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4thDevilsAdvocate t1_is99hl7 wrote

Mind you, this doesn't mean that anti-Alzheimer's drugs shouldn't be developed. It just means that, currently, exercise is more effective than them.


Due-Enthusiasm5656 t1_is9hv8l wrote

Exercise is also said to be better than any SSRI for people who don't have severe depression. - Genius Foods by Max Lugavere with Paul Grewal, MD


4thDevilsAdvocate t1_is9m1xr wrote

Even if the depression's not severe, that depends on the depression.

If, as some have theorized, learned helplessness is a driving force behind depression, it might be that the person in question fundamentally cannot believe exercise can change their life for the better, regardless of what science or their therapist says, and that SSRIs (or psychedelics, or some other chemical actor) are what are needed to snap them out of it.

Depression is really a bit different from any other disease. Unlike most other diseases, the behavioral changes it causes can lead people to avoid treatment; a common cold or bipolar disorder aren't self-reinforcing, but depression is. Sure, certain mental illnesses might make someone harder to treat, because the behavior of person inflicted with them makes it harder for them to seek treatment, but few mental illnesses make people actively and consciously decide they should avoid being treated — like, "I know something's very wrong with me, but it's better for everyone else if I just crawl off into a corner to die", as opposed to a mere "I forgot where my meds are".


Due-Enthusiasm5656 t1_is9p6cs wrote

Even diet has a huge role in depression. Your microbiome has 30 trillion live bacteria who need fiber and the right nutrients and they send signals up the Vagus nerve to influence almost everything. Left alone what nutrient deficiencies can do.

-source: Max Lugavere's and Paul Grewal's MD, Genius Foods


SnooDoubts826 t1_isbo1lr wrote

how is this not common knowledge though?! I'm scared for humanity when I (and you) are the only people I've ever seen talking about this.


greysneakthief t1_iscw3eh wrote

It's partially because the exact role of intestinal microbiome is still under scrutiny and research. Claims like the one above, while sounding like definitive knowledge, are working theories. No doubt microbiome has an impact on general health, but to what extent is still under some intense debate.


SnooDoubts826 t1_isdgmfo wrote

Obviously if a living creature doesn't get it's required sustenance (proper nutrition), it's health is going to fail. What is there to debate?


Due-Enthusiasm5656 t1_isdq5gf wrote

Seems pretty close to defininitve to me, I'm not waiting for years of research. Scientists are even calling the microbiome "The Forgotten Organ".


Due-Enthusiasm5656 t1_iscihq3 wrote

I guess it's easier not to for people. This comment was -2 before some people came along and voted it up. People want any excuse not to change their diet.


Portalrules123 t1_isc2urh wrote

Don't forget the structural factors in society that contribute to depression as well, we can't completely individualize it which makes it harder to fully combat.


[deleted] t1_isdt4zv wrote



4thDevilsAdvocate t1_isdv1gx wrote

A bit, I suppose, but I think the difference is that bipolar disorder lets you still want to get better but hate the treatment that actually makes you better, whereas depression can make you not want to get better, period.


TornShadowNYC t1_ise68en wrote

appreciate your point. that said, as a medical social worker i see the the more severe the mental illness, the less likely it is that a person has insight, and more likely it is that they tend to decline to take psychotropic meds. unfortunately i don't have research on this but it's widely understood amongst my colleagues that people with serious mental illness will likely decline to start/ continue psychotropic medications. they don't see the need.


TheWaywardJellyBean t1_isf0iya wrote

When I have SAD hits around the end of January/February exercise, a healthy diet and my sunlamp are often some of the only things keeping me from an episode of severe depression. I feel my most calm and at peace when exercising (meaning not feeling apathetic, listless or sad). It's usually a lifeline for me in those months. I know it's good for me so I force myself. Although with SAD (at least for me) unlike typical depression, I don't think really negatively about myself (no negative self talk), it's more zero energy/fatigue, feeling very apathetic or sad, struggle to experience happy emotions, inability to focus, and things don't bring enjoyment.


CanuckInTheMills t1_isdn7m4 wrote

Proper sleep, organic plant based eating, regular exercise & lots of social engagement. Is the best prevention for not developing dimentia.


[deleted] t1_isa33am wrote



BlueberryPiano t1_isa8z7t wrote

Actual research has shown the exact opposite.

