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High-Scorer-001 t1_jbq8ebc wrote

It's okay, we know how to handle viruses now. So if another pathogen starts spreading, we'll all do what's scientifically proven to stop its spread and won't engage in nonsense conspiracy theories or engage in behaviour that will harm ourselves or our loved ones...right?


delvach t1_jbsejrt wrote

"Look at me. I am the virus expert now."

Yeah we're screwed.


sedativumxnx t1_jbr2rxm wrote

Hey, now these viruses, this time, at least will kill unintentionally, and not by getting mismanaged in a lab. Always look for the silver lining.


[deleted] t1_jbr758w wrote

Where do you think they are running these tests? In someone’s kitchen?


Dirus t1_jbskkar wrote

You haven't lived till you've had ancient virus spice latte!


Wagamaga OP t1_jbppl4f wrote

A team of climate scientists from France, Russia and Germany has found that ancient viruses dormant for tens of thousands of years in permafrost can infect modern amoeba when they are revived. For their study, reported on the open-access site Viruses, the group collected several giant virus specimens from permafrost in Siberia and tested them to see if they could still infect modern creatures.

Prior research has shown that permafrost—frozen soil—is an excellent preservative. Many carcasses of frozen extinct animals have been extracted from permafrost in the Northern Hemisphere. Prior research has also shown that plant seeds lying dormant in permafrost can be coaxed to grow once revived. And there is evidence suggesting that viruses and bacteria trapped in permafrost could infect hosts if revived. In this new effort, the researchers tested this theory.

The effort by the research team followed up on prior work in 2014 that showed a 30,000-year-old virus could be revived—and that it could be infectious. The team followed up on that effort by reviving a different virus in 2015 and allowing it to infect an amoeba. In this new effort, the team collected several virus specimens from multiple permafrost sites across Siberia for lab testing.

For safety reasons, the research team collects only so-called giant viruses and only those that can infect amoeba, not humans or any other creature. In reviving the virus samples, the team found that they were still capable of infecting amoeba. They also found, via radiocarbon dating of the permafrost in which they were found, that the viruses had been in a dormant state for between 27,000 and 48,500 years


SpecterGT260 t1_jbss817 wrote

Permafrost always reminds me of how broken the education system can be. Specifically because when in elementary school our teacher was describing it as "ground that has gotten so cold it can never unfreeze". I pressed, as a 3rd grader and asked if someone took a scoop of it and took it to the desert if it would remain frozen. She was adamant that, yes, it would remain frozen. I didn't ask her what would happen if we hurled it into the sun, but I'm curious what she would have said. For some reason I've never forgotten this exchange and it makes me think that maybe we should have people who know the material teaching and not people who have an advanced degree in babysitting.


TheTussin t1_jbsz16a wrote

Probably won't get a lot of PhDs teaching 3rd grade


SpecterGT260 t1_jbt0gc5 wrote

No, but it also doesn't take a PhD to realize that permafrost isn't impervious to the sun. In this story it took a 3rd grader


Maverick0984 t1_jbtuson wrote

Probably more a function of your teacher and less a condemnation of the education system. There are stupid people all around us...


SpecterGT260 t1_jbtzony wrote

It wasn't the only example. I had teachers in almost every grade that didn't know their own material and made very basic errors.

Had one tell us in middle school (geometry) that light reflects off a mirror always at a right angle. He also stuck to his guns on this until I asked him what would happen if you looked straight into a mirror and then moved 1 inch to the right. Would you be staring at the wall to your left?

Another middle school teacher was adamant that radicals just cancelled out negatives. Because -2 squared is 4, therefore any time you interact with a radical the negative just disappears. I ended up with detention for fighting for -sqrt(4) is in fact -2 like the book said and not a typo like the teacher insisted. To be fair, he normally taught gym, but this was supposed to be the advanced algebra class... And I was even in one of the better public school systems.

