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AntonioPanadero t1_j67xeyt wrote

No wonder people want to kill themselves if they cant sleep.

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[deleted] t1_j68rm4n wrote

[removed]

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dachsj t1_j69ucml wrote

I agree that it's skewed, but it 100% correctly identified my obstructive sleep apnea. The CPAP is life changing.

I was starting to get anxious (was literally twitching) and felt like crap all the time. After the first night on my CPAP I knew I'd never go back (and I hated my first couple of masks).

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Laladelic t1_j6afe42 wrote

I sleep way worse with CPAP and I don't know what to do...

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dachsj t1_j6anhqm wrote

The only advice I can provide is: try as many masks /different set ups as you can.

I couldn't really handle the full face masks. I responded really well to nasal pillows. But I also found out I needed a head strap to keep my mouth from flapping open.

It was a lot of trial and error and after a year or so it's worth reassessing and seeing what's working and what isn't.

Make sure the pressure is tuned properly, that the humidity is set up for your environment, etc etc.

My sleep doc actually gave me low dose Ambien for the first couple of nights with my machine and again when I changed masks. It helped get over the sleep anxiety/hurdle of the new machine.

I can't sleep anywhere without it.

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10113r114m4 t1_j6cek4l wrote

Ive been trying so much to get used to my cpap. It's been 4 years, and I still yank it off after a few hours :(

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mE448nxC4E67 t1_j6aa2jv wrote

Unfortunately in the case of diagnosing sleep apnea, which is probably the most common reason for a sleep study, it doesn't really matter if the patient only gets a couple hours of crappy sleep as long as they can record the breathing disturbances.

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StolenErections t1_j6chmag wrote

The thing up your nose pissed me off so bad. I spent most of the night cursing that thing, rather than sleeping.

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southarmexpress t1_j6822xu wrote

I mean, debating suicide would tend to keep you up all night.

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robboelrobbo t1_j68bkmh wrote

Nah if you are lifelong suicidal they are just normal thoughts

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ultimoanodevida t1_j6914yw wrote

Lifelong suicidal here. They are indeed normal thoughts for me.

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No_Office_9301 t1_j69pjhd wrote

Seconded. It’s less common for me to have a day where I don’t think about it in at least some volume

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robboelrobbo t1_j6a19rd wrote

In fact I find it weird that some people don't think about it. I believe it's a normal part of the human existence to ponder suicide

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ATripletOfDucks t1_j6a4cwq wrote

I’m with you, but I have a friend who finds the concept literally inconceivable. (and they know what the word means)

I find it inconceivable that it could be inconceivable.

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No_Office_9301 t1_j6a239a wrote

I’ve had the exact same thoughts. Especially whenever I talk to people about this topic and they are just super concerned and confused as to why I’d think about it. It seems just so normal to me at this point

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robboelrobbo t1_j6a2rn8 wrote

I think that those people think about it too but it's too taboo of subject, or they supress the thoughts somehow, idk

I just had this conversation with my 80 year old uncle who claims to have never thought of suicide. But he's catholic, so it would be a heinous act to even admit it to himself

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firemogle t1_j696h3j wrote

When my tinnitus first started it was a loud beeping in both my ears and made it extremely difficult to sleep. I'm talking a few hours a night max, and even that was often interrupted by it.

Thankfully it just went to ringing within a week or two, but even that short time I knew that was not a situation I could live with.

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Wagamaga OP t1_j67xagj wrote

Sleep plays a critical role in mental health. And a new study led by University of Arizona researchers has found a link in sleep problems and suicidal thoughts and behaviors.

The study surveyed 885 people from May 2020 to May 2021. Forty-one percent of participants had thought about suicide in their lifetime.

The team then compared individuals with and without suicide ideation on different measures of sleep, such as duration, timing, insomnia, nightmares and depressive symptoms.

Lead author Michael Grandner with UA said working to improve sleep health can reduce the risk of suicide.

