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day7seven t1_irnkdjx wrote

Babies learn to speak from copying others. And a depressed person usually speaks less.


Cannonball_21 t1_irmyu75 wrote

I have to wonder if postpartum depression is more prevalent today because of the nuclear family and parents having fewer, if any support networks to relieve the gargantuan task of raising a newborn. Whole families had the infrastructure to care for new members. There were many people to intervene and give the mother the rest and recovery she needed after 10 months of her body being co-opted. There aren't enough hands and eyes now to lend support the way it used to be, and now there's even a significant aggressively child free like to see parents suffer for even existing. Strange times we live in.


dontknowhatitmeans t1_irn5f70 wrote

This is exactly it. Outside of the influence of modernity, human beings live in large groups where everyone shares the burden.


Cannonball_21 t1_irn9ijh wrote

To be sure, it was not uncommon back when people had all the resources they could desire. A lot of it is the chemical imbalance created when the hormones of pregnancy start to dissipate after the birth.


Sinemetu9 t1_irod9tb wrote

Had first kid in Sept 2019, first 6 months alone (dad working overseas, family & friends overseas), then Covid lockdown, so no nursery as planned, no playgroups, no interaction with other kids even in the park (parents afraid of unknown contagion risk), no social visits. When finally started nursery at 11 months all staff and parents were in masks and half body covered in gear, so kids couldn’t even see faces moving all day, parents couldn’t meet staff or each other. Kid now 3, I’ve recently taken up therapy for effectively PTSD, which kid can’t do. Kid is still way behind in forming sentences, verbalising intentions, interacting with peers (spent half of today’s friend’s birthday party alone in various corners). Very unpleasant times (that I know, theoretically, are unusual), but that’s the only experience we’ve had. Never again.


Pearl_is_gone t1_irooci9 wrote

I'm so sorry, but sounds like you're on it, and being a caring, good mother at it!


jade911 t1_irpwn9q wrote

I had my second baby in April 2020 which was during the hardest lockdown we had here in NZ. It's definitely been hard on the whole family, I feel your pain.


Celadorkable t1_iro2o1f wrote

I absolutely think this is the case.

I'm currently reading "Scattered Minds" by Gabor Mate, which links having depressed caretakers in early life to the development of ADHD. If his theory is accurate, then the nuclear family structure and lack of social support would also explain rising rates of ADHD.

We're social animals, but we've created a world where individualism is the goal. It's hardly surprising that so many people are struggling mentally.


Ok-Caterpillar-Girl t1_iro7ean wrote

ADHD is genetic.


hodlboo t1_irocpy2 wrote

New things can be learned about ADHD and it is not proven as 100% genetic. Science is always evolving.


DoodlerDude t1_irof4wz wrote

Sure, but not junk science


hodlboo t1_irolnvi wrote

It’s junk science to say definitively “ADHD is genetic” with no acknowledgment of the complexity and nuance behind ADHD


SecularMisanthropist t1_irokb3z wrote

ADHD is predominantly genetic, yes, but whether or not those genetics impact you and how disabling it is depends highly on epigenetics, the combination of your genes and your environment during your early years.


Angerina_ t1_irqdjkm wrote

As others commented, yes. I was fine until my husband had to get back to work after the first month. It all went downhill from there. Close friends who lived a minute away bought a house and were gone. Both our parents are a 90min drive away. On top of that lockdown. I got hot hard with depression for roughly ten months. Some days I couldn't speak at all and would only cry when I tried. Our daughter is now 23 months old and can only say 5 words, but luckily she understands even fine details in requests. So the vocabulary is there, she's just not vocalising.

Pediatrician appointments is in a week.


clhb t1_irqp4af wrote

That's been very tough on you. And the kid. Wish you all the best.


MandySka t1_is4e7mz wrote

My mother has always had speech problems and mood disorders because she comes from an abusive household. It didn't effect my speech or my siblings. This could be because of her very large family with two sisters and a brother who regularly got together. Including my father's huge family where we'd all have Sunday diners together at my grandmothers house.

The abuse carried into our household in my childhood. Eventually I chose men who were abusive. Had post partem depression with both my children. Was alone on my own to take care of them both.

I was severely isolated. My first had language delays up until the age of two, until he went into speech therapy. He developed very well thereafter, attending his speech therapy even a few years into grade school until he subsequently graduated from that program. He also has developmental delays with possible autism. He would be higher on the spectrum.

