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psydkay t1_izog0wm wrote

This is definitely the case. You can present whatever scientific evidence to anti-vaxxers and they ignore it, just like flat earthers.

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Justtryme90 t1_izpmq5f wrote

It's easy to get people afraid with wild conjecture, but it's really hard to then calm them back down with facts and logic. From what I can see, many topics today are all driven by a fear position and a rational position, where the fears have led to some sort of twisted belief system.

I am uncertain how to combat this, and it's quite frustrating. I have many former logical thinking family members that seem to have jumped off the deep end.

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[deleted] t1_izpqcfj wrote

[removed]

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Petaurus_australis t1_izr0gt5 wrote

Same here, although I begin to question their rationality / criticality / logic. One in particular is an engineer who's worked on and even managed some of the biggest projects in my country, although I've come to realize most of that is connections and charisma. It's interesting too because a lot of his "brightness" is sounding smart, but rather it's just a colorful intuition heuristic that he bases most of his thinking on, with major deficits in control of his own life and thoughts.

But yes, it's an rather strange combo to tackle. First you have the fear, the anxiety, the paranoia, a vulnerability of sorts to these ideologies, which is followed by some form of ego defense which tries to reinforce the topic from a perceived reasonable system. I think you can pinpoint the emotional basis too because they psychologically project; "Oh you are just scared of COVID, sheep" (the parallel is they are scared of the vaccine / something to do with the vaccine). The problem however is that you can't erode that foundation and expect everything else to collapse, they sort of shift their goalpost so that the further justification, the reinforcement of their view becomes the foundation of their ideology.

And then you have another complex set of events, the new harder to untangle goalpost is reinforced by fear, anxiety, paranoia as they begin to delve down the rabbit hole usually corroborated by some form of illiteracy, not knowing how to interpret studies or analytically filter information, but the real problem is the further paranoia / fear results in a rejection of the system which precedes the information the perceived opposition is creating, IE, science in general or the government. Therefore it's near impossible to install the literacy needed to begin tackling the goalpost view because they systematically reject the source or association of the literacy.

I'm going to actually maybe say something a little provocative, but I think the BASIS of this thinking is pathological. I think the BASIS is an already problematic belief system, the tinted glasses were already there. For a lot of men I know who hold these views, I think they characteristically fit the dismissive-avoidant attachment style category likely stemming back to cold and rigid parents, which has lead to a long life of striving to be very independent, a struggle to intimately relate to others well and a deep insecurity. I think in part this suspicion of authority leans massively into their pathological presuppositions, but I also think it gives them some form of unified community which they likely have a longing for.

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SocialismIsStupid t1_izrn3fx wrote

I’d like to add it seems a large contingent are baby boomers who are in denial of their own mortality. They were the first true generation to be coddled with modern medicine. They grew up with modern antibiotics, anesthesia, and etc. Death to every generation before them was something normal. Boomers though were the first ones to grow up with out their peers dying from preventable illnesses. Only accidents and really rare occurrences. Now, they are over 60 and their friends are dying of natural causes and they see their time is running short. So they looking for something to blame. Something they can control. “It wasn’t their age or the years of partying and being overweight. It was the vaccine that killed Bob. I just gotta avoid the vaccine and I’ll be ok…Ya just gotta avoid the old vaccine and I won’t die that’s all I gotta do.” And they keep repeating that to themselves. The scary thing is every generation I think is going to have a large section like that going forward.

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Chrissy9001 t1_izrvx72 wrote

This is not true. Vaccine uptake was lower in the younger age groups, as was mask compliance.

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SocialismIsStupid t1_izrwe7f wrote

Uhh yes, it is. You're conflating people in their 20s and 30s not getting the vaccination because they really aren't at risk vs people who are at risk and push conspiracy theories.

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/boomers-misinformation-facebook-study-1005148/

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Chrissy9001 t1_izrwtf6 wrote

Ok, I see what you mean now. I took what you said to mean that they were less likely to be vaccinated due to them believing antivaxx misinformation.

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Anubisrapture t1_izt16tz wrote

Am older Gen X - I agree w YOU, i am vaxed and stopped masking for a little while but NOW am back masking. The anti vaxers in our family are those who live outside the city and only one who died was somebody over 65 living in rural texas - it is purely lack of education , plus the falling down into a evangelical mindset. The one time my partner got covid was when he was close to his unmasked and UNVAXED cousin at a funeral - am on the West Coast and so are my children SO we do not see this stuff until we travel back down South.

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SnooPuppers1978 t1_izwfbog wrote

Are young, healthy people who did not take the vaccine anti-vaxxers or not?

And what should be done about convincing them?

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TheClayroo t1_izooml8 wrote

The Venn diagram between those two groups is a perfect circle.

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Daerrol t1_izr98jr wrote

Not at all, flat earthers are significantly more rare. Flat earth is based on personal observation over science mixed with general conspiratorial thinking and anti-gov' skepticism.

Anti-vaxx is much more a social movement, and is/was aligned heavily with US politic. The vax became a short hand for thoughts about lockdowns and other unrelated things. Like if you got the vax then you agreed Covid was a problem and therefore agree lockdowns should happen (illogical as this is, we get shots for tons of other diseases - the flu most notably- that we do not engage in special social measures for)

Then there's the whole hippy/naturalistic, and medicine skeptic crowds who all have their own motivations

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SEND-ME-FEET-P1CS t1_izpyubw wrote

Its because science to them is satanic magic that doesnt actually exist, god controls the stars and the moon to go around and provide us with what we need, and space was just fabricated to drive us further from god.

Source: my dad is a religiois conspiracy theorist

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deep6it2 t1_izqul2u wrote

Convince all those in the health/scientific community that don't agree the "evidence" IS scientific.

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[deleted] t1_izq0umv wrote

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TheDownvotesFarmer t1_izopf1v wrote

Is it not well known by now that flath-earth was just a psyop?

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TommyCollins t1_izp2kbm wrote

I thought it was a joke that got out of hand. Tangentially, r/birdsarentreal will have the same trajectory I am calling it here

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Grouch_OMarx t1_izpc4ms wrote

To what end?

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DivideEtImpala t1_izr8y2n wrote

"What, you think the virus came from a lab? I bet you think the earth is flat, too!"

Mostly for that reason. It makes it easier to dismiss any questioning of official narratives by asserting that the questioner also believes patently obvious nonsense.

You can see an example of this in the opening comment of this thread.

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koebelin t1_izpyvpe wrote

Some ideas catch on all too easily. If they didn’t invent it, it would have happened anyway.

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