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ALEX7DX t1_isss93o wrote

Is there anything it can’t do?


Dawrin t1_istn92o wrote

It is incredible just how many secondary conditions it brings out. I’ve been following the uptick in autoimmune diabetes (t1) as the pandemic wears on, I am among the people who were diagnosed in that timeframe so this is partially a selfish interest.

But again I’m struck by just how many things get brought on, I get that it is an incredibly challenging disease for the body to handle and it seems to get into so many systems from the brain to the endocrine. We will be seeing new articles about these things and long covid for a long time it seems


ashkestar t1_isu133n wrote

To be fair, autoimmune diseases have upticks after pretty much any widespread viral illness. It’s something we’ve known about, but now we’re seeing it on a new scale because so many people have been infected with this one.


CornishCucumber t1_isv2dw3 wrote

I had Graves disease - a thyroid autoimmune disease almost immediately after the pandemic hit. Perfectly healthy, no history of it in my family, then boom - 3 years of my life effectively ruined. I don't think it's a coincidence at all.


jpk073 t1_it3iusi wrote

I have Graves too but I got it pre-pandemic. Was perfectly healthy and boom here we go. I think I had a weird virus first, flu-like symptoms but not the flu.


CornishCucumber t1_it3k9yx wrote

Now you mention it... Exactly the same as me. In the UK - had some kind of flu about 2 months before the pandemic. I had flu like symptoms around the Christmas time (November I think). Diagnosed with Graves 2 months later.


MovingClocks t1_isu314x wrote

It helps that this is a superantigen that bears similarity to more than a few proteins in the body.


VoilaVoilaWashington t1_isuu7qy wrote

I'm curious about how much of this will be unique to COVID-19. A friend of mine has long covid, with substantially reduced energy and all that, which was severe for over 6 months after he got out of the hospital... on oxygen for 4 weeks.

Any severe infection or injury is going to have various long-term effects, and we already know that many viruses can cause a lot of these knock on effects.

This isn't to minimize the effects of covid, but rather to advise that we shouldn't be dismissing the next pandemic just because it's not killing people in the short term. Balancing short term pain for society against millions of people with lifelong effects from the disease is difficult, but there has to be one.


3kixintehead t1_isuq93h wrote

Its because its such a generalist disease. Most people have been referring to it as just another respiratory disease for most of the pandemic, but its entry receptor is all over the body in particular vascular cells and epithelial cells. Anything that affects the vascular system has the potential to affect everything.


Nurokatt t1_isukexs wrote

Considering all the various organs and systems it can affect, I'm curious to see its relationship and effects on the fascial system, which pervades the entire body down the cellular level.


happysheeple3 t1_isu474m wrote

I hope we get one that explores a possible risk stratification for serious outcomes from covid-19 with varying intakes of added sugars (sucrose, fructose and high fructose corn syrup)

The average American consumes around 57 pounds of sweeteners per year. Added sugars including sucralose and aspartame have been found to be Pro-inflammatory and could very well take a large part of the blame for the covid-19 "cytokine storms" described in the literature.

>Fructose pathway involved in oxidative stress and inflammation. In the hepatocyte, fructose sugar is rapidly metabolized by KHK, depleting ATP and resulting in uric acid accumulation. Uric acid activates NADPH oxidase with production of ROS, which activates mitochondrial ROS production and stimulates UPR in ER. ER stress may also activate mitochondrial ROS production and vice versa. Moreover, ER stress contributes to progression of hepatic steatosis activating lipogenic genes via PERK, ATF4, and IRE1 and inducing SREBP-1c that increases the activity of ACC and FAS. As a response of excessive oxidative stress, inflammatory and apoptotic pathways are activated through JNK, NFkB, and CHOP, resulting in an increased production of cytokines (IL1ß, TNFa, IL19), which plays an important role in the development of NASH.


greyrobot6 t1_isukecm wrote

Recently started acupuncture for tendinitis in my arm that has been extremely resistant to treatment for ongoing 3 months now. Can’t get past the pain. Dr put me on a keto diet for 2 wks to jumpstart decreasing the inflammation in all of my body due to sugar. The only time I actively put sugar in anything was the 2 tsp in my morning coffee, then water all day. I don’t even have a sweet tooth. But everything else I’ve been consuming has so much added sugar! Products that are labeled light have more added sugar than full fat products. There is so much more, it’s been eye opening and I’m already feeling a difference. This has made me getting Covid as I am right now an even bigger fear.


aelis68 t1_isv1mqk wrote

Interesting. I had issues with my arm pre-CoVID that disappeared after a few months of Vitamin D 10k iu/daily after testing showed I had almost none. I’m convinced that helped me stay CoVID free until finally coming down with it last month.


happysheeple3 t1_isus0ew wrote

I'm so happy to hear a Dr. that's willing to say that! So many of them mindlessly believe what they're taught in school which in many cases is antiquated or outright false information. It warms my heart to hear that!

