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BoreDominated t1_j0k9vns wrote

Well gee, ya think?

Only black parents?


beastlike t1_j0kgh1e wrote

Yes. I've often been telling my white friends and family to stop supporting their children. This headline may finally convince them.


wickedblight t1_j0l8lub wrote

Everyone knows white people don't benefit from... Checks notes.... healthy and normal support systems in their life


apathetic_panda t1_j0kjkxh wrote

The headline is stupid, why you would quote the abstract when the article title is more informative?

#Black fathers’ contributions to maternal mental health

Stupid bot post


BoreDominated t1_j0kk8f2 wrote

Why black fathers and not just fathers?


MittenstheGlove t1_j0miqoc wrote

I mean black fathers are in large absent. I assumed this was to talking in order to push more familial orientation for black parents.


Own-Crew-3394 t1_j0op136 wrote

Dude, black fathers spend as much, if not more time with their kids as white fathers. They are less likely to be married and/or cohabiting with the others, which is a LOT more about economic pressures for Black men and less about not living or supporting their children.


MittenstheGlove t1_j0q0rqq wrote

According to this you may be right. The definition of fatherlessness is extremely poorly defined in this context.

There needs to be a section for “Amount of time spent with father” for this study. The last section simply shows living with one parent. I’d argue that the time is separated evenly based on what this says.

I personally don’t know my father well and know others that don’t so I have some biases.


Own-Crew-3394 t1_j0rmfim wrote

Hey Mittens! I like you!!! Thanks for reading and listening and doing your own research. I’m a longtime foster mom. I’m culturally a “white American” and biologically mixed anglo-indian.

I also believed in the myth of the absent Black father until I started fostering teenage boys and finding out. (This is like Reddit’s f* around and find out, but with a LOT more driving kids to school, sports and therapy!)

One thing I found out about is single Black dads who foster, which I was very surprised by, until I found out about single Black dads in general. Guess what, they show up for their kids! They just aren’t married to or living with mom.

That’s more and more of a trend for white dads too. You can scratch your head over it, but it seems to boil down to economics someway, somehow. If both parents need to work full time or more to afford kids, the glue that sticks marriages together can get thin, AND the next generation says hmmmm.. why would I want that? So they have kids young and live apart.

Doesn’t mean Dads stop loving their kids. Now that I’m 20 years in the trenches, and my kids are grown Black men, and my grandkids include growing young Black men, I see it as part of the whole story that dehumanizes Black men. Over violent, over sexed, abandon their children… it’s a bunch of BS and it makes me mad. So what do ya do? Post on Reddit of course ;)


BoreDominated t1_j0mrpt0 wrote

But there are also white fathers who are absent, to which the findings would be equally applicable, so why focus on black fathers?


Paranoidexboyfriend t1_j0msa6v wrote

Because the percentage of absent black fathers blows the number of absent white fathers out of the water. 58% of black children are without their father compared to 20% of white children.


BoreDominated t1_j0msp7v wrote

I know the numbers are higher, but that doesn't imply measures taken to lower the number of absent fathers would only work on black people, does it?


Smooth_Imagination t1_j0nvhum wrote

I get what you are saying, but they decided to focus on an area, maybe a geographical one with particular relevance to the question. They might have picked a particular racial group because it is understudied as a demographic. We could generalise these findings but since they did their study in a particular group its accurate to highlight the group and not generalise. We would hope the authors follow up in other groups, even though its bleedingly obvious its generalisable, in science you should not state beyond the scope of what your experiment examines.


sharksandwich81 t1_j0nhiya wrote

This study was specifically on black families in a metropolitan area with high racial disparity. They’re reporting the conclusion of THEIR study. Nobody (outside your imagination) is asserting that this is only true of black families and nobody else.


BoreDominated t1_j0nivrj wrote

Then why not simply do the study on families in general, why racialize it?


Smooth_Imagination t1_j0nvymr wrote

Maybe limited funding? If there were variables between those groups to find concrete patterns within each group you would need a larger pool to study. You could say add white, but why just to Black and White and not Asian, Native Americans? As the relationship might not hold true in each group (we can be sure it would, but you cant presume that, scientifically) then you need a large enough pool in each category to get significant results, so that's a much larger study.

