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mlqdscrvn t1_iykdkac wrote

"In conclusion, the precise origin of the gold of Troy could not be determined..."

Hmmm....

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Darth_Kahuna OP t1_iyke3hh wrote

That's the point, the gold all had the same origin, we simply do not know where that is.

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clericalclass t1_iykgrrl wrote

Clearly Atlantis.

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Lurker_IV t1_iynqmto wrote

You say that jokingly, perhaps, but there is probably some truth to it.

I think the gold likely came from across the Atlantic ocean from the Americas. I think ancient civilizations had nearly global trade networks and traded gold and other metals all the way from the Americas to Egypt.

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Robert_Cannelin t1_iyodafy wrote

There is literally no reason to think this. Their ships could do no more than skirt the shorelines.

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JRizzie86 t1_iyoncoy wrote

You have zero evidence of this.

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Robert_Cannelin t1_iyr03i0 wrote

It doesn't work that way. You have to provide evidence they could.

For instance, provide evidence of ocean-going vessels, trans-oceanic trade, genomic mixing, etc. Hint: don't bother, there is none.

And supposing that Troy's gold came from the Americas isn't evidence.

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clericalclass t1_iynt56u wrote

It was a joke, but I honestly couldn't refute that idea nor would I have a reason to think it too crazy. I find that the more I learn about history the less shocking the seemingly wild connections are.

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salton t1_iylpf3e wrote

Ancient people had vast trade networks.

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DirtyReseller t1_iykje3n wrote

How does not knowing the origin = having the same origin?

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Darth_Kahuna OP t1_iykkty9 wrote

If you read the study linked in the article it says the chemical composition of the impurities in the gold are as such that the probabilities of the gold being mined and smelted anywhere else than the same location is extremely unlikely. Now, where the OG mines are and place of smelting are is a mystery?

It's like having three ppl take a DNA test and they find out they are siblings yet they do not know who their parents are.

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AnybodyZ t1_iykl0bk wrote

I assume the make up of the gold is identical but we do not know the original source

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Devil-sAdvocate t1_iykqype wrote

> If we observe the share of trace elements in the gold from Troy, Poliochni and Ur, Bronze Age gold from Georgia correlates the closest with the stated find sites. But we still lack data and studies from other regions...

The Sakdrissi gold mine in Georgia was discovered in 2004 by German archaeologists from Ruhr-University Bochum and is dated to the third millennium BCE.

The region south of the Great Caucasus (present day Georgia) is known from the Greek myth of the “Golden Fleece”. Iason, a Mycenaean hero of royal origin, sailed with the Argonauts from Greece to the Colchis to demand the “Golden Fleece” from king Aietes. Iason successfully looted the fleece with the help of the king’s daughter, Medea. The “Golden Fleece” stands as a symbol for the recovery of gold from placers using the skin of an ox or a sheep. The myth of the “Golden Fleece” is proof of the economic wealth of this region. The richness in gold is verified extraordinarily by the excavations of 5th to 3rd century BC royal graves of the acropolis at Vani, the capital of the kingdom of Colchis.

> But we still lack data and studies from other regions...

A few contenders:

The oldest processed gold in the world was found in Bulgaria, 4,560-4,450 BC on the Bulgarian Black Sea coast.

Nubian gold mines may have first existed from 5000 BC.

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Aethenae t1_iylus0t wrote

In the same way you can see that identical twins came from the same place, even though you don’t know their mom.

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bigsquirrel t1_iylk0yd wrote

It’s crazy to think that somewhere in antiquity there was a riverbed so full of gold it ended up in so many far flung places.

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Usermena t1_iynpdwv wrote

Yes, my guess is the Pactolus river ( Sart Cayi) from which the Iron Age kingdom of Lydia would later create the worlds first government backed gold coin.

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tom-8-to t1_iyl7kce wrote

Gold should be traceable to a particular region due to impurities present unless the source truly was mined out eons ago.

Mongolia would be a good place to start for origin since those trade routes gave birth to the idea of flying dragons from triceratop skulls found in gold bearing areas (hence dragon=gold) and their fossil nests with big eggs helping define the flying wings for that beast.

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mill_about_smartly t1_iylm4v5 wrote

I know it says they don't know exactly what that point of origin is, but isn't Egypt most likely? They put gold on everything like it was Frank's red hot.

I know Varna has the oldest gold, but Ancient Egypt has the oldest records of gold, right?

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Creasy_Bear t1_iymq8sq wrote

That would be my guess too. Egypt was handing out gold like diplomatic party favors back then.

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Usermena t1_iynpli6 wrote

I think the Sart Cayi in modern day Turkey is a better bet.

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WonderWheeler t1_iyloaz2 wrote

The legend of the "golden" fleece implies that fleece was used to attract gold dust from streams in the regions. Something to do with lanolin or static electricity perhaps.

I am no expert on art, just an architect with an interest in archeology, but doubt the finds of Heinrich Schliemann gold, as it happened at too convenient of a time for him to make news, looks to me a bit modern, and not all that finely worked.

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RekindlingChemist t1_iyly0ux wrote

Not lanolin or static electricity. It's a convenient natural alternative to modern gold mining carpets. And legends about "golden fleece" imply that there are so much golden sand in streams in that land, that fleece after sluicing looks golden

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kifn2 t1_iyn5jpb wrote

I don't know where you heard that but it doesn't sound right. There's nothing that would imply that from the mythology. The ram named Chrysomallos, was the offspring of Poseidon raping a woman whom he had turned into a sheep. The ram was born golden and later sacrificed. This is according to Ovid and maybe there are other stories, but I don't know any that would imply the origin is from the use of fleece to mine gold.

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Deathbyhours t1_iymzc1i wrote

“… washed out of a river in the form of gold dust.” Does anyone else immediately think of the Golden Fleece of Colchis?

Everyone? Oh.

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nosnowtho t1_iyleqrt wrote

Same origin? Same exploding supernova?

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idontdigdinosaurs t1_iym0vn7 wrote

I was gonna suggest Mapungubwe as the origins, but these sites predate it.

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[deleted] t1_iykpszv wrote

[deleted]

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Darth_Kahuna OP t1_iykqi0a wrote

You'd be surprised. From the British Isle's, to modern day Georgia, central Asia, Spain, Greece, the greater Balkans, and more. There was a relative large amount of gold being mined from many places in the Bronze Age.

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tom-8-to t1_iykxv2a wrote

The Romans were specially destructive in mining gold in Spain their hydraulic rams brought down entire slopes of mountains and the devastation can be seen to this day.

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Initial_District_161 t1_iykzyvx wrote

>How is that surprising?

Because it implies trade networks across millennia.

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[deleted] t1_iyl04lh wrote

[deleted]

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Initial_District_161 t1_iyl0fee wrote

No, we didn't.

We knew they existed over thousands of MILES but for those same routes to have existed for thousands of YEARS is different.

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