Might want to read up about sampling bias instead of basing your very generalized conclusion on a very narrow sample of people who participate in MMA/Combat sports


Teddy_Icewater t1_isb0o2b wrote

I hate how half the studies that get posted here are paywalled.


huzernayme t1_isaux79 wrote

The only exercise right wingers do around here is lifting KFC up to their mouths.


Technical-Mind-3266 t1_isbwi62 wrote

Oh indeed, exercise and a healthy diet go a long way to prevent and minimise all sorts of issues the human race faces at the moment


doveup t1_is9ajtj wrote

Its the Great Anti-inflammatory.

The Grim Reaper study.


4thDevilsAdvocate t1_is9bfcf wrote

It's the great everything, really.

Speaking entirely anecdotally, exercise is also good at improving one's mental health, balancing sleep cycles and appetite, and, for some reason I'm sure there's a scientific explanation for, cutting down on acne.

With some notable exceptions, most of the human body's built around a hunter-gatherer lifestyle, which involves lots of exercise. All the stereotypical old-time talk about how people who aren't actually sick but just generally unwell "just need to get out of the house" and "just need some fresh air" is not entirely inaccurate.


GrumpyMiddleAgeMan t1_isa15wy wrote

I started a good / bad routine: I smoke a joint, and then I start to walk in a good rhythm while I'm listening some audiobooks. I know the joint part is a no no, but it allows me to keep the attention in the story (I may have some undiagnosed issues with attention).

I'm currently walking between an hour, hour and half per day, being fat and sedentary. And I'm surprised at how good I feel every day since I started, physical and mentally.


4thDevilsAdvocate t1_isa1dzi wrote

If it works, it works.


Queasy-Bite-7514 t1_isa4g1i wrote

Why a no no? It gets you out and doing stuff


GrumpyMiddleAgeMan t1_isa55pe wrote

Because I don't think smoking a joint is a good thing, and even worse if I do it while I'm doing exercise. But I can be wrong. Hopefully haha. I would love to be wrong.


MoonWispr t1_isaishm wrote

Smoking in general isn't great, obviously, but if that's what it takes to get you active for now then it's worth it! If you can get edibles where you're at, same end effect but less smoke.

For some people exercise is it's own high, helps focus them. Helps remove distractions and stress of life. I think to get there you already have to be in shape enough to handle longer more intense sessions, though. So maybe a longer term goal!


candidateforhumanity t1_isd9quh wrote

Dude getting high can be FUN for some people but don't let marketing convince you that it's not always unhealthy.


kowalsko6879 t1_isqtoj8 wrote

Nice triple negative, maybe you should lay off the drugs


Fuzzycolombo t1_isd2wmg wrote

I do feel as if THC might be actually motivating for certain individuals. There’s the lazy stoner stereotype, but for me, I’ll be hopelessly depressed and then inhale some THC concentrate and instantly be engaged playing my guitar or going for a bike ride. I will say that most of my THC usage is driven by social isolation, so if I’m surrounded in a social environment that is stimulating to me (the people accept me, i seek out interaction with them because it is enjoyable to me), then I don’t feel the need to use THC. The second Im alone though or with people I can’t stand I just want to go get high to go do my jam.


Splatulance t1_is9jdhl wrote

Those aren't just anecdotal. They have a lot of support, though I'm not sure about the acne. Exercise does improve immune function, so that's one possible link. I'm sure someone has looked into it.


bsubtilis t1_is9qxb8 wrote

There was some study an eternity ago that showed low level activity was better for sick people's health and recovery than constant bed rest.


PoldsOctopus t1_isa23ae wrote

I’m post op and the recommendation is to get out of bed from the day of the surgery and start mild exercise starting on the next day (walking + a special exercise routine). It’s my third one and it’s been always the same advice : don’t stay in bed all day.


dotcomse t1_isdwvey wrote

That might be more about preventing atrophy than about healing your surgical site. Hard to say. Doctors, especially surgeons, have not been known for their focus on diet and nutrition and holistic medicine.


PoldsOctopus t1_isemsmj wrote

Well, I was told that the goal was to prevent blood clots, improve mobility, accelerate healing and promote general well-being. I was given different information sheets that included recommendations on diet in preparation and after surgery as well a special exercise routine. I was offered psychological support before one of my surgeries. So I’m glad to say that my doctors have a holistic approach.


[deleted] t1_isa38qk wrote



bsubtilis t1_isafkbm wrote

Exercising with high intensity while you are sick is directly bad for you and can even mess up your heart (a common problem for athletes). The study was just to check if all activity was bad for you when you were sick, or if only some was. Low level activity is isn't really exercising, high level activity is exercising.


