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Hrmbee OP t1_ir4a8r3 wrote

From the article:

>The researchers analysed blood from 36 Covid patients admitted to Guy’s and St Thomas’ NHS Foundation Trust in London in the first wave of the pandemic. They found that levels of a protein called IL-6, which immune cells release as a rallying call for other immune cells, were more than 15 times higher than normal in infected individuals. > >But an even more dramatic rise in IL-6 was found in Covid patients with delirium – a state of extreme confusion that can leave people not knowing who, or where, they are. In these patients, IL-6 was six times higher than in other Covid patients. Nearly a third of Covid patients admitted to hospital experience delirium, rising to two-thirds in severe cases. > >The scientists then investigated how high levels of IL-6 might affect neurons in the hippocampus by exposing lab-grown nerve cells to the patients’ blood. They found that blood from patients with delirium increased the normal death rate of neurons and reduced the generation of new brain cells. The damage caused is thought to drive delirium. > >The harmful effects were traced back to a cascade of events where IL-6 triggers the release of two related immune proteins, called IL-12 and IL-13. Dr Alessandra Borsini, the study’s first author, said the impact of the proteins on generating new brain cells was “profound”. > >However, blocking the proteins protected brain cells from damage, the scientists report in Molecular Psychiatry. The work suggests drugs known as Janus kinase inhibitors, which are already used to calm dangerous immune reactions to Covid, might combat delirium and its knock-on effects. > >Older people are particularly vulnerable to delirium after a range of infections and operations. The state of confusion leads to a substantial rise in the risk of dementia. > >“We believe these proteins are responsible for the delirium symptoms in acute Covid patients, and in general in long Covid patients experiencing neurological symptoms,” Borsini said. Measuring the levels of the immune proteins in patients could help personalise their treatment, she added.

It will be interesting to see further research in this direction. Hopefully some of the other factors that might be contributing to neurological damage from COVID infections and their relationships with each other can also be determined in short order.


bolonomadic t1_ir4ubnb wrote

So much for people wanting to “boost “ their immune system.


Propyl_People_Ether t1_ir4vo8g wrote

That's kind of a silly comment. Immune systems are complicated and there are many, many different types of cells and messenger molecules involved.

Obviously, increasing this specific kind of molecule (cytokines) isn't great. But "immune system" is a vague phrase like "home security".

You could say "So much for wanting to boost your home security" on, say, a gun fatality. But in actuality there are many types of home security that don't involve weapons. An alarm system, a camera, a dog or a fence can all increase your security without physical violence.

Similarly, immunological memory/antigen recognition is one of the first line defenses we have in our bodies, and it's good to have those first-line defenses well honed.

Whereas cytokines such as IL-6 are more like guns; once there are too many going off in one place, whatever you were hoping to prevent from happening probably already has.


Envect t1_ir4w6d8 wrote

You know they were talking about anti-vaxxers, right?


Propyl_People_Ether t1_ir4xm35 wrote

They may have been, but a lot of the things anti-vaxxers repeat are things that start as oversimplification into inaccuracy.

In order to fight this form of disinformation, we must also avoid feeding it new and different inaccuracies.


dylsekctic t1_ir5blnv wrote

I've been avoiding covid like the plague....and have succeeded so far unless I've had an asymptomatic case I never noticed.

I don't regret it.


samcrut t1_ir6w1jb wrote

So did I, and then my nephew's wife got killed in a car crash and went to the funeral. Little bro rode with me in the back seat of the car to go there. That tickle in his throat wasn't allergies. Jackass infected me. Fortunately, mom (82) lucked out and it didn't take root in her. Fortunately it was mild, but I can't tell if the crazies dancing in my head are from the virus or just being cooped up and leaning into an agoraphobic lifestyle.


StruggleBus619 t1_ir8wcoo wrote

I had it once (mild symptoms, basically just an annoying sore throat/cough that went away after a few days). But I constantly wonder about what if I've had it other times and I never knew because it was asymptomatic. I'd be so fascinated to see if science in the future comes up with a test that can show how much COVID has been in your body before or something like that. And I'm curious if the OP study has any implications for whether or not asymptomatic cases can still lead to long COVID issues like neurological problems. Or if the chances/severity of long COVID is tied to how severe your symptoms/immune response is. Just so many things we still don't know or are only just scratching the surface on with COVID.


repro t1_ir57g2h wrote

I was hospitalised with neurological issues after having covid. It was terrifying. I was diagnosed with transverse myelitis and RRMS, completely turning my life upside down. I keep seeing more articles like this and wonder if this has happened to me. My neuro team said there wasn't enough scientific data to prove or disprove that covid caused it, but I had no previous symptoms so there is some correlation. It's not like knowing what caused it will change anything, but I would like to know.


