Comments
TooSmalley t1_itnq67i wrote
The article mentions Ready-to-Eat (RTE)
The usda defines RTE as
> Ready-to-Eat (RTE) meat and poultry products are products that are safe to eat without additional preparation, although they may receive additional preparation (for example, reheating) for a better taste or appearance. This category may include frozen meat and poultry products. Some examples of RTE products are hot dogs, luncheon meats, cold cuts, fermented or dry sausage, and other deli-style meat and poultry.
I assume that means both.
rabb1thole t1_ito02me wrote
From the article: "The study found that after deli meat at more than 90 percent and RTE salads at just less than 5 percent, soft and semi-soft cheese and RTE seafood accounted for 0.5 to 1.0 percent of listeriosis cases. Lastly, frozen vegetables accounted for 0.2 to 0.3 percent of cases." tl;dr--the RTE reference pertains to salads.
wthulhu t1_ito9pyl wrote
I can't speak to the study, but I can speak from personal experience working 10 years in restaurants from 2009 to 2019. One place I worked only bought whole meats (pastrami, roast beef, turkey, etc) and sliced portions per order at order and rewrapped the slab. We almost never had waste or spoilage.
Two places bought pre sliced, pre packaged meats. Once the packaging was open the clock ran out in roughly 24 hours before it turned.
I honestly think this has something to do with surface area exposed to potential contaminants, possibly also related is the thickness of the meat. Recall that steak can be served rare but hamburger shouldn't, due to the bacteria being unable to get into the meat.
saiyaniam t1_itqvt61 wrote
A steak is clean on the inside but needs cooking on the outside. So the middle can be rare but not the outside. Grinded meat takes the outside bacteria into the meat, And needs to be cooked all the way through. I think this may only be true for beef? Idk about other meats.
Figuurzager t1_itsayjq wrote
Pork no different, a propper pork steak is actually really tasty cooked medium imho.
SimplySheep t1_iu3hsco wrote
For Trichinella spiralis your raw (still living flesh) is very tasty.
Please stop giving dangerous and utterly stupid advice and educate yourself.
[deleted] t1_ito4fv7 wrote
[removed]
onioning t1_itr2yqh wrote
It's going to be substantially higher risk when sliced at a store instead of a processing facility. Any USDA inspected facility must be taking many actions to combat listeria. There's oodles of environmental and product testing. Strict sanitation through the use of "clean rooms." None of that happens at a grocer, and honestly most don't even come especially close to meeting the much more permissive local codes.
HazardVG t1_itscdm9 wrote
It wasn't clear so I had to dig through it and the study didn't specify either. tl;dr it's mostly meat cut at the deli counter.
From one of the linked studies it mentions:
> RESULTS
This risk assessment, using current retail contamination data for deli meat (Draughon, 2006) and
current consumer behavior data for deli meats (Cates et al., 2006) indicates that of those
listeriosis cases and deaths attributed to deli meats, approximately 83% are associated with deli
meats sliced at retail. The estimated mean number of deaths per year from L. monocytogenes in
retail-sliced deli meats was 166.9 (95% CI: 164.5 – 169.3). In contrast, the estimated mean
number of deaths from prepackaged product was 34.1 (95% CI: 33.4 – 34.9). Similarly, 919.6
(906.8-932.4) illnesses were attributed to retail-sliced product while 188.6 (184.7-192.4)
illnesses were attributed to prepackaged product.
Of the four categories of RTE deli meat, most of the predicted deaths were attributed to retail sliced product (which had a higher starting concentration) without growth inhibitor (which
allowed for greater growth rates). Almost 70% of all predicted deaths fell into this category.
The results illustrate the significant interaction between slicing location and use of growth
inhibitor.
Sensitivity analyses indicated that the percentage of deaths attributed to retail-sliced deli meats
was not appreciably affected by consumer storage time, product shelf life, or total number of
deaths.
CONCLUSIONS
Of those illnesses and deaths from L. monocytogenes from deli meat consumption,
approximately 83% are attributed to deli meat sliced and packaged at retail facilities (Endrikat et
al., 2010). The remainder is from prepackaged deli meat. Similar results were obtained by
Pradhan et al. (2010) in a study that compared the risk of listeriosis in both retail-sliced and
prepackaged ham and turkey. Studies are needed to determine how contamination of deli meat at
retail occurs and to design effective interventions for reducing listeriosis associated with the
consumption of deli meat sliced at retail.<
vainomainen t1_itsmm8l wrote
Thanks for the follow up
cbbuntz t1_itnpy5j wrote
Listeria is not something you want. Anything that causes brain damage terrifies me
Calcd_Uncertainty t1_itnuhg7 wrote
And yet you Reddit
Fuxtoifelswild t1_itopn9p wrote
It's usually asymptomatic if you're not immunosuppressed or something.
onioning t1_itr3fzf wrote
Or it kills you dead, if you are.