If you don't partake in marijuana already, try a THC tincture. Make sure it's full spectrum and isn't flavored. I had inflammation which I saw great improvement in when I started. CBD can work too, but it isn't as strong and the effects don't last as long, at least in my personal experience.

If you're easily addicted to things, stick with cbd.


greyrobot6 t1_isutyb0 wrote

Indica every night for sleep. It does help with the pain until I fall asleep as well but the straight CBD tincture hasn’t worked as well for me and being stoned all day isn’t an option for me. I didn’t notice any obvious improvement with the inflammation anyway. The herbs the Dr has me on taste pretty horrendous but have helped considerably already.


happysheeple3 t1_isvq1ib wrote

I take it before bed and I don't ever feel high. It only takes 25mL of the full spectrum tincture to get results. Music will sound a little nicer, but no head rush unless I overdo it with like 75mL.


Pinktuxcat t1_isvjfza wrote

I have a coworker who developed diabetes from covid as well, it's not being managed well mostly because her doctor is a moron and she hangs on his every word. She does not need to use insulin as far as I know. Is there any specific treatment you've been doing? Any advice I could pass on?


Dawrin t1_isw3zu1 wrote

I think that most people could appreciate the care and effort from somebody else wishing the best for them, but I personally (and many of the folks from /r/diabetes_t1) wouldn’t appreciate somebody suggesting how they should improve on managing their new disease. Everyone goes through the adjustment process differently and that honestly could be more of a setback.

But I will say I was misdiagnosed as t2 for several months until I visited with an endocrinologist who ordered the right tests to differentiate between the two (c Peptide to determine insulin production and an antibody test to determine autoimmunity).

Now I don’t know what your relationship with your coworker is, but I wouldn’t say anything unless they asked for any input. I understand the frustration of seeing somebody not doing well in managing their issues but this is really a “they need to help themselves before you can help them”.


Strazdas1 t1_isx3lpf wrote

The receptors it attacks are present in many parts of the body so the lasting effects will undoubtedly also be varied.


Minimum-Passenger-29 t1_isukg9i wrote

Incredible is the word alright. Nothing that has been said about this virus has been credible, not a damn thing.


Zachbnonymous t1_isu05f2 wrote

Makes me wonder if other ailments don't have these risks too, but they just haven't been researched as much


bigthingstuff t1_iswp47w wrote

Most other ailments don’t attack the entire body the way COVID does.


GrokFu t1_isvno6m wrote

It can’t go away apparently


WhatIfIToldUu t1_isvjqz4 wrote

Inhibit actual scientific data for the garbage shots.


NotYourSnowBunny t1_isstjum wrote

I think I’d seen a study linking people with schizophrenia to being more likely to have COVID or a severe infection. Does anyone have that link?

As someone who never got sick I always thought it was odd how mental illnesses and infection were linked.


VistaCruiserJesus t1_ist2ptv wrote

This is totally me spitballing, but I wouldn’t be surprised if schizophrenic people are on average higher stress. Higher levels of cortisol will decrease the strength of your immune system.


DrAdubyale t1_isuq8bv wrote

That's the thing. There are so many plausible hypotheticals that its hard to tell. Like that makes perfect sense. But so do a lot of other options


MikeWalt t1_isuyhf7 wrote

Is say it's more likely that schizophrenics are living in communal spaces (shelters etc) and working low wage jobs which tend to be higher risk for infection.


NotYourSnowBunny t1_ist34a0 wrote

Interesting. I’ve no idea what the correlation was from and I don’t have the study on hand.