The problem is that the education degree has very little to do with the subject matter being taught. A tech CEO may know a lot about running a business but that doesn't mean they should be teaching the programmers code. Yet we have almost none of the basic subject matter in the training for those tasked with training our kids. It's silly


Maverick0984 t1_jbu01jj wrote

Maybe your school was just bad? I don't know what to tell you. Your anecdotal experience differs wildly from mine.

I assume you're happy with what teachers are paid as well based on this "analysis"

Edit: typo


SpecterGT260 t1_jbu13ij wrote

I addressed that. A top scoring school in ITBS/ITED. I went to a great college and ended up going to professional school. I don't feel I had any obstacles to the life I now have because of primary school. But there were still problems.

And yes, I think we should pay teachers more. It would draw in more people who are actually good educators. Are you trying to make a point?


Maverick0984 t1_jbuaux3 wrote

My point was that your experience is completely anecdotal yet you claim it as fact. If your school was ranked well, then you got bad teachers in an otherwise good school. Assuming all teachers are improperly trained and dumb is just plain ignorant.


SpecterGT260 t1_jbuc32a wrote

I claimed it as a personal opinion. You're looking for a fight and I'm not interested


Maverick0984 t1_jbucu2h wrote

You never once mentioned the words "personal" or "opinion".

Here are some exerts from your posts:

>Permafrost always reminds me of how broken the education system can be. ​

>The problem is that the education degree has very little to do with the subject matter being taught...Yet we have almost none of the basic subject matter in the training for those tasked with training our kids. It's silly ​

Seems awfully universal to you in these posts my guy.


SpecterGT260 t1_jbue3cq wrote

You still seem to be looking for a fight. Do you disagree that we should have educators that understand the material?


Maverick0984 t1_jbuh3gm wrote

If that's your question, you clearly don't understand what I'm saying.

The vast majority of teachers do understand the material. You had some weird bad luck and that's the end of it.


SpecterGT260 t1_jbujgmt wrote

It's weird how you don't seem aware that your statement is also anecdotal. My experience was that there are plenty who don't understand it. If you didn't have that experience perhaps you were lucky or you also didn't understand the material.


Maverick0984 t1_jbuphok wrote

I'm not the one with the claim. Burden on proof lies with you.


SpecterGT260 t1_jbuqone wrote

I'm not trying to prove anything. I am just stating my experience. Based on that experience, I believe the proportion of teachers who are teaching subjects they are unfamiliar with is too high.


Maverick0984 t1_jbuqywb wrote

Yeah, that's not the only thing you said though. You made blanket claims. See the previous post of mine where I pointed a couple of these instances out. You are trying to backpedal those statements now.


SpecterGT260 t1_jbusmrf wrote

My mistake. The statement has been amended here. What is your next issue, sir?


sagitt12 t1_jbt4dnp wrote

This reminds me of the time in elementary school when we were on the topic of lava and the teacher said it kills. I asked if just a drop could kill a person and she said yes.


danielravennest t1_jbt7cn8 wrote

It would give you a nasty burn, same as the heating element on a stove burner or toaster, which are about the same temperature.

The correct answer is "don't stand close to volcanic eruptions" because they can kill you in several ways (poison gases, heat, rock falls, etc.)


monstrol t1_jbtfyt9 wrote

I have always believed that the most educated should teach the least educated. Just saying


Binsky89 t1_jbqzpyb wrote

None of that suggests that melting permafrost poses a risk of viruses re-emerging.

I don't know what's involved in 'reviving' a virus, but it sounds like human intervention is required for it to happen.


Darwins_Dog t1_jbr1h9v wrote

The only intervention was they had to isolate the viruses in order to be sure that they were the cause of infections in the amoeba cultures. That's what they mean by reviving. They isolated it, infected cells, which then infected other cells.

Most viruses don't have to be isolated to become infectious, and some are pretty good at crossing species.


Binsky89 t1_jbrbxt2 wrote

That definitely changes things then.

