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Langola t1_irxf8gc wrote

Twitch and only fans are the new strip clubs of the digital age.


cannondave t1_irxs0k6 wrote

Yes Twitch is rediculous. "I wonder why men see me as a sex object"


garbage-pale-kid t1_iryl3be wrote

Men see women as sex objects if they appear in public view. Using that to my benefit doesn't change that fact, and knowing from experience that it doesn't matter how conservatively and modestly I dress means I'll do what is profitable. It'll happen either way. But I will still always wonder why men do not view me as a person.


Jackolope t1_irz2mky wrote

Feel like there's some mental gymnastics taking place in your comment.


garbage-pale-kid t1_irz2qp4 wrote

It's my lived experience and the experiences of my friends and family.


Jackolope t1_irz2xl5 wrote

Really, because the first sentence is a broad declarative statement about the nature of men and women with none of that context. Get off your little high horse.


garbage-pale-kid t1_irz3rcr wrote

I'm not on a high horse, I just care about this topic. I was literally crying about this exact issue earlier today because every time I go to this store I love going to, some dude creeps at me and I cannot just go peacefully and shop no matter how I dress or how I present myself. And thinking about my baby sister and how she has to grow up where me and my other sisters have been harassed since before we even hit puberty.


Ksradrik t1_irz0oa3 wrote

Why is being attracted to somebody automatically "objectification"?


garbage-pale-kid t1_irz0sbf wrote

Why do you think I think that way?


Ksradrik t1_irzbt2z wrote

Well, you just said "men see women as sex objects", so I was under the impression you believe its not just "some men objectify women", but most do, and the only way that'd make any sense is if you counted general attraction as objectification.


Hardwarrior t1_is01a8d wrote

Isn't it also the implication of the comment she's responding to?

"I wonder why men see me as a sex object" > This implies that men do objectify women on Twitch, just that it's their fault for putting on clothes that are too revealing.

And you're right, the main issue isn't attraction, it's the objectification, ie unwarranted comments. And those comments aren't just the result of revealing clothes, because there's a moral agent typing them. And it's that person's responsibility to behave, even if they're attracted to someone who shows a bit of skin.


Ksradrik t1_is0kwxo wrote

Seems to me that the issue is a lack of manners.


Hardwarrior t1_is3lu2q wrote

A lack of manners that women experience more than men


PuerhRichard t1_irz02f6 wrote

Men? All men? That’s a broad statement. You have to villainize the other in order to justify attacking them. It’s like how some people after 9-11 said “Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslim.” It’s not a true statement, but it does the job of pointing all the problem on one group. Women treat men like objects too often. Lots of married or divorced men or fathers say they feel like they’re a walking ATM and that’s all. Lots of times the words of some women backup this, calling them “paycheck” or “sperm donor.” It’s not uncommon either.


garbage-pale-kid t1_irz0qzm wrote

I never said all men. I said men, because it's men that do that to me. If a woman ever follows me down the street because I ignored her catcalling, or if me and other girls have to go to the bathroom in groups for safety against other girls, or if women start creeping on me while I'm waiting for the bus or minding my own business, I'll say "people do that to me". But until then, it's only men.


PuerhRichard t1_irz3lkx wrote

You didn’t say all men. That’s right. You did however say “men” which obviously implied all men. You could have done better in being more specific. You’re just backpedaling and trying to inject doubt into the topic.

Since no one usually says anything because of fear of being labeled the sexist people pull this sort of thing all day which is it’s own form of sexism justified by blaming an entire outgroup. There’s nothing inheritable wrong with men. You failed to point out that women objectify men on a site where they often get men to pay them to essentially do nothing or things they didn’t do like getting others to make fake used panties.

Sure it’s gross oftentimes and treats women poorly, but since it’s a popular way for many women’s peers to make lots of money off of men who do who knows what to make their income a lot of people feel it’s acceptable even the people who think porn made by companies is inherently objectifying towards women.