Strict-Ad-7099 t1_iste5am wrote

As someone who caught it twice (in spite of vaccines), it affected my cognitive function for about three months post infection. Between feeling uncertain if memories were actually real/dreams, forgetting what I was saying constantly, and a major inability to focus - I became pretty depressed. I assume the high anxiety and depression people with long COVID have comes from both the symptoms and the mechanisms of COVID.


leahcantusewords t1_isu062c wrote

A little anecdote, my fiance has fairly severe schizophrenia, but is very well treated and managed. When she got covid, she caught it while outside wearing a mask. Her covid symptoms were horrible and she probably should have gone to the hospital (but she didn't). She also gets sick alllllll the time, covid aside. Only an anecdote but it was related to your posed question.


Absolute_Walnut69420 t1_isyb1xj wrote

I believe that certain mental illnesses in certain cases can be stimulated by an immuno inflammation response


fireindeedhot t1_isu1h8x wrote

Toubasi et al., 2021 A.A. Toubasi, R.B. AbuAnzeh, H.B.A. Tawileh, R.H. Aldebei, S.A.S. Alryalat A meta-analysis: the mortality and severity of COVID-19 among patients with mental disorders Psychiatry Res., 299 (2021), Article 113856


youth-in-asia18 t1_isugky3 wrote

this is just spit balling, but if you do enough studies you’ll find some spurious correlations


roostertree t1_isyq2jd wrote

>if you do enough studies you’ll find some spurious correlations

That's not sound reasoning. Poorly designed studies make poor results, not the frequency of study. I'm amazed a moderator has let it stand.

"I braked so much OF COURSE I hit something."


youth-in-asia18 t1_isytcqx wrote

not sure how that isn’t sound. there’s a whole field of statistics dedicated to controlling for this type of statistical error within studies, why would it not be true of studies on a meta-level?

i agree that most studies i see here are poorly designed. so you’re right, you do enough poorly designed studies you’ll find some spurious correlations.


roostertree t1_isz784h wrote

Good point. I likely underestimate the amount of COVID study going on. Maybe too many craptastic "freedom convoy" tweets have passed my eyeballs.

Though I am disappointed that "could"s and "may"s make such big headlines, which helps drive speculation..


youth-in-asia18 t1_iszj4fx wrote

yeah it’s honestly upsetting, i would like r science to be about science but instead it seems to have mostly a large bias towards sensationalism and a small bias towards neoliberal politics


[deleted] t1_istcb64 wrote



[deleted] t1_isthicz wrote



[deleted] t1_isti09e wrote



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Bullehh t1_isuz5gu wrote

Next we'll find out that COVID actually killed all of us and we are "living" in an episode of Lost.


Strazdas1 t1_isx3qea wrote

So in the end it will all be just a dream?


Neat_Youth470 t1_isszilx wrote

I am very interested in more studies on this, particularly with epigenetic Covid exposure.

What about the more mild cases?

My 17 year old has had Covid three times despite vaccination and our best efforts at always masking, etc. 22 year old child has had it once. spouse has had it twice. So far as we know, I have not had it. It hit them like a mild flu.

We have all had a schizophrenia spectrum diagnosis within the last two years (me schizoaffective, spouse full blown schizophrenia, child won’t be labeled until over 18 but already on same meds and receiving same treatment). 22 year old schizoaffective.


justforkicks28 t1_isvf5bn wrote

Do you have a family history of Schizophrenia spectrum disorders? It is very very odd to first develop symptoms as a male past early 20's (usually teens) and a female past mid 20's... worked community mental health for a decade and never met one person. I met thousands of people with Schizophrenia


Neat_Youth470 t1_isvmycp wrote

There is a second period of schizophrenia onset for women, at perimenopause just like at end of puberty (the drop in hormones and the possible protection against schizophrenia from estrogen) It’s not super rare, and it is also a viable possibility absent Covid. I may never know.

I mean exactly what I originally stated though; I’m just curious where this research will lead and what it might mean for families like my own.

No family history on my side of any psychotic or delusional disorders, but lots of cluster A (anxiety, ocd, etc) and dopamine disorders (adhd, Parkinson’s, narcolepsy).