I still have to wonder why the author chose to use the term revive in the context of a thing that wasn't alive in the first place (unless things have changed since my biology course in 08). I feel like thawing would be a much more accurate descriptor of the process.


Morlik t1_jbt85u0 wrote

Revive doesn't necessarily refer to life or being alive. From Webster:

1 : to restore to consciousness or life

2 : to restore from a depressed, inactive, or unused state : bring back

3 : to renew in the mind or memory


FallCheetah7373 t1_jbsxtpu wrote

yeah viruses are neither alive nor dead since the last time I dug deeper into the rabbit hole like 6 months ago it was a spiralling into the same answer over and over as per the top google posts and other html pages


metalmaxilla t1_jbrckv4 wrote

Viruses themselves are not "alive". They exploit a living organism's machinery to cause the infection and have a way to replicate/spread. They simply have to come into contact with another organism with the right door they can get through. So if permafrost melts, it exposes the virus to either wind or water as a mode of transportation to get to living organisms... another way is the melting of its shield allows nearby organisms to come into contact with it.

Sounds like human intervention was needed to isolate samples and prove the hypothesis.


S_A_N_D_ t1_jbrx7vt wrote

Viruses equally rely on their host for binding, cell entry, and replication.

The further we get from these viruses time wise, the less efficient it will likely be at the above.

I really hate these scare articles because there is very little to suggest these viruses actually pose a risk. There is however real risk from organisms that are currently co-evolving their virulence in tandem with us right now.


Binsky89 t1_jbrf11d wrote

Yeah, OP explained what they meant by reviving.

I think it's an extremely poor choice of words for something that was never alive to begin with.


metalmaxilla t1_jbriu02 wrote

It's a key nuance at the basis of the hypothesis that suggests there is a risk of re-emergence without deliberate intervention.

If melting permafrost uncovered intact virus, enabling a susceptible host to be exposed, then infection could theoretically happen.

That is the basis of the epidemiology triad of agent-host-environment.


zyl0x t1_jbtlbab wrote

Viruses aren't even "alive" in the traditional sense outside of a host. They are inert until they come into contact with living cells. So presuming their cellular structure survived the freezing process itself, there's nothing special that needs to be done to "revive" frozen viruses besides introducing them to a host.


wsclose t1_jbqucpm wrote

For anyone worried about Scientists reviving a virus should know that Amoebas do not share any viruses with animals and humans because of their extremely large evolutionary distance.


Tony2Punch t1_jbs1bzm wrote

Isnt it the whole point that something we don’t expect but within the realm of possibility could change that fact after the ice melts


[deleted] t1_jbrr0f1 wrote



YouAreGenuinelyDumb t1_jbrv60s wrote

There are many indirect risks, but the extent of the risk is pretty much unknowable. Maybe the vast majority of these viruses are degraded and no longer viable. Perhaps some were obsoleted by the evolution of more competitive relatives or stronger host immune systems. Perhaps the vectors and hosts are extinct and the virus has no means to naturally replicate. Maybe the one virus that manages to breakout is enough to do serious damage to the environment and society. Or maybe there are thousands of different catastrophes waiting to thaw from the ice.


[deleted] t1_jbqa9fq wrote

Oh, it’s going to happen, no doubts about that, do we really care as a humanity at this point?


jack821 t1_jbrlh11 wrote

I mean, yeah. Lots and lots of suffering.


bittyboyben t1_jbsr22j wrote

Individuals and small groups (relatively) seem to care about stopping that.

But humanity in general, on the grand scale, counterintuitively seems to very much not care about that and continue to do things that will inevitably cause more suffering than necessary.


jack821 t1_jbu6j4e wrote

I understand you want to just let life all blink from existence. Fine. But don’t wish it in a cruel way such as a plague etc. Ironically that’s the whole reason you don’t want it all to continue I’m guessing.


16billionDeadEyes t1_jbqywzx wrote

Even worse than that. Not only is there the threat of them infecting humans, but infecting other species is just as dangerous. From ecological health, to food production for humans, a bunch of unknown viruses being unleashed could be devastating to humanity without ever even infecting humanity.