[deleted] t1_itpu79n wrote
[removed]
rabb1thole t1_itnzlxa wrote
One of my first jobs was in a grocery store deli. Worked there for a little over a year. In the decades since, i have never purchased deli meat or cheese.
anonymous_lighting t1_ito1vly wrote
can you shed some light on why for the rest of us?
rabb1thole t1_ito7hvg wrote
Sorry. Yes. None of this applies to a real deli, this was a mass supermarket deli. Deli meats and cheeses don't move very quickly. When the cut edge started showing its age, store managers had us slice off the end so it looked fresh. We were told to ignore expiration dates. By we, high school students. Too young to understand how wrong that was. I quit when my manager took a stack of brand name frozen pizzas that had expired dates on the boxes, removed the pizzas, and told us rewrap and sell them with deli stickers. Salads in the cases were also recycled. The old was always scooped ontop of the new so it would move first. However, there was no tracking how long a salad was kept. On the plus side, hot foods were prepared daily and not kept over, so at least there's that. Now a warehouse like Costco has enough volume I am sure so things like this would not be an issue. But your local grocery store, not so much. And that would be my advice: keep an eye on the customers getting deli meats and cheese where you shop. If the deli is busy, great. If not, maybe don't chance it.
nottu77 t1_itoih93 wrote
I’m currently in a management role with a large grocery chain, any associate caught doing any of that would be terminated immediately. Food safety is the largest issue that is constantly monitored followed very closely by personal safety. Not saying it’s impossible but very improbable, at least in my experience.
candle340 t1_itpgsln wrote
I’m a deli worker in a regional chain, and it’s the same here. Dates and temps are tracked rigorously - fudging them is one of the surefire ways to get fired. We also clean our in-use slicers every 4hrs, per OSHA standard and scrub our floor every night with an anti-listeria cleaner
UI_Tyler t1_itoslwx wrote
Any chain is scrutinized more heavily has more policy on this type of stuff. I've definitely seem mom and pop grocery stores in small towns do this stuff. Everything they throw away is money out of their pockets.
[deleted] t1_itonx5r wrote
[removed]
anonymous_lighting t1_ito8mvx wrote
i live in mid atlantic. every deli i’ve been to is thankfully popping off the charts no matter the time of day
oodelay t1_itntejk wrote
Gabagool Iz no good for you
The_Velvet_Bulldozer t1_itpclix wrote
The doctor says, “No more gabagool!”
SenorScratchySack t1_itnyp8k wrote
Must you ruin everything for me?
[deleted] t1_itpr1kx wrote
[removed]
valleyof-the-shadow t1_itnnzez wrote
I prefer it fried so no listeria, I assume above 350 degrees
MikeUlul t1_itociqj wrote
If you go to a place that appears to not stringently practice food safety standards then I'd walk out even when faced with the unpleasant experience of short term hunger.
I rather not be food poisoned.
dasoupy1 t1_itpeh5u wrote
Is this more to do with storage of say a sandwich with deli meat on it. I know a many people don’t keep sandwiches under 40° until they are consumed.
TossAwayGay92 t1_itpsh1f wrote
This study brought to you by Blue Bunny™️.
AutoModerator t1_itnhy5o wrote
Welcome to r/science! This is a heavily moderated subreddit in order to keep the discussion on science. However, we recognize that many people want to discuss how they feel the research relates to their own personal lives, so to give people a space to do that, personal anecdotes are now allowed as responses to this comment. Any anecdotal comments elsewhere in the discussion will continue to be removed and our normal comment rules still apply to other comments.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
[deleted] t1_ito6arm wrote
[deleted]
Diztrakted t1_its5vf7 wrote
666 likes? I ain't touching that.
thudslife t1_itnuhef wrote
If the color changed dont eat it. It last like 4 or 5 days in your fridge
candle340 t1_itpsvmo wrote
Color change isn’t always a good indicator - exposed ham and bologna will pale/turn grey in a relatively short time just from light. Instead, rely more on smell/texture. If it smells bad/rancid or is slimy, it’s best to toss it. Most cold cut meats will last between 3-5 days in your fridge, but can last longer or shorter depending on the quality of the meat and how cold your fridge is. Salami and pepperoni often last up to two weeks. Soft or semi-soft cheeses should be consumed within a week of being opened - and sooner is better for processed cheeses. Hard cheeses (no processed cheddars and Italians like parmesan and Romano) do last longer, though, and it’s often enough to trim away any moldy bits.
sonoma95436 t1_itqedad wrote
White cheese especially the Mexican white cheese caused lots of outbreaks in Southern California over the last few decades.
Electr_O_Purist t1_itqbjvz wrote
Just another reason to cease eating corpses.
nikon_guy87 t1_itnrsya wrote
Seriously though, can listerene prevent listeria? I see these TikTok’s about NyQuil chicken, I’m assuming to kill the Quilla bacteria .. why not listerene deli meats to cure the listeria..
SpectralMagic t1_itnvx3k wrote
genius! It might also work to put super delicious cuts of the meat in the package alongside the terrible meat since the viruses only eat the good stuff :brain: Youd have unspoiled terrible regular deli cuts all to yourself
nikon_guy87 t1_ito0f8c wrote
I don’t think that would work.. but I mean possibly? Cause wouldn’t like the bacteria want the good Meat as well ? Is there a subreddit for asking a Germolosist ?
ANTImunky89 t1_ito4un0 wrote
Don't ever eat NyQuil chicken
SAI_Peregrinus t1_itqs40r wrote
To quote the bottle: "If more than is used for rinsing is accidentally swallowed, get medical help or contact a poison control center right away."
You really don't want to be consuming it. Washing or soaking food in Listerine is a bad idea.
vainomainen t1_itnmo2q wrote
Not clear from the synopsis, but is this primarily pre sliced and packaged, or is this say sliced at your local grocery store/deli? Or do both options have approximately equal rates?