My second cannot speak at all and is aged 6. She has ASD. My second was my worst abusive relationship but he was only emotionally and verbally abusive to me until a few years into our relationship when it became much more.

I've been happily single for 3 years now as I focus on myself and my beautiful children. Intergenerational trauma is rampant in our society now, coupled with post-partum depression and isolation with a lack of mental supports, I can see this becoming a massive social problem. I feel so deeply saddened by how all of us were taught growing up that there was no one there to help us, and to suck ot up and get on with life.


Wagamaga OP t1_irm9e9y wrote

Up to 70 percent of mothers develop postnatal depressive mood, also known as baby blues, after their baby is born. Analyses show that this can also affect the development of the children themselves and their speech. Until now, however, it was unclear exactly how this impairment manifests itself in early language development in infants.

In a study, scientists at the Max Planck Institute for Human Cognitive and Brain Sciences in Leipzig have now investigated how well babies can distinguish speech sounds from one another depending on their mother's mood. This ability is considered an important prerequisite for the further steps towards a well-developed language. If sounds can be distinguished from one another, individual words can also be distinguished from one another. It became clear that if mothers indicate a more negative mood two months after birth, their children show on average a less mature processing of speech sounds at the age of six months. The infants found it particularly difficult to distinguish between syllable-pitches. Specifically, they showed that the development of their so-called Mismatch Response was delayed than in those whose mothers were in a more positive mood. This Mismatch Response in turn serves as a measure of how well someone can separate sounds from one another. If this development towards a pronounced mismatch reaction is delayed, this is considered an indication of an increased risk of suffering from a speech disorder later in life.


Foxs-In-A-Trenchcoat t1_irmdkwj wrote

This is fantastic research. My mom had undiagnosed PPD and undiagnosed autism so she rarely spoke to me. I ended up with severe language delay just from never hearing it.


Josquius t1_irovpnn wrote

How did that work out for you? Did you catch up or forever suffer in education for it?


Foxs-In-A-Trenchcoat t1_iroya3n wrote

My IQ was high enough I did well in school, and have two college degrees. I always had trouble talking though, and I have slower processing speed listening to people talking. Most people don't notice.


philmatu t1_irp0x0i wrote

I also relate heavily, I didn't really start talking until I was 5 and it was really bad, resulting in years of speech therapy to be barely understandable. Finally my senior year of high school, I got on an instant messenger with new internet friends who annoyed me into learning English (they'd correct everything I wrote). Thankfully my IQ was high enough to learn, otherwise I probably still wouldn't be able to communicate effectively.


Pudding_Hero t1_irnh0mt wrote

Just think of the thousands of little moments that a mother might sing or play word games or read to her kid. It’s hard to quantify just how much that helps.


wicketcity t1_irnq6hp wrote

It’d be interesting to see a new study on rates of post-partum depression in individuals who are either pressured or forced into motherhood. probably be seeing a lot more of this soon


QuestionableAI t1_irny6or wrote

Maybe focus on why she's depressed ... how come daddy ain't depressed?.. .. what are the structural, cultural, social, economic systemic situations that create or increase the problems?


Celadorkable t1_iro3mtp wrote

About 10% of new fathers do develop symptoms of PPD

New parenthood is very isolating, most people don't have the support of a "village". We saw how stress, isolation and staying home affected people mentally during covid - having a new baby is much the same.


QuestionableAI t1_irofo66 wrote

I did not know that ... thanks.

The "village" thing is for real. Grew up on a farm with parents and grandparents who lived less than 100 ft from our house. Hard to out think 4 adults ... but I developed a particular set of skills...;)


TallulahBob t1_irpmipf wrote

Had a baby during covid. His birth happened mere days before full lockdown. He didn’t meet anyone for months. I also am a life-long depression sufferer. He has speech delays.

Now I’m more depressed thinking this really could be my fault.


Celadorkable t1_irpov4m wrote

He's still young, and you now have awareness.

Its way better to realise this and be able to make changes or support him differently, than to realise it when he's an adult. Or not realise it at all.

My eldest has a lot of trouble with emotional regulation, attention and anxiety. I had OCD and PPD when I was pregnant and for a long time after he was born. After I got better I had his sister, and she's sensitive but doesn't have the same troubles as her brother. I totally understand how you feel knowing you may have contributed to his delays, it's such a tough feeling, especially when it's like the "damage is done".