IndescribableRuckus t1_is9rka9 wrote

Not a scientist, but I've always felt that sweating is the best way to clean your skin. I can't imagine that there is any topical product that can be as effective as a process that's been bioengineered for thousands of years.


gauchocartero t1_isah59s wrote

Look at some of the proteins upregulated in the chart: YAP1, ITGB1, VASP, EZR, EGFR, RHOQ, NFKB, CDK2… All of these proteins are associated with increased tension in the cellular microenvironment as a result of abnormal matrix deposition, inflammation, oxidative stress.


athena_k t1_isboot9 wrote

Interesting study. Thanks for sharing


1714alpha t1_is9d9bo wrote

If they could make a miracle pill that would do the same thing as a good night's sleep and a trip to the gym, you couldn't make them fast enough, and someone would become a trillionaire. I'm glad that sleep and exercise are inherently free, though I understand why they're not easy for everyone.


Fuzzycolombo t1_isd2zok wrote

Don’t they say that anything that’s worth it doesn’t come easy?


1714alpha t1_isd7vdy wrote

I dunno, sunshine and naps are free and easy, and pretty damn worthwhile. Things like that only become expensive or difficult because we live in a dystopian hellscape that makes basic functions of life difficult and expensive.


Fuzzycolombo t1_isdaz5o wrote

Sure but cooking and eating healthy meals and making time to exercise day in day out is difficult for many people


1714alpha t1_isdbmj2 wrote

And why exactly are our modern lives so overwhelmingly hectic? It's the artificial demands of our industrialized society. Yes yes, benefits and trade offs, but at least most of our ancestors had enough time to go for a walk and take a nap each day if they wanted to. It sucks that most of us just don't seem to have any breathing room in our own lives anymore.


faafiel t1_ise4ljy wrote

It takes 20 minutes to run 2km if you are unhealthy. If you are decently healthy, you can run 2km in 10 minutes.

Running 20 minutes a day is not a lot of time. Tv shows are 45 minutes long


Fuzzycolombo t1_isek2ns wrote

It’s not difficult in terms of finding the time it’s difficult in terms of finding the motivation. If it weren’t so hard to form consistent exercise routines why do so little people do it?


im_a_dr_not_ t1_isd84b1 wrote

Yea but we also drive cars, take planes too far away destinations, and use phones to talk instead of seeing someone in person every time we need to talk.

Not to mention basic things like the wheel, the ramp, pulleys, and the lever.

>Don’t they say that anything that’s worth it doesn’t come easy?

Science can do it better and easier.


Fuzzycolombo t1_isdasem wrote

Yes and science says that diet and exercise are one of the best strategies to combat cognitive decline and illness. You’re arguing a completely separate point from what I’m implying, which is that to really improve your life you have to do the difficult things which we all know to do but are stubborn to follow through on, and not take the easy way out.


retarded_virgin_1998 t1_isoiqc3 wrote

We did come close with a product called GW50156 (cardarine) but animal studies showed an increase cancer risk.


[deleted] t1_is9rp60 wrote

Why does everything have to be exercise


TinFoilHeadphones t1_isa33r9 wrote

It's just a basic necessity of the body that people often overlook (for several reasons).

Sleeping, eating, exercising.


mattjshermandotcom t1_isasv3y wrote

Because it's the one thing that is required and that hardly anyone wants to do. Out of all of the people I have known the amount of people that regularly exercise is at most 5%. The amount of people eating a plant based diet, or at least considering their diet at all, is about the same.

The problem is that in nature, as hunter-gatherers, these issues weren't present b/c we were forced to exercise, for survival, and our diets had limited processing and more fiber. The meat was tougher, hence the need for cooking, and it was also leaner.

What's funny to me is that once you are an "exerciser" you can see it in the face shape/color of people. You can tell when someone is just thin from not eating but still in weird way "thin flabby" and in poor muscular health. You can tell when someone has good cardiovascular health and you can also tell when someone has poor CV health because they only lift weights and can't run a mile.


historical_regret2 t1_isbepgx wrote

“Hardly anyone wants to do it.”

The effect of socialization is huge. In my circles, virtually everyone exercises - I’d say >80%. It’s the default.