Hrmbee OP t1_ir4ajrl wrote

For those interested, a link to the referenced research paper:

Neurogenesis is disrupted in human hippocampal progenitor cells upon exposure to serum samples from hospitalized COVID-19 patients with neurological symptoms


>Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), represents an enormous new threat to our healthcare system and particularly to the health of older adults. Although the respiratory symptoms of COVID-19 are well recognized, the neurological manifestations, and their underlying cellular and molecular mechanisms, have not been extensively studied yet. Our study is the first one to test the direct effect of serum from hospitalised COVID-19 patients on human hippocampal neurogenesis using a unique in vitro experimental assay with human hippocampal progenitor cells (HPC0A07/03 C). We identify the different molecular pathways activated by serum from COVID-19 patients with and without neurological symptoms (i.e., delirium), and their effects on neuronal proliferation, neurogenesis, and apoptosis. We collected serum sample twice, at time of hospital admission and approximately 5 days after hospitalization. We found that treatment with serum samples from COVID-19 patients with delirium (n = 18) decreased cell proliferation and neurogenesis, and increases apoptosis, when compared with serum samples of sex- and age-matched COVID-19 patients without delirium (n = 18). This effect was due to a higher concentration of interleukin 6 (IL6) in serum samples of patients with delirium (mean ± SD: 229.9 ± 79.1 pg/ml, vs. 32.5 ± 9.5 pg/ml in patients without delirium). Indeed, treatment of cells with an antibody against IL6 prevented the decreased cell proliferation and neurogenesis and the increased apoptosis. Moreover, increased concentration of IL6 in serum samples from delirium patients stimulated the hippocampal cells to produce IL12 and IL13, and treatment with an antibody against IL12 or IL13 also prevented the decreased cell proliferation and neurogenesis, and the increased apoptosis. Interestingly, treatment with the compounds commonly administered to acute COVID-19 patients (the Janus kinase inhibitors, baricitinib, ruxolitinib and tofacitinib) were able to restore normal cell viability, proliferation and neurogenesis by targeting the effects of IL12 and IL13. Overall, our results show that serum from COVID-19 patients with delirium can negatively affect hippocampal-dependent neurogenic processes, and that this effect is mediated by IL6-induced production of the downstream inflammatory cytokines IL12 and IL13, which are ultimately responsible for the detrimental cellular outcomes.


MetalJunkie101 t1_ir66vsj wrote

I was in ICU for a week back when COVID first got big and before I was eligible for vaccination.

When I got out... trying to drive was a mistake. I didn't have a wreck, fortunately, but it felt like I was driving drunk. I was so worried it was permanent. Thankfully it passed.


samcrut t1_ir6u2em wrote

This is something that low grade terrifies me. The GOP spread the anti-vax propaganda and so the conservatives got more covid than dems, and the long haul symptoms mess with your brain, so a large % of those right-wingers are sporting a crazy booster making them more angry and prone to violence.


zhulinxian t1_ir8gsfc wrote

We need to be careful to not associate covid long haulers with those people. A lot of long haulers had breakthrough infections. A lot of long haulers (like me) didn’t have the chance to get vaccinated before being infected.


Afrophish85 t1_ir7btx4 wrote

Any data to support such a claim?


samcrut t1_ir7epcj wrote

What claim? Conservative regions got higher case numbers due to resistance to lockdowns, masking, social distancing, and vaccine hesitancy. That survey absolutely exists for you to find. Long covid causes mental health issues in many people. That's the article you're replying about.


Afrophish85 t1_ir7hg9c wrote

There's just too many variables to say so definitively that "more conservatives didn't get shots so more conservatives are going to suffer mental health from covid".

Ehh, guess this isn't the place to question such a narrative. Carry on


necrotictouch t1_ir50trk wrote

It would be interesting to see if immunosuppressed patients are affected significantly less.


jeremy20a t1_ir6k4vh wrote

I think a problem with this that might be a factor is that the survival rate might limit the viable population for such a study.

Edit, but you are on to something, I'd like to see this also.


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Woodie626 t1_ir4cim8 wrote

Well yeah, it mostly manifests in the respiratory system as that's the entry point, but once it's in the body it seems to deteriorate any system it builds up in. With lasting effects.


Jazzlike-Drop23 t1_ir5ohbm wrote

And what about immune reaction to mRNA vaccines? Not trying to be a vaccine sceptic. Just asking.


Afrophish85 t1_ir7bxhg wrote

Don't you know you can't ask questions around here ?


joshberry90 t1_ir572zj wrote

Those symptoms started for me after the vaccine.


macefelter t1_ir5l0fx wrote

Somehow you wound up in /r/science. Shouldn’t you be in /r/joerogan or /r/trump4god?


aliso00 t1_ir8yt1a wrote

I swear to god there is not a single place that i can go to without a bunch of anti-vaxxers showing up. What the hell are they doing in /r/science??