But I promise it isn't. My mum had mental health issues throughout my childhood(she still does too), and my brother and I both have a lot of difficulties from that emotional roller coaster. She never sought help or addressed it. You and I have the advantage of awareness and willingness to do our best with help. Our kids will be much better off thanks to us trying every day. You've got this

(Also covid lockdown is not your fault at all, and lack of socialising was unavoidable then)


Pearl_is_gone t1_irooj18 wrote

Research on impact of depression is different from research on why depression happens.

Be happy people are researching important topics. If you feel something more needs to be done about another issue, then do consider getting involved yourself :)


EastVanMaam t1_irn8jac wrote

Should this report come with research to help new mothers? Women have enough crap to deal with!


other_usernames_gone t1_irnnfcn wrote

That would be follow up research. No need to delay the release of the original study until solutions are found. Identifying the problem is good enough as a first step.


EastVanMaam t1_irnnufk wrote

Utter BS. Start with helping before vilifying. Science should come with empathy


NightlyWry t1_irnom2g wrote

People come with empathy. Science should come without emotions or it colors the research.


EastVanMaam t1_irnpg0g wrote

Thank you for proving my point that publishing information on Reddit that piles on mothers during a time in history where they are vulnerable is irresponsible


1nquiringMinds t1_irnrzu4 wrote

Research should not be suppressed because it might hurt your feelings.


NightlyWry t1_irnwlvv wrote

I’m a mom. I’ve got two and had two miscarriages. Stfu, please. All you have to do is replace “ primary care giver” with mother and it removes your emotional bias against information. If any primary care giver is depressed then children get spoken to less. This is a fact. The less they are spoken to the more likely it is they will be speech delayed. Fact. It isn’t personal. It’s just a thing that happens. Pointing out that it is a thing that happens also is not personal. You may be suffering from depression or have a lot of mom guilt that is causing you to take this study personally to the point you think information should be withheld from the public until they have a way to relieve you of your emotional issues. That is not their job. It is your job to seek relief. Researchers are not therapists. Emotions don’t matter.


EastVanMaam t1_irpc652 wrote

I’m very sorry that happened to you. My good friend put a bullet in her brain due to PPD, so it is personal when psuedo science put this in the ether. Your cruel response certainly proves my point as well


NightlyWry t1_irpcvll wrote

I wasn’t cruel. I was matter of fact. There is a difference. I hold no I’ll will toward you. I’m very sorry for your friend and for your loss. Pregnancy is life changing and parenthood is something else. I have ptsd from my first and from my two miscarriages. All three were extremely traumatic and my first caused immense pain for months after. Luckily, my new guy popped out in seven minutes. I also had to spend three days in the hospital after for monitoring my blood pressure. It was wonderful. I ordered room service and watched Xfiles. Having a few days to myself before I had to deal with a toddler and a new born at the same time was great. I wish the US operated like Nordic countries. But alas...morons live here.


fleapuppy t1_irnsmhl wrote

How exactly is scientific research ‘piling on’ new mothers?


cheesyshop t1_irnyn2n wrote

Interesting. Anecdotally, my mother had severe postpartum depression and I had very early language development. My father always had music, usually classical, playing in the background. I wonder if that helped mitigate the effects of my mother’s depression. Also, my mother was always a big reader so maybe she read to me. Again, I realize that my experience is just one anecdote, but those external factors might be worth further research.


rampartsblueglare t1_irp9rn2 wrote

Definitely had ppd just as covid lockdown began where I live. I think I'm educated enough on early child development and have enough resources and financial ability to have accomplished the opposite of this study. We did sign language and books from the start, despite ppd and global crisis. It's equal to feedings in families that have the resources. I don't think everyone has the same understanding or luxuries. Every skill a child has takes so many weeks or months of preparation and incremental steps before mastery. We need to do a better job in the USA with teaching parents how to support literacy and numeracy skills from age 0-5, simple behavioral support, and maybe just do a better job with infant and toddler care overall.


Alternative-Flan2869 t1_irmslrc wrote

That makes a lot of sense - a single professional mom I knew had one child not really speak until 1st grade and was put in special needs classes incorrectly. The kid was highly intelligent, especially in visual art and design, finally got re-put in gen. pop. school, and now is extremely successful.


dunnkw t1_irod511 wrote

I don’t know if this is related but when my son was a baby I was astonished at how natural my wife was at evoking sounds and attention from our newborn while o could barely get his attention.