Edit: When I go back home to a rural/semi-rural area where I grew up, and obesity is rampant and virtually nobody exercises, the way they treat exercise is just perverse. Virtually all of their lives is set up to avoid raising their heart rate above resting. The default weekend is couches and TVs. Anything that raises your heart rate is to be bitched about to no end - having to walk "too far" across a parking lot, having to mow the lawn, etc. Exercise, at best, is for very young kids - once you hit adulthood, you never run five consecutive steps again. And exercise for health's sake, if it ever happens, only happens when it is prescribed by a doctor - for men, often not until heart problems arise or physiotherapy is necessary.

I went back over the holidays a few years back and was amazed at how the local gym/weight room was virtually empty on a regular evening. Had the whole place practically to myself. Went to grab groceries afterward and the store was packed with people who were obese, gray-skinned, and who frankly looked years if not decades older than they were. Guys my age - and I'm middle-aged - legitimately look like they could be my father, and not in a good way. In a fat, gray, over-the-hill way. It's honestly pathetic and I can't help but see it as both a symptom and cause of national decline - you cannot have vast swaths of the population be so physically unwell and miserable and prematurely old and expect to have a healthy, happy society.


[deleted] t1_isb0dzq wrote

I like to think my job is my workout which it is I walk miles and miles in a day and lift heavy things. Climb up and down stairs and ladders. So I try


dontknowhatitmeans t1_isblr7v wrote

What job is that? I was about to say mailman but can't recall lifting heavy things being part of the job description.


Teddy_Icewater t1_isb18cm wrote

5%?? Wow that's incredibly low. I guess I'm lucky to have an active social circle.


QuasiIceQueen t1_isaci0f wrote

Move your blood around and get oxygen where it needs instead of being sedentary. There’s more on that but on the face that’s it.


InTheEndEntropyWins t1_isb99vh wrote

Your brain/body needs exercise to work properly. If you don't exercise it will break down and stop working properly.


[deleted] t1_isbccbm wrote

My grandpa used to say that if you don't use your body you lose it. He always was working on something pretty much up untill he passed away. Didn't drink didn't smoke and drank black coffee.


Fuzzycolombo t1_isd3ckd wrote

Exercise doesn’t have to be awful. A light walk with a friend counts and is both physically and mentally stimulating and incredibly healthy, probably even healthier than lifting super heavy weights or running marathons.


MsHamadryad t1_is9fds4 wrote

Are there any suggestions for minimum exercise level to maintain health and mitigate cognitive decline?


RJKY_42 t1_is9om18 wrote

Harvard Health says:

"The recommendation is 30 minutes of moderately vigorous aerobic exercise, three to four days per week."


Pinball-O-Pine t1_is9fvuo wrote

Stay mentally active, physically minimally active, and keep a confident attitude that you are in-tune with the particular way that fits your comfort.


grewapair t1_isdllzc wrote

I taught at every gym in a large city and my advice to anyone wanting to send someone over 50 into one of them is to perhaps start there but move on. I taught a true high intensity interval training program until I was 56 and every gym begged me to tone it far down. I finally was fired from a high end gym because they had developed an ultra low intensity version of the class I taught and I refused to teach it.

What someone over 50 will get shunted into is a Tai Chi style class where you'll lift your arms up and take three steps, and hey, see you next week. I know that everyone has to start somewhere, but if you don't advance out of that class and ultimately out of the gym, you aren't going to make much difference in your life.

The typical chain gyms know most people don't actually want to do anything but say they went to the gym. They absolutely cater to that market. If you want to start there, fine, but move on.


[deleted] t1_isa3fp5 wrote



noscreamsnoshouts t1_isanvv8 wrote

And what would a more realistic idea be for the couch potatoes, the chronically ill, and the old or handicapped among us..?

I mean, this sounds quite ambituous and intimidating, which could actually discourage people to start exercising..


bicycle_mice t1_isaqooy wrote

Move as much as you safely can. There are many adaptive exercise classes out there (peloton app, YouTube, etc). Move what you can. Some movement is better than no movement,


dr-freddy-112 t1_isb157a wrote

It's weird how almost everything that relates to poor health is tied to a sedentary lifestyle, including mental health. It's almost like we weren't meant to just sit around all day.


personalityson t1_isolcwo wrote

We weren't meant to live past 40


dr-freddy-112 t1_isolupz wrote

Being sedentary is the surest way to have a life full of health issues and physical pain.

Humans don't have some weird cap around 40. It's probably closer to like 60ish. Barring disease and famine, living to your late 50s or 60s without major issues is pretty common.


jakethedukefan t1_isbwqfj wrote

I first did Alzheimer’s research starting in 2016 in a neurobiology lab. The clinicians then said the same thing. Nothing has changed


Mokebe890 t1_is9ota6 wrote

Right, for now. Discovering pathways and changes that excercise change in humans we potentialy in future can make a lot better working drug. But in future and excercise is always nice so.


bsubtilis t1_is9q2p2 wrote

Yeah, and exercise isn't as much of an option for e.g. paralyzed people as it is for able-bodied people.