PuerhRichard t1_irz3s1u wrote

See there ya go trashing men there. You could say some men like the ones that aren’t going out of the way to protect you physically, verbally, and emotionally.


garbage-pale-kid t1_irz4063 wrote

There are no, and have never been men in my life who protect me.


PuerhRichard t1_irz5fbv wrote

Ok great well keep blaming all men and acting like you don’t. You definitely aren’t protecting them with that. You’re just trying to boost your value by dumping on others.

By the way no man of fighting age was allowed to leave the country while lots of others were on onlyfans and living abroad. That doesn’t matter to you though because you only think of yourself.


Breakfest-burrito t1_irzmf6z wrote

People seem to think their own personal experience is enough to represent the world and all of humanity. She's just jaded it feels like


Guilty-Peace-324 t1_is0ck7w wrote

You’re not the hero you think you are right now. You’re not defending victims who happen to be male or female, however you are defending monsters who happen to be men right now. You inserted “all men” to the conversation and used it to redirect the conversation. You’re taking part in monstery. I would recommend not being a monster. You’re probably gonna continue on though in some sort attempt feel like you have any high moral ground…


PuerhRichard t1_is14j9r wrote

Ad hominem comment. I pointed out the lack of clarity. I’m not a monster despite your need for me to be one. That’s your profile. I suggest you don’t be a hypocrite. What she was bringing up was a nonsequiter to redirect the discussion. I see you’re familiar with that so you shouldn’t have tried to pretend I did such. You have a mental block that inhibits you from being fair with men. I could have gone on about cases where I’ve known men to be victims of women: physical assault, emotional abuse, gaslighting (which you’re doing despite what you think), and familial alienation. Have some integrity and accountability rather than call people names on the internet.


onfire9123 t1_irzepya wrote

They don't see men on the tv as a person either. It's just that man doesn't provide them any other value just by being visible.


SnooDoubts826 t1_irz99fv wrote

They don't see themselves as people either. Once mortality hits, they may change their tune. Or perhaps not.


DarkTreader t1_iryi1sm wrote

Because men are slimy filthy pervs and it doesn't matter a lick how women dress or what women do certain men will immediately go with their brains have been trained to go.

I think they know exactly why men see them as a sex object, especially the ones that get paid on twitch. They declare these statements ironically because they have to cope with just how bad it is.


OLassics t1_is0b6ce wrote

I'm sorry what??? Not only you objectified women, you also are objectifying men with saying that all men are pervs-_-

Your point is so invalid I cant even guess what's your take on this


belizeanheat t1_iryu5q5 wrote

That feels true only if you're referring to that weird guy who's obsessed with a particular stripper


ebcdicZ t1_is3ho5d wrote

A few are the guy on the street asking for change.


deeplyprobing t1_irwqmio wrote

They are just normal people.


bdub939 t1_irwzn1a wrote

Sex deprived, lonely, poor communication skills, safety behind a screen. Yea normal people for sure


badchad65 t1_irx87zs wrote

Or, not different from non-users. Like the study found.


Amateursamurai429 t1_irx3y4o wrote

You know you're describing like a bjillion people in this day and age. I'd say that isn't exactly a wild stretch from normal at this point.


kaiju-cock t1_irx48wy wrote

Yea. Right. Init why social media is popular is because if the above


underwaterpizza t1_irxumr5 wrote

Yes, because paying someone for niche content they own is much worse for sex workers compared to streaming porn for free or paying a production company (many of which traffic and coerce women into producing content).

Porn is a very real and human thing. Might as well pay the people who decide to make it instead of some company profiting off of men and women’s bodies.


Strazdas1 t1_is0c3ib wrote

Thats all fine as long as you dont start parasocial relationships, which unfortunately onlyfans encourage.


MuscularFemBoy t1_irygjpf wrote

We're not talking about what's better or worse for sex workers, we're talking about if the client is as mentally healthy as genpop.


underwaterpizza t1_irza8s1 wrote

I would say that because they are willing to pay, they probably have at least put some thought into how they consume porn.