But now that he’s a high schooler all he wants to do is lift weights and drink straight from the blender so I came out on top on this one. Got my own little gym bro.


Dragoness42 t1_irpgfpd wrote

Infants naturally respond better to higher-pitched voices (hence our instinct to "baby talk" with higher pitch when talking to anything cute). Male voices are naturally lower, so it can be a little delay before they'll prefer you over a female voice as their tendencies mature.


LoveToMix t1_irpcth8 wrote

Great more research to make mothers feel bad. Seriously tho, it’s not rocket science that health engaged parents are better. Why even put time and effort into proving that?


Foxs-In-A-Trenchcoat t1_irr6coh wrote

Targeted early intervention for infants of mothers with PPD or other problems that affect their babies.

My mom had undiagnosed PPD and undiagnosed autism, so I grew up in a home with a poverty of words. I had language delays. I wish my family had been identified and I and my siblings could have gotten early intervention to at least get us on track of normal language development.

Public health agencies can also provide parent education of how much talking and singing to babies matters, and strategies of how to do that. I received materials like that automatically when I had my babies. But this all needs to be evidence based before health authorities can promote advice.

My parents were ignorant back in the 80s. There was nothing like the information booklets that I got in the 00s. They thought babies were dumb blobs not worth talking to because they couldn't talk back and didn't understand anyway.


LoveToMix t1_is3ete0 wrote

Really good that the availability of funding can be effected by the availability of research!


mind_the_umlaut t1_irnn1te wrote

Is this because the number, frequency, intensity, duration, and variety of interactions are reduced? Maybe there are more causes of that than depression?


A_Drusas t1_irnvkgt wrote

The article speculates that it's because these women speak in less infant-directed language, which is more monotonous.


kingp43x t1_irn8q9h wrote

hah, the 10 million karma guy strikes again


angelicasinensis t1_irpqmw5 wrote

my last baby (born right before the pandemic) has a speech delay and I had PPD and PPA.


JoeInAboat t1_irpricj wrote

What about the Dad? If he is the primary care giver? I imagine it is the same..


angels_exist_666 t1_irnmvi3 wrote

Crazy how it's not all alike. I have severe depression. My son's first word was diaper and he was 9 months old. Maybe because I talked to him a lot. Before he even said mama or dada. He was walking at 9 months too. He ended up bow legged and needed braces because he started so early. It was hard trying to discourage your baby from walking.


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BigBadMur t1_irov5c7 wrote

I drive a special needs young boy to and from a local school. He as ADHD, autism and delayed language. He is very quiet in his booster seat and is one of the nicest kids I have ever had the pleasure to work with.


leseilse t1_irn6dav wrote

man, this is so interesting. but how about for young adults? is there a recent study about that?


Celadorkable t1_iro3tu0 wrote

There's a theory that having a depressed caretaker can contribute to the development of adhd.


Ok-Caterpillar-Girl t1_iro7pf7 wrote

How does having a depressed caretaker cause someone yo have a genetic neurodevelopmental disorder?


Celadorkable t1_iroxodx wrote

Afaik there's no genetic test for adhd?

I'm only part way through "scattered minds", and it's just one theory, but it's pretty interesting so far. My takeaway is that some people are genetically predisposed to being "highly sensitive" (Elaine Aaron has written on this, she estimates 20% of the population is highly sensitive), and if a HSP is born into a stressful environment that can lead to adhd. I'm only up to the part explaining how babies with depressed caretakers are more stressed.


jekylwhispy t1_irppbl8 wrote

Huh well my mother has struggled long and I could read by kindergarten sooo idk


Foxs-In-A-Trenchcoat t1_irr6ixa wrote

This isn't about reading it's about speech.


jekylwhispy t1_irrbvjh wrote

I spoke very well. I was abused much for it. These things are connected. You may be unaware of it language is more fluid and vast and consequential than many realize


Mikernoce t1_irqkqr9 wrote

We are doctors and we need your money for things we can’t help or solve. We also need to remind you how your depression affects all other areas of your life too.


smoothjedi t1_irphnv8 wrote

Sounds like we need to outlaw pregnant mothers being depressed to protect the health of the child.