There is so much that is subjective or overlaps about the various diagnoses it’s kind of hard to suss out what is what.


justforkicks28 t1_isvo9k9 wrote

The dopamine disorder family history is a very interesting possible explanation but still have no idea what COVID could possibly do to cause psychotic disorders. Really sorry you all are having to face this reality. Psychotic disorder are quite frankly fu**ing awful. Best wishes to you and your family. Appreciate you responding on such a personal matter.


asterlynx t1_isxc7ch wrote

Infections like covid can cause a chronic state of inflammation what leads to components of the primary immune system crossing the blood brain barrier and causing oxidative stress messing up with neurotransmitters and brain connectivity...


Strazdas1 t1_isx3unt wrote

Whats the usual age the symptoms start to develop?


justforkicks28 t1_isx4q61 wrote

Boys late teens to early twenties and girls mid/late twenties to early thirities (sometimes a little earlier but later than boys typically)


M-3X t1_isuiiz6 wrote

How do you explain then your condition and the fact you didn't have covid?

Simplest explanations are usually closest to the truth.

Correlations do not imply causality.


Neat_Youth470 t1_isujxn9 wrote

“So far as we know”, since you’re targeting that sentence, let’s use the entire statement, thank you.

I have not had a serology. I have had negative rapid home tests.

I am curious as to if I had a very mild form before or after their bouts that I did not test during that time for, or one of the home tests that I took was a false negative. There’s a large margin of error regarding incubation times and low viral load.,t%20have%20COVID-19%20symptoms.


youth-in-asia18 t1_isuod3j wrote

sounds like you’re genetically predisposed and so is your wife, which would make your kids predisposed. I don’t think epigenetics is necessary to explain; although i’m honestly not sure what you mean by epigenetics here. best of luck with your diagnoses


RainyDaysInSpace t1_isuv8x3 wrote

Vaccinations are not designed to prevent transmission of the disease. Vaccinations are designed to elicit an immune response to a particular disease so when we inevitably are exposed to the disease our body has certain antibodies designed specifically to fight that disease off


Puzzleheaded_Poem473 t1_isv17b6 wrote

not to be accusatory, I mean this more in a general sense, but how do you get covid so many times in your family without being negligent?

do you not wear masks? do you not take precautions to prevent getting it? Like, after the first time, but several times??


roostertree t1_isyr0lw wrote

Masks measurably reduce transmission. They aren't perfect prophylactics. And then there are the meatheads who won't wear masks in common indoor spaces, or do wear them, but lower them to sneeze b/c they want to keep their mask dry.


[deleted] t1_isti847 wrote



chrisdh79 OP t1_issimix wrote

From the article: A new study published in Psychiatry Research suggests that experiencing a serious case of COVID-19 is associated with increased risk of developing schizophrenia.

COVID-19 has had massive effects on society and many individuals’ health that will continue for years to come. In addition to serious physical health outcomes, it has been shown to be linked to declines in mental health that come from neuropsychological effects of the disease. COVID-19 can affect the nervous system, metabolism, and brain function. Despite our increasing knowledge of the negative effects of COVID-19, people have begun a return to normalcy and society has lifted mask mandates.

For their new study, Ancha Baranova and colleagues utilized data from two Genome-Wide Association Studies (GWAS). This included one for the SARS-CoV-2 infection and one for hospitalized COVID-19 cases. Datasets included 122,616 cases of SARS, 32,519 cases of COVID-19, and 53,386 cases of schizophrenia, in addition to controls for each group.

A genome-wide association study (GWAS) is a type of genetic research that looks for associations between genes and particular traits or conditions. Often, GWAS research is used to identify genes that may be involved in certain diseases.

The data allowed the researchers to examine the topic using the Mendelian randomization framework, a research method that uses genetic variation to study the relationship between exposures and outcomes. By comparing the effects of different variants of a gene, researchers can identify which exposures are associated with which outcomes. This approach has several advantages over traditional observational studies. First, it can help to control for confounding variables. Second, it can provide insight into causal relationships.


LordPubes t1_issnmna wrote

Is there a list anywhere of all the obscure crap covid causes?


pastelbutcherknife t1_istu6zg wrote

Weird. Anecdotal but I have heard of people in their 30s, 40s, 50s showing signs of schizophrenia for the first time when usually it manifests in someone’s teens or 20s. I was blaming conspiracy-theory culture and religious practices that over-value “hearing Gods voice” but maybe they have some brain damage from COVID19.


TheArcticFox444 t1_isum5hr wrote

>This is significant because it is well-known that environment is an important factor in both schizophrenia and COVID-19. 