EnergizingBolt t1_jbptv3i wrote

That is extremely concerning, we will have to be 100% cautious while handling these ancient viruses, it's crazy how a virus can put itself to deep sleep for over 20,000 years.


[deleted] t1_jbqxq9y wrote

>put itself to sleep

Tell me you have zero understanding of basic biology without telling me


FalloutNano t1_jbqzytv wrote

It isn’t meant to be read literally.


EnergizingBolt t1_jbr5xdt wrote

I think he got a little confused about my statement a little bit.


[deleted] t1_jbr0m5q wrote

The entire comment flies in the face of basic biology, right along side OP’s post.


EnergizingBolt t1_jbr5vg7 wrote

I am actually a huge science nerd that studies Physics, Biology and Computer Science, my comment was mainly a reaction.


Morbo_Kang_Kodos t1_jbqx8hs wrote

One way or another, we will definitely go the way of the dinosaurs, and probably way sooner than everyone thinks


217EBroadwayApt4E t1_jbrt3j6 wrote

Well, if COVID taught us anything it’s that people will remain calm, listen to the science, and act with the good of everyone in mind.



DragonDai t1_jbsa8jj wrote

There is a concept called the Fermi Paradox that posits a Great Filter. Their is no doubt in my mind that the upcoming capitalism-caused climate collapse is that great filter.


danielravennest t1_jbt9nfl wrote

I would doubt it. That same capitalism is massively increasing solar panel production because there is a buck (or Chines Yuan since most of them are made there) to be made:

>"According to the Silicon Industry Branch, China’s silicon material production capacity will reach 2.4 million tons in 2023, double that of last year." Source

Silicon being the material solar cells are made of. It takes about 2 grams per Watt to make the cells. So that much capacity theoretically could supply 1200 GW of solar per year, or 240 GW of nuclear plant output equivalent. World nuclear capacity is ~400 GW. So you would be adding 60% of that every year. That's a whole lot of clean power.


joxeloj t1_jbqwlcb wrote

I'm EXTREMELY skeptical this is a meaningful risk. Viruses infecting single cell organisms are extremely abundant in the environment but do not pose a threat to humans.

Viruses that infect humans or even mammals immensely less abundant, so very few if any will stand a chance of being preserved in this manner. It seems astronomically unlikely they would then make it back into a living host in sufficient numbers while still viable to achieve a productive infection. I imagine an infected carcass would have to freeze very quickly for viable viruses to be preserved, and then be consumed in large amounts fairly quickly to infect something.

Even if they did, they'd be less likely to achieve subsequent transmission relative to current viruses in active circulation and no more likely to be lethal/highly pathogenic. This just reads like a scary sentence you put at the ending of a basic microbiology paper to garner media coverage and win career points.


metalmaxilla t1_jbrdhts wrote

One of the examples that's always pondered is smallpox. If infected bodies buried in permafrost become exposed, could smallpox create an outbreak now that vaccination is no longer routine? A Russian group investigated this in the 1990s but the virus particles were too broken up to cause an infection. Still makes you wonder about the possibility if there was a specimen preserved just right or happened to still have intact and virulent virus.


merchant_of_mirrors t1_jbr8pj9 wrote

except that they've already found both virus and bacteria that were viable, so its not theory. As the permafrost melts, the likelihood of one emerging that can infect humans goes up, and as the area warms, you'll have more people living there and potentially becoming exposed to these pathogens.


joxeloj t1_jbrjaht wrote

Bacteria is not news, human pathogenic viruses are, and it's a very different scenario. There are absolutely levels of risk and viruses are not bacterial spores.


28nov2022 t1_jbqaool wrote

I read this article that said as the climate warms up, more species will be forced to migrate northward, out of their natural habitats, come into contact with human territory, leading to more frequent zoonotic transfers, so likely pandemics will become more frequent. As well as deadlier, as virus adapt to warmer temperatures making fevers less effective.


