending t1_je72t2e wrote

Something tells me primordial mergers if a real thing were more common than supermassive mergers based on the relatively smaller size of the early universe. I have no data to back that up though.


iborobotosis23 t1_je7c6zm wrote

Please stop saying theory. I don't think you're using it the way it should be in a scientific context.


honeybadger9 t1_je7kh2e wrote

Should stop gate keeping science. A theory is an idea based on a general understanding of something. If this and this happens at this scale, then it's possible for this to happen at a larger or smaller scale.

A theory is just an idea that could be possible but hasn't been proven yet.


iborobotosis23 t1_je7lqj8 wrote

You know what? You're right. I just read up the definition here (link). I think it states that theories a bit more defined than what you're saying but I was probably conflating theory and empirical law.


DarkStarStorm t1_je7dmme wrote

Give them a replacement word, then.


iborobotosis23 t1_je7kwk7 wrote

I'll give you a few (link).

"But", you'll say, "I see the word theory right there!" You're quite right it is in there. But that is not the context in which the word should be used when discussing scientific topics. When using theory in a scientific discussion it's meant to convey the most certain scientists can be on a statement. This is not true based of a little more reading on theories and laws. Oopsie, my bad!


korinth86 t1_je7evbt wrote

Quasars are basically constantly on the verge of exploding and imploding at the same time.

Boggles the mind.