When did environment become a factor in schizophrenia? I thought it was a brain chemistry thing.


HelenofReddit t1_isuo4tl wrote

It's both. There are loads of different factors that determine whether someone will develop schizophrenia. Many studies show that a genetic liability to the disease combined with being in a stressful environment (think neglect, severe trauma, drug abuse, etc.) can lead it to manifest. They call it a "gene by environment" interaction, or "epigenetic" effects. Here's an article from the NHS that breaks it down.

To be clear though, I don't think there's evidence that schizophrenia the disorder can develop if you don't have any genetic risk factors whatsoever (though there are so many likely working together that it's truly hard to know if you do or not). I also think it's possible to develop schizophrenia with the genes alone and without any obvious environmental factors. As someone pointed out below, there appears to be scientific consensus that non-genetic factors are necessary for schizophrenia to develop.


TheArcticFox444 t1_isuoprv wrote

A few decades ago, "schizophenia" was a sort of catch-all "diagnosis" when nothing else seemed to fit.


HelenofReddit t1_isvhum3 wrote

Yeah, and my comment oversimplifies it. Today it’s considered a spectrum of different disorders (and there’s likely even more nuance than the existing spectrum allows for).


TheArcticFox444 t1_isvmyfk wrote

>Today it’s considered a spectrum of different disorders (and there’s likely even more nuance than the existing spectrum allows for).

Not really a fan of psychology...just interested in behavior. Acknowledge that personality and emotions certainly play a role in behavior. Use the analogy of spice vs food. Spice provides flavor, for good or bad.


scarlet-rr t1_isvp805 wrote

So mental illness is just "personality and emotions?"


Pintash t1_isvvxdn wrote

You could maybe say this if you accept that: A) personality and emotions are standard human brain function and B) extreme and atypical examples of A) generally stem from genetic predisposition, hormone imbalance or underdevelopment of the certain cognitive functions due to environment (past or present).


TheArcticFox444 t1_iswluzp wrote

>So mental illness is just "personality and emotions?"

Didn't say that. "Behavior," taken as a whole--from simple to complex life--paints with a really broad brush. Emotion and personality are very individualized. They count, of course, and this would be the (jurisdiction) of psychology. (Doesn't this patch belong to psychology? Don't psychologists deal with personality and emotions?


NightlyWry t1_isv1itg wrote

My uncle and a cousin both developed schizophrenia when they hit puberty. My uncle killed himself, while my cousin tried to kill his sisters when he was 14 with a knife so has been away since...he's now 64. Their lives were very stressful. Lots of neglect and abuse by their fathers. My uncle went into the Navy and was severely hazed. After he came out of the service he wasn't the same. Lasted into his 30s. He used to see witches. My grandmother was the worst mother to him and my grandpa was a WWII vet who once told my mother while she was on her period that she could only use two pieces of toilet paper. The stress from their lives definitely pushed them into it. Also of note, they both have celiac disease which is massively inflammatory. My grand mother is in her 90s, still mean as hell, and they have her on psych meds for bipolar/schizophrenia (they're used for both). It took her until her 80s for anyone to do anything about it. It doesn't really help her behavior though.


[deleted] t1_isw1glp wrote



NightlyWry t1_isxfztx wrote

That’s what I’ve read too. Inflammation of the brain does some gnarly stuff.


asterlynx t1_isxd03d wrote

>I also think it's possible to develop schizophrenia with the genes alone and without any obvious environmental factors.

Not really, it's almost a concensus among experts that this is a multifactorial disorder


[deleted] t1_istp0ul wrote

That may explain the paranoid delusions spreading like wildfire in the anti-vax crowd.


Strazdas1 t1_isx417n wrote

Conspiuracy theorists having paranoid delusions has always been a thing. Have you forgotten the lizard people?


mikeh117 t1_isu1jeh wrote

Given that at least 10% of severe mental illness is now known to be an autoimmune disease, I wonder if severe covid is triggering a neurological autoimmune disease in genetically susceptible people.


Mindofthequill t1_isuzcr3 wrote

Hah suckers I already have it! Here before it becomes mainstream.


JACC_Opi t1_ist60ek wrote

Oh, cool! Just what I needed to know today.