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Magically_Baelicious t1_jbqyyr0 wrote

Reminds of ‘The Thing,’ which…no.


vapre t1_jbs26oo wrote

Every so often I’ll think about the one trailer with the voice that is broadcasting “We found something in the ice…we found something…” and it trails off. Super creepy.


Capn_Zelnick t1_jbr27l3 wrote

Literally a Plague Inc. scenario


ColeWRS t1_jbrqngm wrote

This is very interesting, but only time will tell. There are many viruses that infect other microbes and I think those would be more common to be preserved in permafrost compared to a human pathogen. We have learned a lot and made significant advancements in pandemic response and disease surveillance and control.


The_Moofia t1_jbru559 wrote

Nature has a way of culling itself, right?


Yawndr t1_jbrz6zi wrote

Isn't that something we've known for quite some time? Even some fiction books are about that.


brownc6830 t1_jbsfwea wrote

Let’s just reference it….


Responsible-Laugh590 t1_jbsgxsh wrote

I have a feeling that these viruses will be out competed by current virus strains that have evolved to counter modern mammalian antibodies rather then being actually dangerous. But who knows be careful regardless.


KittenKoder t1_jbsl570 wrote

As bad as we handled COVID, a prehistoric COVID will destroy us.


ErraticUnit t1_jbsq06q wrote

I'm not sure the whether something can infect humans or not is the bigger problem here...


[deleted] t1_jbsshcr wrote

Let’s test them all in a lab in China. Should be fine.


Spinalstreamer407 t1_jbtigre wrote

Climate change can expose us to things we have never seen or experienced before or even thought about. Being safe and secure may become a problem and these diseases will be lurking around our front doormat to the point where our house may not provide the kind of sanctuary we are used to. Are you prepared?


SoftwarePatient5050 t1_jbtzgom wrote

It's also entirely possible that none of these viruses end up being capable of infecting humans.


Miguel-odon t1_jbvvpwq wrote

Doesn't even need to infect humans to harm us.

Most of our food supply depends on just a few species of plants.


alchilito t1_jbvvz6f wrote

Not many apes around for proper virus evolution makes me question this


JustPlainJaneToday t1_jbqz7s3 wrote

Seems like the bigger concern than any climate change releasing viruses is premature thawing of them!


UniverseBear t1_jbrwypz wrote

Global warming: "have you ever had Mammoth aids? you wanna?"


[deleted] t1_jbqkxcf wrote



korinth86 t1_jbqvbdi wrote

Andromeda Strain? Decent book I thought. Movie was ok iirc but its been a minute.


ti-gars t1_jbvfuuf wrote

It was not a virus, and from space not from petmafrost


NotMrBuncat t1_jbrn28f wrote

clickvait headline. It's very unlikely that there will be a virus in the permafrost that would pop out ready to be the next pandemic. Thats just not how viruses work. They're far too specialized.


Affectionate-Goat896 t1_jbs6fid wrote

Well it's a more plausible excuse than blaming bats.

Still though, shouldn't we have some inherited immunity for most of these historical pathogens?


Rustydustyscavenger t1_jbrdfzn wrote

I mean these are viruses that have never encountered any kind of antibiotic or any kind of medicine i assume they could be wiped out fairly easily


Saladcitypig t1_jbsploo wrote

Antibiotics are for bacteria. And all virus if viable and able to infect mammals is almost always very bad.


TwistingEarth t1_jbs76qy wrote

Sounds more like fear mongering, and less like science.


TB3Der t1_jbsn5m0 wrote

Especially once Fauci and friends get ahold of it and start gof research on them…..


mgill2500 t1_jbq7qkw wrote

One can only hope. If we truly care about the planet. Theres a huge community of parasites destroying her. Humans


radicz t1_jbql6rd wrote

Don't cut yourself on that edge.


mgill2500 t1_jbqm2fg wrote

Man. Im dumb. Im like what edge?!?! Im confusion. Then it clicked.