However the article states no difference.


bdub939 t1_irxvle3 wrote

There is free pornsites everywhere. I mean you are on a platform that has it. And is it niche content when you can literally see the same thing for free? And you dont think OF has predatory companies going to these content creators to boost popularity? Come on now they are literally taking advantage of hopeless people starving for that kind of attention. There isnt enough time in a day for them to interact with all the people that come across them in a day.


underwaterpizza t1_irzax44 wrote

Yes, free porn exists, but most of the free porn here is just ads for OF content. Maybe niche was the wrong word. I meant more “unique in the way that I know the content and style of this creator and how they present”.

That may be true about promotional groups, but at the end of the day, the average OF creator makes more and is subject to less physical abuse and coercion.

Financial coercion is a different topic entirely.


DarkTreader t1_iryjbal wrote

So instead of a discussion about the science, reddit makes jokes. The jokes aren't offensive, but they reveal exactly what you all think about people who use porn when the study says the exact opposite. GAWD, would it hurt you all to read the article and learn something?

>“I think the biggest takeaway here is that individuals who create and access SEM content are not significantly different than those who do not,” Litam told PsyPost. “Based on the results of our study, OnlyFans users and nonusers endorsed similar sexual attitudes. I believe this finding is important because it directly challenges stigmatizing attitudes that portray SEM users as deviant, hypersexual, and sexually permissive. Ultimately, when it comes down to sexual attitudes, we are all more alike than different.”

Oh, look at that? People who use porn are no different than you and me? People use porn because they want to get off, and it's people from all walks of life. Apparently you aren't some kind of deviant loser if you use porn.

I love a good sex joke but reddit yet again basks in the unabashed irony instead of expanding minds.


OrganicDroid t1_irz40xu wrote

Well, if you look at the survey sample in the actual study, it was concentrated mostly to one university. Take this study with some salt.


clashmt t1_iryl2hg wrote

This should be stapled to the top of the trash fest that is the comments right now.


tecberth t1_irzyuh2 wrote

Yes, the size is 700 people. They say, "no difference" but no difference from what? A Catholic conservative?


Strazdas1 t1_is0bxdl wrote

>Oh, look at that? People who use porn are no different than you and me?

I mean, how would they be, everyone use porn.


spoobydoo t1_irx55yd wrote

Conclusion: they are horny


Strazdas1 t1_is0ca0y wrote

Horny not allowed. Objectification and stuff.


Virgilizartor t1_irxykry wrote

So, they're horny enough to want porn, but not smart enough to watch it for free?


KallistiEngel t1_irxzhss wrote

Or maybe you just want to see specific people's content and actually support them? Is that so weird?

Like yeah, we all know you can get porn for free. The reason they pay isn't because they aren't aware of that. There's plenty of free music too, but people still pay for music.


Virgilizartor t1_irycsp2 wrote

People comparing producing a song or an album to taking a foot pic is the reason the musical industry's in shambles right now...


garbage-pale-kid t1_irym1e9 wrote

It's not just "taking a foot pic", there's so much work that goes into successful sex work. Creating content people want to see is a job, it takes skill and effort and time. It takes knowing your audience and catering to them, it often includes a great degree of acting and social skills, and building a persona. The camera work, lighting, and filming takes skill as well.

You might not see the value in it, but it's not because there isn't any- the music industry is in shambles for reasons unrelated to sex work.


KallistiEngel t1_irymgld wrote

It's not a 1:1 comparison, but the point is that people pay for things because they like those things and want to support the creator.


Endoroid99 t1_iryds14 wrote

Onlyfans is kind of like interactive porn. I haven't used it a lot, but a bit. Mostly as a way to give a couple bucks to support some of the people posting for free here on Reddit. Many of them have OFs too. But I still end up spending most of my time looking at porn on Reddit.

But a lot of them also take requests, and interact with their subscribers. I'm not interested but I can see why people would want to pay to get more of a "girlfriend experience".


thatscucktastic t1_iryzcvu wrote

> and interact with their subscribers.