Suicide was in the top three leading causes of death for those aged 10-35 in 2020.

The study was published in the Journal of American College Health.

https://kjzz.org/content/1837252/study-sleep-problems-linked-suicidal-thoughts

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OGodIDontKnow t1_j68cu5m wrote

My wife is a clinical therapist specializing in trauma. Her first objectives for any client:

  1. Are they sleeping
  2. Tools for self care

Until those are in place it is very difficult to address any issues.

Sleep is important

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jnelsoni t1_j69r2c1 wrote

It’s really difficult for some people to sleep during severe depression. Some people sleep all the time. The sleepless part, in my experience, is usually caused by repetitive thoughts that can’t be turned off. Often that inner dialogue gets to be a debate about the merits of life versus the resolution and peace of nonexistence. It’s a really horrible problem to have insomnia as the most prominent depressive symptom. I’d much prefer the sleeping all the time version. Your wife is wise to have sleep as the first question.
I guess I wanted to say that it’s not necessarily poor sleep hygiene that causes depression, but that depression can be the primary cause of insomnia. In either case, insomnia is a dangerous accelerant, and if someone is dealing with that kind of depressed insomnia, it’s time to get some help, fast.

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eldenrim t1_j6fcy06 wrote

Just in case you didn't know, sleep disordered breathing can cause insomnia and depression, and unless you've had a test for both sleep apnea and UARS, you can't rule it out.

Me and my partner both have UARS. We pass sleep apnea tests. I oversleep and my partner has incredibly bad insomnia.

Worth looking into!

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jnelsoni t1_j6fdxmv wrote

It definitely is! I know my mom uses one of those machines at night and had to go through observed sleep studies. I wonder if they have a home monitor for diagnosis. I’m trying to imagine doing one in a hospital setting and them getting frustrated ( and me going broke) after I still haven’t fallen asleep after 2 days. I will definitely ask about it. I’m trying a therapist when I get back to the states and focusing on CBT for sleep hygiene and whatnot. I’m not sure how that’s going to work, but I have a sleep-log to start keeping track. Thanks!

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unaccomplished420 t1_j685ims wrote

When I read that all i can think about is homeless people. It's a sad sad world we live in.

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murfmurf123 t1_j69ocik wrote

You arent wrong. Ive winter camped for long periods when I was not doing so well financially, and just 1 one week without heat feels like a month. I was haggard and exhausted every morning, and when I finally made it into a heated residence, would sleep for a full 12-20 hrs

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Fromnowhere2nowhere t1_j68jnxs wrote

Not to diminish what you’ve said but, from the abstract of the article, the results really need to be situated among the studied population (university students 18–25), and the predictive value of insomnia for suicidality disappears when covariates are accounted for. Both of those seem like major things to note, especially if you’re measuring “lifetime” suicidality (and everyone is, at most, a very young adult).

Separately, the abstract says that 97/885 of these undergraduates had actually attempted suicide in their lives. Does anyone know if this matches up with other findings regarding suicide attempts—10% seems really high to me.

Finally, the data for these studies were collected at the height of Covid. I wonder whether this was accounted for, considering insomnia rates were probably affected during this collective trauma we all experienced.

Here’s the abstract from the article:

> Objective: To evaluate sleep continuity, timing, quality, and disorder in relation to suicidal ideation and attempts among college students.

> Participants: Eight hundred eighty-five undergraduates aged 18–25 in the southwestern United States.

> Methods: Participants completed questionnaires on sleep, suicide risk, mental health, and substance use. Differences in sleep variables were compared by lifetime and recent suicidal ideation and suicide attempts using covariate-adjusted and stepwise regression models.

> Results: A total of 363 (40.1%) individuals reported lifetime suicidal ideation, of whom 172 (19.4%) reported suicidal ideation in the last 3 months and 97 (26.7%) had attempted suicide in their lifetime. Sleep disturbances were prevalent among those with lifetime suicidal ideation or a lifetime suicide attempt. Insomnia was identified as the best predictor of recent suicidal ideation, but this relationship did not survive adjustment for covariates.

