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Thin-Swordfish4463 t1_j2jl6x7 wrote

This title is realy poorly written


tornpentacle t1_j2kegxi wrote

OP is not a native English speaker, most of his titles end up weird like that. Usually he writes "researches" but it looks like he figured out the difference :-)


Buenasman t1_j2laxhm wrote

Yeah first thing I thought was I have no clue what was said.


Forthac t1_j2k54rt wrote

This sounds a lot like Somatogravic and Somatogyral Illusions.

> When sensory stimulation from the angular motion of the head and of the aircraft occur simultaneously in two different planes - for example interrupting looking ahead to look up to an overhead panel whilst the aircraft is also in angular motion.


CaptLakeEffect t1_j2la30r wrote

Yep, those illusions have killed a lot of pilots driving the plane down into the ground thinking they were about to stall or vice versa. Move your head quickly after rotating on a 0/0 takeoff and take your eyes off the gauges and you’ll bet your life on the wrong direction of travel of where the plane is going.


PresentationJumpy101 t1_j2qfkft wrote

Amazon prime 767 crash excellent example, on video too.

The approach was stable but the FO sensed a stall and pushed the nose down into the Everglades


singularineet t1_j2nopxn wrote

Came to post this. It is a well known and studied phenomenon. There's even a Bayesian explanation, from like fifteen years ago.


wi_voter t1_j2k1rl9 wrote

I have never heard of the term "body pitch". What is it referring to? Is it the angle someone leans because they are on an incline?


black_brook t1_j2lg62t wrote

Pitch, yaw, and roll, are the terms used for the 3 different possible rotational motions in 3d space. They are used in aeronautics and I expect other disciplines where these are important. Pitch is the motion your head makes if you nod it.


peanutbutterwife t1_j2l1gin wrote

More or less. It's more like knowing where your head and body are in relation to the surfaces you are interacting with, i.e. the floor and the walls.

Want to test how good yours is? Take a thick cushion off of a chair or couch. Place it on the floor, far away from things, in case you fall over during the test. Now, stand on it, with your feet almost shoulder-width apart. Close your eyes. And just stand there. Feel how much your body has to react to the non-stable surface, without visual cues. Don't hold onto anything and don't put your arms out to balance yourself.

This was one of the tests they made me do for my diagnosis. My wobble was "extensive enough to warrant further testing". A bit of wobble is normal. I almost fell off the cushion thing, twice. That test was less than 60 seconds.

It's best if you have someone to watch you so they can document how much you wobble. Preferably, a physical therapist or neurologist who knows about equilibrium problems.


wi_voter t1_j2l2n3k wrote

I am a physical therapist but haven't ever heard it called that.


_tropical_tundra_ t1_j2l7xd4 wrote

What is it usually called?


wi_voter t1_j2ldui7 wrote

We simply refer to it as LOB, loss of balance and the attempt to regain midline either balance or equilibrium reaction. I can see how the term pitch could fit the action of being displaced.

In this study it doesn't seem like a sudden unexpected change in displacement but a response to the incline which we'd usually call a righting reaction, assuming that is what they mean by pitch in the study. Trying to confirm so I know I'm understanding it correctly.

edit: rereading it I believe by body pitch they mean the extent the person is leaning backwards so their head/upper body is posterior to the vertical axis. That would make sense since they used the dental chair to create "pitch" without movement.


_tropical_tundra_ t1_j2ledky wrote

Thanks! TIL!


wi_voter t1_j2lfks6 wrote

I added this edit if you didn't see it:

rereading it I believe by body pitch they mean the extent the person is leaning backwards so their head/upper body is posterior to the vertical axis. That would make sense since they used the dental chair to create "pitch" without movement.


rawuncutdope t1_j2l2f56 wrote

What were you diagnosed with?


peanutbutterwife t1_j2lllza wrote

Meniere's disease, early diagnosis due to debilitating migraines


WhiskeySpaceBear t1_j2ngz3l wrote

Maybe, menieres disease is over diagnosed at a rate of ~10x. If you suffer from migraines and dizziness, research "vestibular migraines"


eliseannette t1_j2mzqj7 wrote

I wondered the same thing. In terms of our body on inclines. Was hoping for a hack to improve my skiing on black diamond runs. .It's crazy how steep the runs are and you have no idea until you look uphill to gain some perspective of the grade percentage or slope during the decent. Photos I've taken illustrate some scarey angles.


wi_voter t1_j2n3ub3 wrote

I think this study was dependent on people reclining back as they are going up the incline. Without head support I wonder how many people stay completely reclined or "pitched" backwards. There is a natural reaction to want to right your head unless supported.

Skiing is interesting because it is actually the opposite. There is a decline while you are leaning forward with your upper body. However, with that lean forward you are still lined up over your base of support because of the flexion in your legs. In the experiment the upper body is out of that alignment over the lower body.

It would be interesting to have them use the vertical pole with skiers and see what the results are. I am guessing they would still be accurate but who knows.


eliseannette t1_j2n6plh wrote

Thank you for that perspective. You make a good point about the decline and leaning forward. Physics keeps us from toppling over, but it's quite a steep line on the descent.


wi_voter t1_j2n99bw wrote

Your pelvis, relatively the center of mass, moving backwards and lower really balances you on the slopes. The leaning forward with the upper body is already coming from a posterior position.

I love watching skiers especially on moguls. I used to ski myself until I moved to Wisconsin. The little bunny hills aren't worth the lift line.


eliseannette t1_j2nahte wrote

I thought ur comments sounded like they were coming from a skier. Mogel skiers have some skillz. Fun to watch. I'm from Michigan iriginally.....I get it


wi_voter t1_j2niyi3 wrote

Part from skier, part from being a physical therapist fascinated with biomechanics


eliseannette t1_j2nr5lz wrote

I also detected your science brain and smarts. Which I failed to mention.


colcob t1_j2k9oe7 wrote

I’m going to guess this might explain why those posters on the escalators to the London Underground never look vertical ( although I think it’s more likely a visual effect caused by the adjacent diagonal lines)


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wi_voter t1_j2mps3u wrote

I am intrigued by this study so back to comment again. I would think being able to position something vertically is related to our sense of gravity. Gravity is the one constant we all have in our sensorimotor development so it is interesting to find a set of circumstances where it is skewed. Also, noted that in the dental chair the head is supported while on the tram it is not. Wonder if that makes a difference.

My thoughts on where this is applicable is with children with significant motor development who are in wheelchairs, often reclined and are then pushed by others. Or those that can use a power chair but are in slightly reclined position. They may be better off if they can tolerate a more upright position (maybe a new health insurance justification for more therapy). They would be in this circumstance longer than someone on a tram, usually a whole school day once they are school age. I wonder if there is a lasting impact on their relationship/experience of gravity and the vertical.

Anyway, just some thoughts I had. Thanks for posting the study.


genuinely_insincere t1_j2nbe34 wrote

ooh i really love this one, actually a new concept to me for once, and an interesting one