The funding probably also stipulated to look at populations deemed to have particular under-researched issues or needs.


apathetic_panda t1_j0kkpup wrote

1)Because fathers generally aren't assumed to be tardy or absent in demonstrations of care or provision of food and shelter by all manner of media

2)Black fathers have been specifically impeded by the State from doing so in the United States for centuries

  1. The American Medical Association is trash

BoreDominated t1_j0km2kn wrote

>Black fathers have been specifically impeded by the State from doing so in the United States for centuries

Impeded from doing what, being fathers?


nothanks86 t1_j0kmfit wrote

Hard to parent from prison.


BoreDominated t1_j0ms74n wrote

What does that have to do with the state impeding them? Are you suggesting the state shouldn't lock them up for choosing to commit crimes?


bmorejaded t1_j0kxy93 wrote

Mass encarceration was a real problem. Until relatively recently men had to abandon their families to get government support. This was actually enforced with black families. Even now women lose childcare when dad lives at home even if he's looking for a job. Recent studies have shown that black men are more likely than fathers from other demographics to engage actively in parenting. I believe this has something to do with how hard it is for black men to find jobs.


S_SubZero t1_j0m8afs wrote

What “government support” do they need?

This all sorta rolls back to the whole, very frowned-upon common sense of “I’m not financially or otherwise prepared to have a family so maybe I should just keep it in my pants and stick to jacking off to porn.” It sounds silly to say, but not actively creating children to care for substantially reduces the number of children one has to care for.


bmorejaded t1_j0oqu4b wrote

Isn't having children likely to reduce the standard of living for anyone. I'm not sure how this is relevant. Should Black people not have children because things like employment discrimination make it more difficult? The US is a harsh environment for Black and Native American people especially. Should they not have children because of that? What about people in harsh environments all over the world where resources are scarce? You seem to be implying that oppressed people should die out by not reproducing or something. Maybe finish the job the system is imposing.

Btw people need support for all kinds of reasons. In some cases, it may be because racist employers make it difficult to find work or a bread winner gets incarcerated or somebody gets cancer or some other disease or somebody dies. All of which affect Black and Native people at higher rates.


S_SubZero t1_j0os2fw wrote

A couple who do not believe they are prepared to have a child, should not have a child.


bmorejaded t1_j0q8hyl wrote

What do you mean by not prepared and what does that have to do with the prison industrial complex and the other things I talked about? You can be completely capable and have the government ratfuck you. There is research that says that black men are treated poorly when they try to be involved in their kids' education. All of these things are external forces that make it more difficult for black men to parent. What don't you understand?


S_SubZero t1_j0q9ia7 wrote

How prepared a couple believes they are depends on them. Couples can analyze their finances and whatever other factors apply to them, and make the decision when they feel they are ready to do so. The topic is about black parents but any potential parents can do these things.


apathetic_panda t1_j0l2cpb wrote

Do you teach in our schools or more specifically lecture for the PTA?

BECAUSE somebody should pay you to


bmorejaded t1_j0l2pk6 wrote

I teach at the college level. I taught at black schools in impoverished areas and I'm from Baltimore. I've seen this stuff happen in real time.


apathetic_panda t1_j0l31b2 wrote

You're an actual hero.

Any neat tricks kids these days are up to that'll rock the block?


apathetic_panda t1_j0kmm2o wrote


Or did you think housing + hiring discrimination & mass incarceration comes with a free turkey?


BoreDominated t1_j0msclq wrote

When you say "mass incarceration", are they being incarcerated for shits and giggles, or because they've chosen to do something to cause them to be incarcerated?


apathetic_panda t1_j0msr5o wrote

Choices. Oh aren't you clever?


BoreDominated t1_j0mszvc wrote

Okay, so they're not really being impeded by the state there, since the state is incarcerating them because they're committing crimes. It's the decision to commit the crime that impeded them.


apathetic_panda t1_j0mtcpv wrote

Nice assumptions. Totally realistic basis. Got any to close this absolutist argument with?