No they don't. They use agencies and e-pimps to run their pages. Those agencies and e-pimps then employ third world labor to perform chatting on behalf of the model. It's a complete and utter scam.


Strazdas1 t1_is0cd57 wrote

>Onlyfans is kind of like interactive porn.

And thats not a good thing. It leads to parsocial relationships that have severe negative effects of your psychology.


Virgilizartor t1_irygy4t wrote

Can't say I don't understand the reasoning, but...


If you won't get a real gf why do you want a virtual one to begin with? It's just kind of counterintuitive, but maybe that's just me.


Mechanized1 t1_irypz95 wrote

Or they like compensating people for their work but go off.


madbiologist42 t1_irymu41 wrote

For some people it’s ethics. They want the worker to be paid directly. It’s like buying from your local small business vs Amazon. Yeah it’s gonna cost more, and it might take longer to get it. But it is far better than supporting a corporation that potentially abuses and underpays workers.


DigitalSteven1 t1_iryuuvr wrote

I feel like with a sample size that small, on a site that large, where the overwhelming majority of users are male, and over 1/3 of the study's OF user participants are female that this doesn't represent the average OF user.


Study stats:

  • 718 U.S. adult participants (avg. age 29)
  • 348 OnlyFans users (48% of participants)
  • 219 male (63%)
  • 129 female (37%)


OF Stats:

  • 175,000,000 users (1.9+ million creators)
  • Largest age group of users is 25-34 (? again, this comes from a small sample size of 1000, so who knows how accurate it is)
  • Avg. age of creators is 29 (? same issue as above)
  • 77% of users are male, 23% are female

348 OF users simply cannot represent 175 million users. The only way to get any worthwhile data would be if OF conducted this study about their users themselves.


Aldehyde1 t1_irz6fk5 wrote

It's a social science article with massive assumptions and flawed methodology - this sub's favorite.


messi-pelado t1_iryjo6d wrote

Please tell me this study wasn't publicly funded


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OrganicDroid t1_irynydu wrote


> “Litam and her colleagues surveyed 718 U.S. adult participants who ranged in age from 18 to 71 (average age 29). The sample included 348 OnlyFans users (219 male users and 129 female users).” “…Of the total sample, 285 self-identified as college/university students with the remaining 433 from MTurk”

Needless to say, as you can see, there are those in this thread heavily defending the point that “OnlyFans users are no different than the average person,” etc. Can I get an “….ehhh idk”?

Well, check their sample. It’s not that large, and over a third are women. Surely, this isn’t random. And over half surveyed are from one university - yet, you can make a headline ambiguous like this.


Eskanasi t1_irywxmd wrote

what sample size do you need before its big enough to be statistically significant in this context of surveys?


OrganicDroid t1_irz2tmn wrote

Open to other thoughts, but generally it doesn’t matter. Obviously, more is better if taken from a diverse pool - but when the sample is more concentrated to one university, it’s hard to see much validity no matter how many you have.


Strazdas1 t1_is0f8qz wrote

For a system with 175 million users, assuming you somehow can get the survey of of a good distribution (not just students in US) you start at 2000-3000 datapoints and go up if you want above 95% confidence.


StereoFinalAccount t1_is4ys9l wrote

Why would they be different? Any reason to think that?

The world has changed. Everyone watchs porn, everyone is lonely, to a degree.


OrganicDroid t1_is58h2i wrote

Everyone watches porn, of course.

But not everyone pays for some sort of fake online relationship.


StereoFinalAccount t1_is59ya0 wrote

I dont pay for it either, but I doubt that they are very different from you or me.

There are people that are into BSDM. More or less, accepted by mainstream society. There are more potential for abuse in it than onlyfans yet is more accepted.

Truth be told, who cares about how other people get off. If it affects your flourishing it must do very slightly compared to anything else on this world.


jazzykiwi t1_iryjv2d wrote

The results have found...they're all lonely