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Fromnowhere2nowhere t1_j68jnxs wrote

Reply to comment by Wagamaga in Researchers has found a link in sleep problems and suicidal thoughts and behaviors. A study found sleep disturbances were prevalent among those with lifetime suicidal ideation or a lifetime suicide attempt. by Wagamaga

Not to diminish what you’ve said but, from the abstract of the article, the results really need to be situated among the studied population (university students 18–25), and the predictive value of insomnia for suicidality disappears when covariates are accounted for. Both of those seem like major things to note, especially if you’re measuring “lifetime” suicidality (and everyone is, at most, a very young adult).

Separately, the abstract says that 97/885 of these undergraduates had actually attempted suicide in their lives. Does anyone know if this matches up with other findings regarding suicide attempts—10% seems really high to me.

Finally, the data for these studies were collected at the height of Covid. I wonder whether this was accounted for, considering insomnia rates were probably affected during this collective trauma we all experienced.

Here’s the abstract from the article:

> Objective: To evaluate sleep continuity, timing, quality, and disorder in relation to suicidal ideation and attempts among college students.

> Participants: Eight hundred eighty-five undergraduates aged 18–25 in the southwestern United States.

> Methods: Participants completed questionnaires on sleep, suicide risk, mental health, and substance use. Differences in sleep variables were compared by lifetime and recent suicidal ideation and suicide attempts using covariate-adjusted and stepwise regression models.

> Results: A total of 363 (40.1%) individuals reported lifetime suicidal ideation, of whom 172 (19.4%) reported suicidal ideation in the last 3 months and 97 (26.7%) had attempted suicide in their lifetime. Sleep disturbances were prevalent among those with lifetime suicidal ideation or a lifetime suicide attempt. Insomnia was identified as the best predictor of recent suicidal ideation, but this relationship did not survive adjustment for covariates.

> Conclusions: Sleep continuity, quality, and sleep disorders are broadly associated with suicidal thoughts and behaviors among college students.

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Adventurous-Quote180 t1_j69m25v wrote

Also dont forget that one of the symptoms of depression is problems with falling asleep or waking up at night. When my depression (caused by cptsd, but that was unknown at that time) was beginning i werent able to sleep through the night for months. Only after getting on meds have my sleep normalized.

So im not sure if sleep problems cause suicide, or just both are caused by depression. Correlation isnt causality, you know.

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Distinct_Comedian872 t1_j69qbyv wrote

If you don't mind me asking, what meds?
(Froma fellow cptsd who has tried many meds.)

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Adventurous-Quote180 t1_j6a3wns wrote

It was sertraline. To be honest, it was the first (and only) medication i ever tried. It helped a lot at that time. I only took it for 9 months tho. I didnt really solved my cptsd, but my depression symptoms disappered for a while. Next time my depression come back i didnt take any meds. I was kind of too depressed to go to a psychiacrist. I somehow get out of it eventually, but my cptsd symtoms still remained. I mostly dealt with them with therapy (CBT, which i know usually isnt working for cptsd, but for me it was really helpful. I later took part in DBT too. I also read a lot of books on mental health and psychology, so i was basically applying some DBT/CBT techniques long before the first time i took part in therapy) and lifestyle changes. Recently i also was diagnosed with ADHD, so now i took a medication for that.

Now im mostly good, but cptsd still has some effects on me. But applying CBT/DBT techniques constantly (with the help of journaling), still reading books on the topics, and trying to apply healthy lifestyle changes im slowly getting even before.

I also took part part in "unofficial" ketamine/lsd/mdma therapies throughout the years.

This is my 10 year story with mental health.

I dont know i wrote all of that, sorry :D i just wanted to say that i dont think that there i one magical med that solves the problem

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Distinct_Comedian872 t1_j6bfrv4 wrote

No sorries. Thanks for writing it!
I felt similar. Tried meds, depression dissappear, but was left with pure apathy.
I've been doing a twice weekly DBT since. The results are palpable.

(I'd love if you could share any of the readings/things you find helpful.)

There for sure is not a make it all better pull. Most research shows therapy is more beneficial than meds for PTSD.
(Best results are meds + therapy.)

A very sincere thank you for sharing.

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Fromnowhere2nowhere t1_j6ic3sh wrote

If DBT speaks to you, you may want to look into ACT. It’s related to CBT and DBT, but less focused on reforming problematic thoughts/feelings and more focused on living a valued life irrespective of the problematic thoughts/feelings.

Russ Harris is great at making ACT palatable to a general audience. Check out some of his YouTube videos (https://thehappinesstrap.com/free-resources/ ) or the just-released updated edition his The Happiness Trap book.

There’s also a DIY workbook that is truly excellent at helping with this stuff, called Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life. Highly recommend it.

Hope some of this helps!

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tornpentacle t1_j697whr wrote

10% is really high, that's kinda the point they're making. There is a correlation. It can be used as a predictive tool. That's 20x higher than lifetime adult suicide attempts.

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Fromnowhere2nowhere t1_j69ke8z wrote

I think you may be misreading the data. What they found, as far as I can tell, was 10% prevalence in suicide attempts by all participants, not just those with insomnia. (Among those with insomnia, the percent was much higher.)

My point is to question whether they started with a representative sample of students, if 10% of the general sample (before accounting for insomnia) had attempted suicide.

… I wish I had access to the full article and not just the abstract! Makes it hard to understand what exactly the data are saying.

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