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NicNoletree t1_j1yqtd0 wrote

> a well-coordinated defense.

Clearly these researchers have never seen me dance


Salamanderhead t1_j1zh91m wrote

They probably did but you didn't see them because they assumed you could mount a well-coordinated defense and they ran away. That Elaine dance will scare any predator away.


FuzzyCrocks t1_j21yld7 wrote

Neither have they or they are doing different dances.

Usually dancing is sexual suggestive and source empirical evidence.


N8CCRG t1_j1zav5t wrote

A bit of a misleading headline. The authors aren't suggesting we evolved music and dance to deter potential predators, but that music and dance evolved from other similar cognitive abilities that we evolved to deter potential predators.

>A wide variety of species, including carnivores and apes and other primates, have therefore evolved visual and auditory signals that deter predators by credibly signaling detection and/or the ability to effectively defend themselves. In some cooperative species, these predator deterrent signals involve highly synchronized visual and auditory displays among group members. Hagen and Bryant (Human Nature, 14(1), 21-51, 2003) proposed that synchronized visual and auditory displays credibly signal coalition quality. Here, this hypothesis is extended to include credible signals to predators that they have been detected and would be met with a highly coordinated defensive response, thereby deterring an attack. Within-group signaling functions are also proposed. The evolved cognitive abilities underlying these behaviors were foundations for the evolution of fully human music and dance.

If I interpret it correctly, if a predator met a group of early hominins, those early hominins' behavioral response would include synchronized movements and/or sounds, indicating a likely coordinated defense, thus dissuade the predator.

Also noteworthy, the abstract only talks about "extending the hypothesis" and not about actually having any evidence yet to support the hypothesis. If anyone wants to peak peek at the full text and let us know further details, I'd be curious.


-downtone_ t1_j1zm50g wrote

Interesting. I feel as if it might be more likely that multiple animals moving extensively, causing shifting attention, may cause a cognitive overload leading to a fear or aggression response. The common response is likely fear. I don't know that most animals would have to cognitive ability to identify coalition quality. Just my thought process.


N8CCRG t1_j1ztwfu wrote

I don't think the authors would claim that kind of cognitive ability either. The reason such a behavior would trigger a fear response is because that fear has been selected for because a coordinated defense is a greater danger to the predator. There is nothing inherent to being afraid of coordinated movement otherwise.


-downtone_ t1_j1zyaso wrote

I see I misunderstood that statement then. Thanks for clarification.


stephengee t1_j20kr8k wrote

Thank you for that synopsis. It can be difficult for your average joe to get out of the mindset that evolution has a goal or intelligence. Traits that are advantageous don’t need to be reasonable or logical to be selected.


MocoMojo t1_j1yp4cy wrote

Odd…I’ve found that my dancing keeps away potential mates.


baldwineffect t1_j1yodp2 wrote

Does this include defense against other humans who may plan to attack?


Looter629 t1_j2124j2 wrote

The Zulu's were pretty intimidating when they almost routed the Brits.


belowsubzero t1_j20c86l wrote

So it has been scientifically proven that "getting served" is actually a self-defense mechanism? This gives that movie, plus the original West Side Story an entirely new meaning!


Pixeleyes t1_j203vp9 wrote

I'm picturing chimpanzees doing West Side Story now. So, thanks for that.


Wordwright t1_j20hwtf wrote

So the Māori haka is actually a throwback?


xnxkq t1_j21dg1h wrote

It’s sex. It’s always been sex.


zebtacular t1_j1z8pkq wrote

Or c) that we got wicked moves that cant be matched.


bsanchey t1_j201k85 wrote

The sprinkler move is a well coordinated karate chop. Predators be warned. I’m very good at it.


MistahOnzima t1_j20j5j0 wrote

They wanted to show predators that they were 2 Legit 2 Quit.


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pLeThOrAx t1_j1zoqra wrote

Humans are diurnal though and early predation and indeed current predators are often nocturnal ones. Wouldn't such a display very clearly mark when you are "most defended" as well as least defended? This seems bogus to me. Humans have had flutes for entertainment, drums of war is nothing new, death whistles, whistling arrows. I think early homids are smarter than "researchers" give them credit for


andre3kthegiant t1_j1zxnzv wrote

In modern-day Africa, the truck drivers use noise to help keep the animals away, when their truck breaks down or gets a flat. It evolved into a genre of music that is played when the truckers get together.


uniquelyavailable t1_j20evqn wrote

I would have expected "mating dance" to prevail here


sambolino44 t1_j211mpg wrote

Am I the only one who sees this and remembers the SNL sketch where Norm Macdonald’s gang is threatened by a rival gang and Norm’s gang members start doing dance moves from West Side Story? “This is bad!”


23skiddoobie t1_j2142p6 wrote

Or: It is fun to do when together and on shrooms.


endiminion t1_j21w371 wrote

He's breakdance fighting!


rayinreverse t1_j225xkg wrote

Lion took one look into the circle pit and nope’d right on out.


Songmuddywater t1_j22agmn wrote

Only someone who doesn't dance or go outside would come up with such a theory.


i_lurvz_poached_eggs t1_j22llcv wrote

So...what I'm hearing is: if I see a bear with some friends we we need to sing really loud and do the macaraina?


thewholeradish t1_j22ma2q wrote

I used to laugh when they dance a pimp away in the Love is a Battlefield music video, but now don’t I feel silly


Plesure_most_carnal t1_j238ck0 wrote

Behold oh Grizzly bear oh amex of north America the ultimate defense, the macarena!


apex_editor t1_j23ey9a wrote

Lion: Wait. I think there’s something wrong with that one.


Spiritmolecule30 t1_j1z3c70 wrote

Winnie the pooh and all its cubs are gonna be catching these feet!


Corellians t1_j1zig86 wrote

OH ! like when Peter Quill saved Xandar with a dance off verses Ronan


TommyTuttle t1_j1zuba1 wrote

We’re not telling them that they have been detected. We’re telling them that we’re the biggest badasses around and we’ve got no reason to hide from the likes of them.

We’ve got a fire pit over by that drum circle and the drums are made of animal skins. We hunt in packs, and on that fire you’ll notice we’re roasting a creature that’s bigger than you are. We didn’t eat it where we killed it. We carried it for miles. Come and get it if you can. We’re right here.

Imagine a lion with the balls to attack that camp. Not gonna happen. They’re not stupid.


space_monster t1_j206ntb wrote

That's a stretch. Sounds like a stoned thought that someone decided might make a good thesis.

I'm more inclined to believe it's related to our propensity for pattern recognition.


Rtfy3 t1_j1z2xsz wrote

Seems unlikely. It’s because it’s fun


Betadzen t1_j1za63c wrote

Our games imitate mostly hunt or battlements. Some games imitate social interaction and other daily stuff. And it is fun. So why not?


CrisiwSandwich t1_j1zlvq2 wrote

If you think about it, a lot of birds "dance", make noise, and usually puff up and look big while courting. While there is definitely a difference in mating behavior and aggressive behavior it has it has a good deal of overlap. A lot of birds will fan out their feathers to look big in defense as well, they often get loud and may flap around. It's easy for people to look at dance in humans as unique. But really we have a similar thing going on to birds. We have sexy dance like salsa. But we also have intimidating dance like what the Haka like New Zealand rugby team does. Or how foot soldiers would bash sheilds in unison going into battle. We loved battle drums. It makes sense that music and dance could be connected to intimidation because healthy humans are likely the best more coordinated dancers while less able (sick,old, disabled, very young) are less coordinated people and less able to have large ranges of controled movment. Dance says "I'm healthy and socially confident enough to move around like this infront of others"