> Conclusions: Sleep continuity, quality, and sleep disorders are broadly associated with suicidal thoughts and behaviors among college students.

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Adventurous-Quote180 t1_j69m25v wrote

Also dont forget that one of the symptoms of depression is problems with falling asleep or waking up at night. When my depression (caused by cptsd, but that was unknown at that time) was beginning i werent able to sleep through the night for months. Only after getting on meds have my sleep normalized.

So im not sure if sleep problems cause suicide, or just both are caused by depression. Correlation isnt causality, you know.

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Distinct_Comedian872 t1_j69qbyv wrote

If you don't mind me asking, what meds?
(Froma fellow cptsd who has tried many meds.)

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Adventurous-Quote180 t1_j6a3wns wrote

It was sertraline. To be honest, it was the first (and only) medication i ever tried. It helped a lot at that time. I only took it for 9 months tho. I didnt really solved my cptsd, but my depression symptoms disappered for a while. Next time my depression come back i didnt take any meds. I was kind of too depressed to go to a psychiacrist. I somehow get out of it eventually, but my cptsd symtoms still remained. I mostly dealt with them with therapy (CBT, which i know usually isnt working for cptsd, but for me it was really helpful. I later took part in DBT too. I also read a lot of books on mental health and psychology, so i was basically applying some DBT/CBT techniques long before the first time i took part in therapy) and lifestyle changes. Recently i also was diagnosed with ADHD, so now i took a medication for that.

Now im mostly good, but cptsd still has some effects on me. But applying CBT/DBT techniques constantly (with the help of journaling), still reading books on the topics, and trying to apply healthy lifestyle changes im slowly getting even before.

I also took part part in "unofficial" ketamine/lsd/mdma therapies throughout the years.

This is my 10 year story with mental health.

I dont know i wrote all of that, sorry :D i just wanted to say that i dont think that there i one magical med that solves the problem

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Distinct_Comedian872 t1_j6bfrv4 wrote

No sorries. Thanks for writing it!
I felt similar. Tried meds, depression dissappear, but was left with pure apathy.
I've been doing a twice weekly DBT since. The results are palpable.

(I'd love if you could share any of the readings/things you find helpful.)

There for sure is not a make it all better pull. Most research shows therapy is more beneficial than meds for PTSD.
(Best results are meds + therapy.)

A very sincere thank you for sharing.

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Fromnowhere2nowhere t1_j6ic3sh wrote

If DBT speaks to you, you may want to look into ACT. It’s related to CBT and DBT, but less focused on reforming problematic thoughts/feelings and more focused on living a valued life irrespective of the problematic thoughts/feelings.

Russ Harris is great at making ACT palatable to a general audience. Check out some of his YouTube videos (https://thehappinesstrap.com/free-resources/ ) or the just-released updated edition his The Happiness Trap book.

There’s also a DIY workbook that is truly excellent at helping with this stuff, called Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life. Highly recommend it.

Hope some of this helps!

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tornpentacle t1_j697whr wrote

10% is really high, that's kinda the point they're making. There is a correlation. It can be used as a predictive tool. That's 20x higher than lifetime adult suicide attempts.

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Fromnowhere2nowhere t1_j69ke8z wrote

I think you may be misreading the data. What they found, as far as I can tell, was 10% prevalence in suicide attempts by all participants, not just those with insomnia. (Among those with insomnia, the percent was much higher.)

My point is to question whether they started with a representative sample of students, if 10% of the general sample (before accounting for insomnia) had attempted suicide.

… I wish I had access to the full article and not just the abstract! Makes it hard to understand what exactly the data are saying.

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theedgeofoblivious t1_j67xcw2 wrote

People with negative thoughts have trouble sleeping.

