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give_me_yr_coffee t1_je6var6 wrote

Is there any probiotic that can help here or nah?

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Bardhyll t1_je7fdtd wrote

I’ve personally seen surprising improvement using the opposite approach - the addition of a low grade antibiotic (doxycycline) course. It’s been the only change to her treatment in the last several years. It’s astounding to see someone with relapsing remitting MS go from barely able to lift her hand to feed herself to almost standing on her own and doing a couple laps around the living room with a walker.

Edit: to add this is obviously an n of 1 anecdote, but it gives me an insight to investigate further.

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give_me_yr_coffee t1_je7jfme wrote

Interesting. Is the theory that MS is caused by whatever the doxycycline kills off?

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Bardhyll t1_je87jsc wrote

With a disease like MS very little is known definitively about the direct cause. The broad theory is that something triggers the immune system to attack the nerve cells causing severe scaring (sclerosis) which degrades or eventually completely blocks neuron function. The biggest puzzle has been what causes the blood brain barrier breach in this autoimmune reaction. However, given how much we are now uncovering regarding the gut microbiome link with brain function and mental health, it’s plausible that a Clostridium infection in the gut could open such a pathway.

After posting my comment above I went back to the literature and confirmed that doxycycline does indeed cover clostridium perfringens. I would be very interested to see a patient trial, but I don’t expect many pharmaceutical companies are lining up to discover a new disease treatment for a drug that has been in commercial use for more than 50 years.

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AM_OR_FA_TI t1_je7bjpj wrote

Cinnamaldehyde, thymol, citrus, chamomile, roman oil, carvacrol, oregano oil, green tea extract, saturated lauric acid and unsaturated linoleic acid appear to be effective.

Inactivation Strategies for Clostridium perfringens Spores and Vegetative Cells

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5165105/#!po=23.1343

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gertalives t1_je7y8pf wrote

Those are for controlling clostridium in the environment/foods, not in the body.

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AM_OR_FA_TI t1_je84qw8 wrote

Well yeah that’s true but if it prevents growth on improperly chilled meats for 6, 12 hours etc. then it stands to reason the bacteria still doesn’t like them in the small intestine either. I don’t see how it’s likely to change?

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Meajaq t1_je8572h wrote

Direct exposure. The GI tract is.. totally different.

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AM_OR_FA_TI t1_je88ewe wrote

But if you put these things into gelatin capsules, the same kind designed for OTC herbal supplements, they’re formulated to dissolve within the small intestine, which is where this particular bacteria and toxin are being produced. I’m not suggesting it totally ameliorates it, but I think it strongly stands to reason that it’d likely reduce numbers or severity some.

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