KinjaMannTn t1_isvb45d wrote

If you use the word “may” you’re not dealing with science…just opinion and/or speculation


ghostfaceschiller t1_isvf91t wrote

Reddit post: “new study says if you were hospitalized with Covid-19, you had an 11% increase in ur chance of being diagnosed with schizophrenia (for example: from ~0.32% to ~0.35%)

Reddit comments: “yeah my whole family caught mild cases of Covid and now we have all been diagnosed with schizophrenia”


AnOddFad t1_isvp0sc wrote

As someone who recovered from schizophrenia, only to temporarily relapse when I got covid, this article is true to my experience.


scavenger5 t1_iswfexl wrote

Doesn't seem like very strong data.

First off, covid does not cause schizophrenia. From the study: " our results did not support a causal effect of SARS-CoV-2 infection on this psychiatric disease."

Second, they only associate hospitalization of covid with schizophrenia. It's not controlled though, so perhaps other confounders that cause covid hospitalization also cause schizophrenia (like poor self care, poor hygiene, smoking, etc). Its not far fetched to think that those who are more likely to be hospitalized are more likely to get mentally ill.

Lastly, the effect was an 11% increased risk of schizophrenia. So if .4% is the odds of getting schizophrenia, covid hospitalization increases the risk to .44%, or a .04% increase. And covid hospitalization is easily preventable with vaccines and self care.

In summary: covid doesn't cause schizophrenia. People who get hospitalized with covid are more likely to get schizophrenia. Good chance of confounders, like smoking or poor self care. Nothing to be concerned about.


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Doctor_Amazo t1_ist8ilj wrote

Which will go undiagnosed amoungst the anti-vaxx/FREEEEEEEEEDUMB crowd.


Superb_Nature_2457 t1_isu212u wrote

Well, sure. They also live in healthcare deserts. Rural areas in the US have a stunning lack of accessible mental healthcare options. It’s a serious problem.


seriousoftubes t1_istf5yv wrote

already mimicking its effects cool light show


rohowsky t1_istvv60 wrote

They funded so many Covid studies that they found out every possible relation with other diseases. It would probably be the same with other viruses if they had the same attention.


raul2144 t1_isuo3j5 wrote

Good . I already have it .


CodeMonkeyPhoto t1_isv0fh7 wrote

So I’ll have some friends again? Oh no they won’t like me either. Okay just thought I would ask.


DiligentMission6851 t1_isv4v2z wrote

Great, new fear unlocked.

My mom has had this since before I was born.

As if I haven't spent enough time worrying about this exact thing before coronavirus came along.


4quarkU t1_isv5e1e wrote

That's just delusional thinking.


duxpdx t1_isv919t wrote

What it looks like you are trying to say is the antivaxers are going to be more stupid and crazy than they already are.


lunchisgod t1_isveque wrote

Time to get my 25th booster!


XxDankSaucexX t1_isvf7ci wrote

Is it the covid or is it the stress causing the people that are genetically predisposed to it to get it?


healthychad t1_isvq8fd wrote

We need real cures. We need to gene edit and antiviral pill these viruses out of existence.


prolific_ideas t1_isw2f36 wrote

I wonder how much of the blame is going to the virus that is actually vaccination side effects, any research on the unvaccinated as a control group?


ariya6 t1_isw7amc wrote

Don't children born during flu epidemic also have a greater chance of schizophrenia? I'd guess covid does the same, but we'll know for certain in 15 years or so.


McStud717 t1_isw8wfa wrote

There's already plenty of studies correlating schizophrenia & higher stress levels, so no surprise there.


IG90 t1_istmcy1 wrote

I feel like we’re all living that moment of the walking dead where Rick was in a coma.


turkey_duck t1_isu732a wrote

That’s not what the voices tell me.


PorcelainFlaw t1_isuadhp wrote

I transported a 34 yo male, happily married, father of 3 young children, no past medical (or psych) history with the exception of Covid 1 month prior. Pts family put out a missing person report and PD found him 1 state over. Car was wrecked and abandoned in the woods, he was butt naked 1 mile away and had burned an old church down to the ground because “god told him to”.

Now, I finally see why… they were calling it Covid induced psychosis.


Arizona_Pete t1_isugthp wrote

That would do a lot to explain what's happening in politics right now...


DontDoomScroll t1_isudpkr wrote

Wonder about schizophrenia associations with COVID conspiracy types, who are presumably more likely to catch the virus they don't take precautions to mitigate.