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Jhill520 t1_iuo2u9t wrote

So would this indicate that saving other humans is human nature, not societal evolution?

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thatsnotmybutter t1_iuo6mm2 wrote

I would argue the opposite. It might not be in the interest of the individual but it most certainly is in the interest of the species.

I would say societal nature encourages the instinctive natural behavior.

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Jhill520 t1_iuoj27y wrote

I guess it’s a chicken or the egg conversation once you determine that survival of the species is even a priority for the individual.

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goneinsane6 t1_iur3kpt wrote

It is likely such behavior was already present even before society. Humans naturally help, we even help other animals when it is not to our benefit. Other smart animals also help each other and sometimes even help other animals.

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nexusgmail t1_iuo9k2z wrote

You wouldn't have to suppress a fear system in order to help others if your fear system recognizes the value to one's own self in helping your (perceived) tribe, or the potential danger in either tribe members being harmed, or in losing the tribe's trust in you, or your perceived value to them. It wasn't very long ago that being ousted from your group meant certain death.

I think we underestimate how hundreds of thousands of years of surviving against superior predators and harsh environments through cooperative means has contributed to our brain's survival mechanism's complexity.

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stark-atkm t1_iuo72ma wrote

My thinking is it's fear, but on behalf of another person. Same emotion/ fight or flight part of the brain.

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TheArcticFox444 t1_iup0o7t wrote

Wasn't able to read the article due to paywall...but,

>Researchers show that the same system in the brain that enables us to avoid danger is also activated during selfless, helping behaviour

These are basically two very different statements

>These results contradict conventional wisdom that we need to suppress our own fear system in order to help others who are in danger”

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kittenTakeover t1_iuo8lrj wrote

Fear and avoidance are not the same thing.

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Fingerinthedykes t1_iupj79y wrote

So does this mean that people with hyper or large amygdalas are more empathetic?

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tornpentacle t1_iuplouf wrote

That's an interesting question, though I don't know if we quite have an answer to it.

For instance, here is one paper describing a neuroimaging study on those with alexithymia, measuring the size of the left amygdala: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26275382/

Meditation is linked to increased empathy (causative studies have been done) and is also correlated with reduction of the right amygdala.

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Rice-Weird t1_iupkaok wrote

Joseph LeDoux, researcher who popularized "fear" of amygdala evolved to see amygdala activity as "threat detection," then finally a "salient indicator" Amygdala may moderate primal emotional-motor activity, whether to protect self or other. Cool research!

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lemmycaution415 t1_iuoricu wrote

This makes sense given that people are actually pretty altruistic and social.

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farganbastige t1_iuoui19 wrote

So selfless helping actions get washed through the danger avoidance cycle maybe to be sure the altruistic motive doesn't have an unforeseen consequence?

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Guciguciguciguci t1_iup2wwz wrote

So, narcissists have no system to avoid dangers?

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tornpentacle t1_iupktsj wrote

That is a flawed premise. It's a two way street—the lanes going in one direction are closed, but the other direction is open. Narcissists experience fear, but they are unwilling to understand others' emotions. (That does not mean they are incapable, though...but according to certain ideas presented by researchers, they tend to only experience what is dubbed "cognitive empathy" rather than its emotional counterpart.)

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1337sk337er t1_iuri36n wrote

Fear and stress turn into adrenaline which helps you ignore consequences.

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EffinPyro t1_iurke48 wrote

What about the thought of 'its not going to be me' - what role does naivety play in evolution?

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