MadroxKran t1_isb6cav wrote

I wonder if we're going to see a massive spike in Alzheimer's in western countries with the vast majority of people living sedentary lives.


Queasy-Bite-7514 t1_isa48vv wrote

But doctor should I take Prevagen? (After long discussion about exercise )


TrinkieTrinkie522cat t1_isb5tzk wrote

My dad was very active and exercised daily. It had no effect on ALZ.


Euphoric-Moment t1_isbepon wrote

It’s not something that works 100% of the time unfortunately. I used to work as a research assistant for a geriatric psychiatrist. We were part of several clinical trials including one that tested the effects of positive actions on Alzheimer’s. People in the positive action group were asked to exercise. We had a book club and card games for mental stimulation. For the most part the positive actions group fared better than any of our other trials. This is an average though and there was a wide range of individual results.

It’s also worth noting that this was 10+ years ago and everyone eventually succumbed to their illness. Progression was slower on average for the active group and self reported sense of well-being was higher. Still not great, but better than it could have been.


RunRevolutionary9019 t1_isdtaa8 wrote

My dad exercised so regularly. Ate really well. Never drank. Never smoked. Died at 73 from dementia. Wasted away. I really think it’s this genetic disorder we have because my brain felt like it was melting until I took methylated vitamins. I was in my mid forties and got evaluated for dementia. They said it was adhd but my adhd was never like that until then. Thankfully I’m feeling a lot better these days.


Icelandicstorm t1_isfhnmu wrote

Hey can you elaborate? I think I can relate to what you’re saying. I’d like to learn more.


RunRevolutionary9019 t1_isfimq0 wrote

I have a genetic disorder called a methylation disorder that is generally mild. But we have the two worst subtypes and they don’t get along as far as treatment goes which makes things tricky. I also did a lot of dumb things like drugs and getting a flu that made things a lot worse. My dad started having issues in his fifties and I started in my late thirties. But I’m treated unlike him so hoping I’ll be ok. What exactly do you want to know? It causes folate and b12 absorption issues. My doctor said fifty percent of dementia patients have low folate levels so it makes sense that dementia runs in my family given we all have this type of this disorder.


6poundpuppy t1_isleww1 wrote

It is very good to know that exercise can help keep dementia at bay, however……I wish it had been specified what the study’s definition of exercise was, exactly. Walking? Or more rigorous exercise? For a non-scientist, but medically knowledgeable person, this was an interesting but highly technical scientific study with in depth explanations I couldn’t possibly understand, ultimately meaning I had to skim through 99% of it to find the meat of it….and I still do not know how much or what kind of exercise to focus on. I do actually realize this sub is probably not for lay people, but I’m a curious sort.


shadesofaltruism OP t1_isnfm1e wrote

This is how I look for what you're looking for:

> A human CNS study comparing individuals with high versus low or high versus medium lifetime activity^16 were the first and third top matches

There's a PDF of citation 16: which:

> All tissues were obtained from the midhippocampus region containing all hippocampal subfields. Participants were diagnosed as cognitively intact based on annual assessment of cognitive status using a battery of 19 cognitive tests, at which time they were additionally assessed for other lifestyle factors including cognitive frequency, social frequency, and depression, among other variables (Bennett et al., 2012). Participants underwent annual assessment of physical activity using actigraphs worn continuously over multiple days

...and here we find the full text of Bennett et al., 2012:

but there's no actigraphy data included in the paper, so likely the authors just had it on hand from this earlier data collection, and used it for the parent study that was posted.

The most you can glean from this is that having a high level of physical activity confers some benefit compared to sedentary behavior.


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NobleGasTax t1_isca7jd wrote

This has been known for over a decade.

Shame the drug companies can't profit from your cardio respiratory health


Gayfunguy t1_iscemr6 wrote

Truely a disease of inactivity then. These legs are made for walking.


Franks_wild_beers t1_iscjp64 wrote

Sooo.......A wank a day keeps Alzheimer's away. Amirite?


ukcycle t1_iscxzpu wrote

Well I'll keep riding my bike then!


WackSparrow t1_isdtysw wrote

Hopefully this drug doesn’t get approved, especially if it’s biogen. More research is needed.