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rich1051414 t1_j681t0x wrote

I think it is both, as someone who sometimes suffers from insomnia, the depression comes after the sleep disruption, not before, however, I can also see how depression can also cause sleep disruption, especially if coupled with feelings of 'new day dread'. I don't know if there is an actual word for this feeling, but it's one of hopelessness, and not going to sleep is a way to stop yourself from feeling it.

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RemakeSWBattlefont t1_j68elfe wrote

For me with deep depression it the opposite. I can sleep just fine, but for the life of me i can't sleep past at latest 4:30 after crashing out at 9. Most of the time its somewhere between midnight at 3 am though. Then what TF do i have to do? I just sit there in the dark shower running contemplating how much i hate this life.

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Morlaix t1_j67z2le wrote

And people with trouble sleeping get negative thoughts

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Gathorall t1_j67yfds wrote

Trying to sleep is incompatible with significant distraction, so it is hard to escape those thoughts particularly at that time.

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theedgeofoblivious t1_j67z1c7 wrote

Yeah, I'm speaking from experience.

When I'm sitting there thinking about how horrible I perceive the world to be, I'm having trouble sleeping.

The way the article is presented, it's presupposing that the sleep disturbances cause the negative thoughts, whereas for me, the negative thoughts always seem to be causing the sleep disturbances.

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Intelligent-Mud2551 t1_j684c8b wrote

Makes sense. Just the other day I was laying in bed after not sleeping, thinking “y’know… if I hang myself right now, I won’t have to go to work today!”

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AllanfromWales1 t1_j684vrd wrote

One way to sort out which way the causation lies would be to look at people with obstructive sleep apnea - a sleep disorder with a medical cause not obviously related to depression or suicidal ideation - and see whether they are more prone to depressive/suicidal thoughts.

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-downtone_ t1_j68adep wrote

This is also my thought. I have RBD and do not have depression. It's a medical issue due to low GABA. These may be sleep disorders related to psychological problems.

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AllanfromWales1 t1_j68b169 wrote

I've been using a CPAP every night for the last 25+ years, and still wake up about five times a night. I deal with it by spending longer in bed, which is a pain but worth it. I'm not depressed.

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-downtone_ t1_j68bngw wrote

Glad to hear the CPAP is helping you. I tried it and still had the RBD. I made a quick gif to show my sleep behavior so people can see how crazy it is: https://imgur.com/gallery/qSYqDvN . I get injured from this all the time and it happens many many times per night. I usually can't sleep through it so barely sleep.

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AllanfromWales1 t1_j68cio3 wrote

I went to a sleep lab when I first noticed problems (like falling asleep on the motorway/freeway) and they found I was on average waking up once every three minutes. Not good. CPAP definitely helps me - I find the best way is to use nasal pads rather than a full mask, and to sleep with the covers over my head and with my face down in the pillow (which you can do with an external air supply).

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wHDpVQjPu9Dkgk4FwN5T t1_j68ahtt wrote

Anyone with a chronic disease has more of a tendency to suicide. Maybe connecting a lack of suicides to narcolepsy would lead to anything, but honestly, the question would be what came first, lack of sleep or depression. And that is impossible to answer.

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forteofsilver t1_j67y74k wrote

everyday I see like five articles with dipshit titles posted on here.

did you know researchers have found a link between drinking water and living? did you know if you are depressed you might have trouble sleeping and lack of sleep can make you depressed??

oh my god who knew

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sharksandwich81 t1_j692tqt wrote

Everyday I see like 100 idiots just commenting on the headline without reading the article.

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yallxtrippin t1_j699ph9 wrote

Yes but if you read the article they apply the scientific method (or attempt to) and solve the issue.

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butnobodycame123 t1_j69xgd0 wrote

We need studies and experiments to validate the "obvious". Without evidence, it's just faith, and science isn't religion.

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Avantasian538 t1_j686txf wrote

Did you know that people with sociopathy tend to do bad things?

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Avantasian538 t1_j686zpf wrote

Interestingly, Ive found that mild sleep deprivation makes me feel better mentally. It puts me in a better mood than I usually am in. But severe sleep deprivation reverses this and makes me feel like crap.