BoreDominated t1_j0mtmb3 wrote

Unless you're suggesting black people are being falsely imprisoned en masse, I think it's a justified assumption.


skater15153 t1_j0khic9 wrote

That was my thought. This is only for black parents?


sharksandwich81 t1_j0nhlym wrote

This study was specifically on black families in a metropolitan area with high racial disparity. They’re reporting the conclusion of THEIR study. Nobody (outside your imagination) is asserting that this is only true of black families and nobody else.


BoreDominated t1_j0nir7p wrote

Why only do the study on black families, then?


sharksandwich81 t1_j0nkxzf wrote

One aspect of parental support they studied was to “Challenge racism and disrupt intergenerational trauma”.

Do you not think this is a valid subject for study?


BoreDominated t1_j0nz52c wrote

That one aspect, sure. What about the rest?


sharksandwich81 t1_j0oa45s wrote

What about them? Why don’t you stop with the insinuations and tell us what you’re getting at? I honestly don’t even know what that question is supposed to mean.


BoreDominated t1_j0oa8gw wrote

Do they only apply to black people?


sharksandwich81 t1_j0ob9ef wrote

Nobody is saying or implying that.


BoreDominated t1_j0ostbb wrote

You mentioned one aspect and implied that this aspect would be specific to black people, so I asked if the others would be too. If not, and the other aspects would apply to anyone, why not do a racism study specifically for black people and do an overall study for the other aspects?


sharksandwich81 t1_j0p5cdb wrote

Maybe you can email the authors and ask why they did one study instead of the two totally separate studies you think they should’ve done.


MrMojorisin521 t1_j0l76ys wrote

Cigarette smoking increases risk of lung cancer for one-armed fishermen named Dave or David.


hiro111 t1_j0l9zym wrote

The fact that this needed to be published is indicative of the ridiculous lack of respect that many people afford fathers. It turns out fathers do in fact have a role to play in a family beyond just breeding and money? Seriously?


MittenstheGlove t1_j0miwmz wrote

I think the issue is that a lot (black) fathers just don’t very much outside of those things. Money is a huge contributor to lessened stress.


Avalanche2 t1_j0m23zf wrote

How the heck did the single motherhood rate of the black community get so out of control? The nuclear family needs to be brought back and valued.


BallsMahoganey t1_j0o07wr wrote

Because unfortunately a large chunk of our society doesn't want to admit it's a very real and damaging problem.


Elpfan t1_j0nkol7 wrote

Suggest you do some research outside of Reddit. Answers you get here will tend to be overly simplistic and potentially self serving.


Katiecnut t1_j0mity9 wrote

It’s called the prison industrial complex


Evorgleb t1_j0mit0l wrote

A criminal justice system that disproportionately imprisons black men at a higher rate and for longer sentences than any other group?


TylerDurden626 t1_j0op3il wrote

That word “disproportionate” has no meaning if you don’t qualify it.


Iconicschmoobie t1_j0nxwii wrote

This is a common myth spread by racists. Single motherhood isn’t a huge problem and isn’t exclusively a black community problem. People just aren’t being forced into marriage for being pregnant anymore


theKtrain t1_j0o68ns wrote

Having half of the resources of a 2 parent household is a massive disadvantage (especially when you’re poor). Calling that perspective racist is laughable.


Iconicschmoobie t1_j0o6vgb wrote

I said the common myth that black families are missing their fathers is perpetuated by racists. In black communities there are plenty of nuclear families. I think you misinterpreted my comment.


theKtrain t1_j0o72dy wrote

Ah I see now. Still, the black community does have a higher rate of single-parent households. Its not that they are together but just not married, it’s that the dads aren’t in the house and may not be involved. It’s an issue.


Iconicschmoobie t1_j0oamho wrote

I’d have to see the stats they pull from. They’re saying over 50% of black kids don’t live with their biological fathers. Growing up it always seemed more of an economic/education issue. My black family doesn’t have this issue, most of the people I knew in middle class families did not have this issue. It also only states biological fathers and not step fathers or uncles acting as a father figure. Black and Latin families tend to have multiple generations in the same household or neighborhood. It’s culturally different from white Americans. I don’t think numbers will show that.

I just dislike when people act as if the absence of black fathers and father figures are a raging epidemic. I’ve had people assume I didn’t have a father and it’s weird


theKtrain t1_j0ocot0 wrote

Anecdotally just through relationships on sports teams or whatever, I’ve seen the rate be way higher for my black peers compared to their white counterparts. This is just one source but every time I’ve looked it up, it’s basically the same numbers.

The stats don’t show generational or family help, which does help, but even that isn’t a total replacement for a kids father being involved in their life and supporting them.

Of course some kids are raised by a single parent and turn out great and I’m definitely not saying it’s impossible, but overall if you take a hundred kids with 2 involved parents and see how they perform compared to hundred kids from a 1 parent home, the kids with 2 parents are going to do better overall. It’s simply a disadvantage.

More money to provide for better things/opportunities, more parental guidance to help a kid find their way, more time to be involved in their life, having a role model, etc.

All of this stuff is compounded when the single parent is poor, and the black community is generally poorer and it just makes it even harder for them.


Avalanche2 t1_j0oagw3 wrote

Broken down by race, however, the
statistics show stark differences.  The percentage of White children
under 18 who live with both parents almost doubles that of Black
children, according to the data. While 74.3 percent of all White
children below the age of 18 live with both parents, only 38.7 percent
of African-American minors can say the same.


ethervillage t1_j0lxz80 wrote

Wouldn’t this apply to everyone, regardless of race, creed, color, etc?


sharksandwich81 t1_j0nhn94 wrote

This study was specifically on black families in a metropolitan area with high racial disparity. They’re reporting the conclusion of THEIR study. Nobody (outside your imagination) is asserting that this is only true of black families and nobody else.


virtutesromanae t1_j0lly46 wrote

As opposed to the same behaviors in all other races.



uselesscalligraphy t1_j0m2eeg wrote

Who would've thought that not having a father would hurt black children ....


lumberjack_jeff t1_j0ln4wo wrote

Perhaps this is revelatory to the readers of the archives of women's mental health.

Less so to the rest of us.

Since the journal centers maternal mental health, for the rest of us, it seems intuitive that what is best for the development of their children is coincidentally, also best for moms own mental health.


sharksandwich81 t1_j0n0op6 wrote

Not every study needs to be “revelatory”. Just because something seems intuitive doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be studied.


lumberjack_jeff t1_j0nd13u wrote

The presence of a biological father in the household as a protective factor for children's development is long established. That study has been repeated many times... presumably due to skepticism of the prior conclusions.

I am unaware of any studies designed to ask if the presence of a biological mother in the household is of any developmental value to kids.

Apparently some questions are, in fact, too intuitive to study.

But to the point of this, I still find it surprising that a researcher was curious if a parent is happier when their child is thriving.


gracefull60 t1_j0mhuc0 wrote

>a protective role, promoting maternal mental health and wellbeing.


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ds61533 t1_j0o1hot wrote

The government mandated reddit posts are a little off today


Dizzy_Green t1_j0okaq5 wrote

Ah yes, turns out black people need support.

We did not understand before this that black people had mental health qualifications apparently.


amador9 t1_j0onbza wrote

I kept reading and waiting to hear how how all of these finding concerning Black families differ in any way from families of other racial groups. I have no background in the social sciences but it seems pretty obvious that you start with a study of all families from all backgrounds. This certainly provides a lot of information relevant to all families. It also sets a baseline that specific groups can be compared to. Without a baseline to compare, what is the point of the study anyway?

It could be argued that the readers of this article might only care about the issue as it pertains to Black people. The actual study may have covered the comparisons but whoever wrote the article didn’t think the readers were interested in the subject except to the extent that it effected Black people. That would seem to assume a deficit of critical thinking on the part of the reader. I wonder if the comparison was omitted deliberately to create the impression that this was a problem unique to Black mothers.