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yallxtrippin t1_j699igw wrote

Mania is not a "better mood" it's the bi part of bipolar.

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Ignorant_Ismail t1_j68vdei wrote

The study included 885 undergraduate students aged 18-25 in the southwestern United States. The participants completed questionnaires on sleep, suicide risk, mental health, and substance use. The results showed that 40.1% of individuals reported lifetime suicidal ideation, with 19.4% reporting suicidal ideation in the last 3 months and 26.7% having attempted suicide in their lifetime. The study also found that sleep disturbances were prevalent among those with lifetime suicidal ideation or a lifetime suicide attempt. Insomnia was identified as the best predictor of recent suicidal ideation, but this relationship did not survive adjustment for other factors. The study concluded that sleep continuity, quality, and sleep disorders are broadly associated with suicidal thoughts and behaviors among college students.

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perriewinkles t1_j6axk09 wrote

I’d be interested to know if alternatives to typical sleep advice might be considered more, specifically for an insomniac with major depression/suicidal ideation. Personally have found the “turn everything off and just wait it out” type approach to be really bad for me. I still don’t sleep and my mental health gets much worse. Instead I’ve learned to do something that occupies and distracts my mind if possible (art or reading primarily) until my body finally just shuts down. It can take a long time but with depression, to me, it’s preferable. I just wonder if a more unique approach should be considered with all patients who have a specific combo of severe insomnia with mental illness.

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redditushka t1_j69zuez wrote

good for them... and i just wanna die...

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dla3253 t1_j6a42hu wrote

My sleep quality has been going down for years, and wouldn't ya know it, so has my mental health and desire to live.

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RiotingMoon t1_j6a8t9u wrote

ah my insomnia and suicidal ideation two peas in a I JUST WANT SOME GOD DAMN SLEEP pod

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TheTiniestPeach t1_j686t6e wrote

Is this why psychosocial therapy focuses so hard on fixing and improving sleep?

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shutz2 t1_j6a10bj wrote

What's a "lifetime suicide attempt"?

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therankin t1_j6a3s7n wrote

What is "a lifetime suicide attempt"?

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KodakStele t1_j6aq8pj wrote

What is lifetime suicidal ideation?

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dingus_nation t1_j6b1gqp wrote

But which came first, the suicidal thoughts or the sleeping problems? Suicidal thoughts makes it hard for me to sleep

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gagrushenka t1_j6bk4dy wrote

I have BPD and the only medication that I'm regularly prescribed is melatonin. When my sleep is bad, I start to spiral and I get so unwell that I can't effectively engage in therapy. The worse I get, the worse I sleep. Sorting my sleep out is always the first step we (me and my doctor and shrink) take towards getting better.

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ThePubRelic t1_j6burd8 wrote

Dogs keeping me up for two years randomly at night but consistent in happening each day brought me to my first attempt. Don't let your dogs keep people awake.

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dumnezero t1_j6hkce0 wrote

The /r/2meirl4meirl user base

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Gloworm02 t1_j68u5mn wrote

Well ok… how do I fix this?

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Idle_Skies t1_j68v5gr wrote

When you’re tired of everything, you’re tired of everything.

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TheBeardedQuack t1_j68jplv wrote

There's been quite a lot of these posts lately with "sleep linked to mental health", "Friends linked up mental health", "excessive alcohol use linked to mental health"...

Am I the only one thinking "well yeah.. is this new"?

−1

OneLostOstrich t1_j69wewn wrote

Researchers have* found

He has
she has
it has
they have
you have
we have

That's how it works in English.

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Dannysmartful t1_j68bakw wrote

So pet owners are more likely to be suicidal?

Cats with the late night zoomies, dogs with diarrhea, what about children???

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Artful_Dodger29 t1_j6929ik wrote

Hope they didn’t spend millions to prove something as obvious as this

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